Author Topic: Fire Lapping??  (Read 1386 times)

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Offline Bearcat 74

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Fire Lapping??
« on: July 18, 2010, 04:16:52 AM »
Guys when shoot my cast loads I am getting some leading from the forcing cone through about the first inch of the barrel, from pushing a patch through it is tighter there I am assuming from threading the barrel. Would this be a good candiate for fire lapping? If so would you guys recommend the Tubb system of bullets, jacketed with compound on them or the Beartooth system of soft cast with compound on them??


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Offline jimster

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Re: Fire Lapping??
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2010, 06:51:31 AM »
I have never tried fire lapping, but my brother claims good results using the Beartooth system on a lever action to get a tight spot out.  He said it involved some time and effort, but says it was well worth the trouble, it took the tight spot out of his bore just like it was supposed to.  I don't know which method is better.  He slugged the bore before and after, says there was a big difference after he was done, even on how the slugging felt when he pushed it through the bore after fire lapping.


Offline nicholst55

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Re: Fire Lapping??
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2010, 05:00:00 PM »
Either fire-lapping or Taylor Throating would solve your problem; Veral Smith at LBT offers an excellent kit to do this.  You can get his e-mail and contact info down below in the Reloading section.


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Offline saddlebum

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Re: Fire Lapping??
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2010, 05:54:58 PM »
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,194617.0.html

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,98059.0.html

http://www.lbtmoulds.com/orderform.shtml

I tried to find the post where Veral Smith advises against the jacketed bullet version of fire lapping, but I got weary of looking.

Email him at;  LBTisAccuracy@localnet.com

Or you can ask Veral at;  http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/board,114.0.html
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Offline painted horse

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Re: Fire Lapping??
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2010, 02:05:50 PM »
I've used Beartooths lapping system on 3 stainless vaqueros, 2 blued vaqueros, one stainless Redhawk, one stainless Bisley Blackhawk and one Puma mdl 92 rifle. All these were in 45 colt and I also bored the cylinders to .4525 on all at the same time.(except the rifle of course.) There was a major accuracy improvement in all, especially for the Puma and leading has all but disappeared.  Go to Beartooth website theres an article I beleive under tech notes on how to lap a barrel in like 36 rounds. This is the method I used on the last two (Redhawk and Bisley). Just follow the instructions, it's a little time consuming but the results were well worth it to me..

Offline 44 Man

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Re: Fire Lapping??
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2010, 02:49:20 PM »
I don't believe you need to firelap.  What you are experiencing is too hard a lead alloy for the load you are shooting.  When that happens, the hard lead does not upset enough to seal the gasses and it melts lead in the forcing cone.  You need a heavier load for the bullets you are shooting.  They need more pressure to upset and seal the barrel as they start down the bore.  When you have leading at the muzzle end of the barrel, that's from too soft an alloy for the load you are getting.  All this is fasinating stuff from Dave Scoville's book 'Shooting the Colt Single Action Army'.  It has a gold mine of info in there that every cast bullet handgunner should read!  Best book I have bought and I sit down and re-read it at least once a year.  I used to think that the hardest lead alloy possible was the best solution to all problems.  I was wrong, you need to match the alloy to the load.  44 Man
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: Fire Lapping??
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2010, 05:55:31 AM »
+1 that, 44.....and matching your bullet diameter to the cylinder throat/fire-formed case neck ID, which, hopefully, is at least as large as your barrel groove dia.  The jury is in, undersized bullets will lead, aint no doubt.
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Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Fire Lapping??
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2010, 01:39:43 AM »
my thoughts run with 44mans but with a twist. I dont think its your alloy i think your throats may be a bit tight. I can run even lineotype at low velocity in a gun that is at proper dimentions. Most of the time leading like your getting is either for throats to constrictive or an alignment problem between the bore and the cylinder. Now im not going to say that using a softer alloy wont help, it probably will but its just putting a bandaid on a slit throat. As to firelapping ive had pretty good results with it. Ive never seen a gun that shot worse afterward and some did quite a bit better.
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Offline dbriannelson

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Re: Fire Lapping??
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2010, 05:48:21 PM »
I have a newish S&W Model 21 that leaded furiously.  I was using the same bullets as I use for .44 Magnum in a couple of 629s that hardly leaded at all and what there was of it would come out with a few brush strokes.  Inspecting the bore, it looked like it had been rifled with a tool made from a broken nail file.  The forcing cone was actually stepped!  And the throats measured correctly for jacketed, but not for lead, bullets.

First off I ordered a throat reamer from Brownells in the right diameter and opened them up a tad. I did not hone the throats.  The result was less build-up in the throats and perhaps a little less in the cone.  I had also ordered a forcing cone reamer, but if I were to use it, the length of the cone would be pretty long, so I let that go.

I did buy some of those hot lapping bullets in the range of grades and followed the directions, loading slow, cleaning thoroughly between grade changes, etc.  The results of that were a nice shiny bore that looked as if it had been originally cut with a broken nail file.  But now shiny!  And lead didn't stick nearly as hard.  

It still leads, but not so bad.  I've never found a combination of revolver and lead bullet that doesn't lead.  I have found some that are better or worse and some that clean easier.  The old wisdom of going harder to prevent leading has been replaced with the opposite.  If you cast your own, experiment.  The other thing I found is that despite any advice you might hear about using nylon brushes instead of bronze, the time you waste using nylon and gallons of solvent and muscle is worth saving even if you have to get a new barrel at 50,000 rounds instead of 100,000 rounds.  But I'm never gonna get to 50,000 rounds on any of my handguns anyway.  (Nylon might be better for match rifles.  Those shooters have all kinds of superstitions, and some of those may actually have merit.)

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Offline sgtt

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Re: Fire Lapping??
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2010, 02:59:51 AM »
I don't think it would hurt.
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Offline Bearcat 74

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Re: Fire Lapping??
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2010, 04:56:55 PM »
My throats measure around .4325" and my bullets are .432 with a hardness of 12.