gun industry----what the hell is going on?

[mk454]

My cuz and I were talking over thanksgiving and really were just noting that most of the people that own gunshops have the personality of a rusty can (with sharp edges)  Why is that?  I go spend a few thousand of my hard earned dollars in a shop and I send a friend in to get a deal and when I go in with him they try and screw him.  So I called a bud of mine that lives 1500 miles away and he says the same thing.  I'm hoping it's just the area I'm in but something tells me it's not.  If any of you have a good shop let me know.  Even if it's across the country it'd do me a world of good to know that there are in fact good businessmen in the firearms industry.  I've yet to get any of the shop owners in town to understand that they're better off making 20% off 3 guns than 40% once.  (just for example)  Instead I have to get irritated and play each store against the other in a price war.  I have common sense and business sense.  These tactics work in every other industry.  Why don't they get it.  On another note--why doesn't guns and ammo magazine (among others as well) understand that we know that there are guns that don't deserve a four star rating----yet I've never seen honest criticism in the rag.  Don't subscribe anymore.  Oh yeah, please don't ever write another article on why the .270 is the best.  Goodnight.

[daddywpb]

I am lucky to have a small 'old timey' gun store in town. It's small, but has a ton of stuff packed in there, some of it stacked on the floor. The owner is both knowledgable, and a nice guy. There are a couple chairs, and there are always guys sitting sround talking guns, and anyone is welcome to join in. Obviously he can't beat prices from the chain stores, but I's gladly pay an extra $20 or so, and soak up the atmosphere. He has a large and loyal customer base, and I hope he'll be around for a long time.
We also have a few of the kind of stores you described. We have an indoor range close to here, and the people there are a--holes. They complain that people come to shoot, but don't 'support' the store. Well, duh! I shoot there too, but I wouldn't buy targets, ammo, or anything else from those idiots.
I'm sorry to say that I think the days of the old time gun shop is almost over for good.

[Redhawk1]

Well, don't feel bad. I have a gun shop I went to and I spent over $20,000 there on guns. I thought the owner and I were friends. Well, it turns out if I bought a gun at another shop he would give me grief. He always would call me a trader for buying at other shops. I told him I was very impulsive and if I see something that I want I get it. He was not personable when I first went to his shop but I thought I would help out the local gun shop. He is very short with the costumers and never has anything nice to say to anyone. Now his wife is very nice and treated everyone very well. But we do have 3 other gun shops in the area and they are a lot friendlier. That is where I go now. There are a couple of more shops about an hour away that are good also. But one good note about the guy that treats he costumers bad, his landlord will not renew his lease and will be closing very soon. I say good buy with a smile.

[JD HHI 6092®]

Best gun shops I ever went to were the one's I frequented while I lived in Anchorage.  I live in Virginia now and stopped by one.  I was browsing at there pistols then noticed they had some good prices on powder.  I was in there for almost 15 minutes with out anyone waiting on me, took my business elsewhere.  I was told of one called Clark Brothers in Warrenton, Virginia.  It's about 30 miles away but well worth the trip.  As soon as you walk in you get a, "HOW CAN I HELP YOU"?

[jamie]

Well I used to drive over 2 hrs to a gun shop before I came to Germany.  We had 2 local shops, one was a smal shop owned by a older gent who knew everything there was to know and everyone who walked through door was an idiot and on top of that his prices were the most I had seen anywhere.  The other was ran by a younger version of the same guy.   So now when I am home I go to ATP gun shop in S.C.  One of the people (owner I believe) spent about 30 min giong over different powders with me for my 06, always nice and pleasant, yep even they are telling you you are wrong.

[Graybeard]

I do pretty much ALL of my business with the Sportsman's Exchange in Gadsden, AL. Steve Andrew is the owner.

I deal personally with Steve on all of my deals and the staff know it. They don't even bother me when I come in just tell me if Steve is or isn't in. Steve is a competition skeet and sporting clays shooter and hunter. He is very knowledgeable of guns and prices. His second in command Kenny is a hunter and part time guide during our Bama hunting season. There are several other employees also available in the store as it is a big operation with a huge inventory.

Steve accepts guns for me at NO CHARGE if I buy one from out of state or when the manufacturers ship guns to me for product reviews. He also ships for me at actual cost of shipping when I need to return one to a manufacturer or if I sell one out of state. He will order anything I ask him to with no upfront payment and accepts trades on anything I bring in to him offering me a fair price based on what he is gonna be able to sell it for. Unlike ALL other shops I've tried to deal with in the past nearly 40 years of gun buying and trading he has NEVER ever said I don't think I want to take that one in. Every other shop I've ever tried to deal with has done that to me at one time or another. Recently I took a Browning LW in .22 Hornet to Steve for him to sell for me and he didn't charge me one red cent for selling it for me and got me my asking price. Can't say if he made any money by selling at a bit more or not as I didn't even ask or care.

So yes there are good gun shops around. One at least. If any of you are close enough to Gadsden, AL to deal with Steve I think you'll be as pleasantly surprised in your dealings with him as I am.

GB

[Jim n Iowa]

I live in central Iowa, high power rifle is limited to varmints. So shot guns and pistols is a large part of new firearms sold. Local gun shops are well supported by shooters, who reload, and are active at range, and varmint shooting. The problem I see for the local gun shop is gun smiths. They tend to be outside contractors, have their own version of liablity laws and really independent and some times inexperienced.
Knowledgeble gun people are generally not skilled socially, while being on top of the latest tech. I have only shared my thoughts no solutions. I know we need more local gun smiths.
Jim

My wife owns a retail store, our profit margin is greater, our service costs are less, and overhead is less. I salute the gun shop owners out there.

[Larry Gibson]

mk454

"I've yet to get any of the shop owners in town to understand that they're better off making 20% off 3 guns than 40% once."  

I was in the gun business (retail, both full and part time) a long time and if there was a 20% markup between "dealer price" and "suggested retail" it was a rare occurrence, a 40% markup was unheard of.  We don't go into other retail stores and think we are going to "get a deal" now do we, we walk in, select what we want and pay the sticker price going out the door.  We may go to different stores to get the best "deal" by saving a few dollars on price but most often we have wasted our time and spent more in gas in doing so.   We don't go to a grocery store and "dicker" on the price of food, we don't go to Home Depot and dicker on a B&D drill do we.  No we don't, we pay what the sticker price is.

So what makes anyone think a gunshop should be any different with new guns?  Do we really think they will stay in business making us a "deal" and not making any money on the sale?  Do we think a small dealer can buy in volume? That they will stay in business just making a small profit on each sale (they can't)?  Does any other small business?  Do we buy the scope and mounts plus all our powder, bullets, primers, etc. from that gunshop?  Of course most don't, we go to wally world for the cheap scope and order our bullets and other stuff out of Shotgun News or other catalogs.  Unless we've proven to be a good repetitive customers why should that dealer make us a "deal"?  What does he owe us?  Is your time worth something to you, do you work for less than minimum wage?  I certainly donÂ’t and I donÂ’t expect anyone else to.  Why should a gunshop spend the time to order, invest their money in merchandise, receive and complete required paperwork, stock the rifle and then spend several hours "dealing" with us while we want to BS before we decide to buy?  Particularly if we are just looking and going to order the rifle elsewhere?  Do you work for nothing, then don't expect the gunshop people to either.

If we want to "deal" or “dicker” we should go to a gunshow, though these days we probably won't find too many "deals" there as most tables are dealer tables.  Or we can find a "buddy" with an FFL who is stupid enough to order that rifle sight unseen from Shotgun News for you at "dealer" cost.  After we wait numerous weeks for the rifle (because many wholesalers that advertise the cheapest "dealer" price in SGNs do not carry any stock, they work off your money and only order the rifle after you have) IÂ’m sure our Buddy is really interested in making long distant phone calls and spending more of his unpaid for time on our “deal”.   Then when we get our “deal” we are most likely to p*ss and moan because it does not look as good as the one advertised in the G&A article or the one we looked over at the gunshop but did not buy because our buddy could get it for less $s.

The small independent gunshop is fastly disappearing across America.   The reason for their disappearence is us.  I gladly pay a couple bucks more for that box off bullets, can of powder or set of mounts.  I will gladly pay the extra dollars to hold and inspect a rifle before I buy it.  The sales persons at the local gunshops have gotten to know me and I them.  I do not really expect them to be subject matter experts on everthing and I research a product before I go in to buy it.  Most often I get pretty good answers on products but occasionally I get answers out there in left field.  I don't let that bother me as I already know the answer before the question comes up.  I have learned quite a bit in gunshops and I have even helped them out with sales to others by passing along good useful information.  I have even convinced most of my family to get gift certificates from the local gunshop for Christmas, bithdays, etc instead of the usual ties, shorts and socks.  I am now getting some decent "deals" at the local shops without even having to "dicker".   I could save a few $s by mail ordering (I do mail order some specialty items or bulk quanities that the local shops don't carry) but I prefer to be able to drive over and pick it up now instead of waiting.  And as someone mentioned, there is the atmosphere of a real gunshop, not going to get that at wally world.

Our local gunshops need our continued support through our business.  My local shops have most of my business and your local shops deserve yours.  When they close through lack of business we have only ourselves to blame.  

Larry Gibson

[BCB]

Well, I guess I can add a story to the deterioration of local gun shops.  Yesterday, I had my wife go to the closest gun shop in my area—about a 26 mile round trip drive.  I wanted a hammer extension for a Model Â’94 that my dad will be using tomorrow for our opening day of deer season.  The Â’94 is ‘scoped and it is a bit difficult to release the hammer with older hands and wearing gloves, thus, the hammer extension.  SO, I wrote down the make and model of the rifle and took a measurement of the width of the hammer with my Starrett calipers.  I locked the calipers in place so the width would remain set on the calipers.  The wife returns with a hammer extension to fit a 94/22 Winchester.  Needless to say, it would not fit the Â’94—the opening is too narrow.  I AM NEVER AMAZED AT THE HELP IN THOSE GUN SHOPS.  Even with the calipers set to the width of the hammer, the damn genius behind the counter couldnÂ’t get it right.  He probably shot a 300 Weatherby Magnum one time and he thought he was qualified to know all there is to know about firearms!!!  That will be my LAST venture to that store.  Hell, mail order is less of a problem.  I have order thousands of $$$$$ worth of supplies from Midsouth and never have I had such a problem  Good-bye local gun shops, and hello mail order for everÂ…BCB

[jamie]

LMG,
I actually prefer to support my local owner store versus going someplace like Wal-mart but when the gent at the shop tells you that $299 is a steal for a used marlin 336 with out a stock, wants $30 a lb for powder and $3.95 per 100 primers is just plain stupid to think that he will have repeat customers.  I don't want anyone to just hand me stuff, I wasn't raised that way, that's why I go to work.  I don't even mind paying a little extra for good service, but I just refuse to pay the extra for good service and be treated like an indigent 3rd class citizen who is wasting their time.  The shop I go to now doesn't have the best price on anything I ever bought there, but when you walk in someone ask if they came help, if you have questions they will answer them exact and honest and even go out of their way to find info for you.  They actually make you feel like you are one of their friends and are happy to see you.

[Larry Gibson]

jamie

"The shop I go to now doesn't have the best price on anything I ever bought there, but when you walk in someone ask if they came help, if you have questions they will answer them exact and honest and even go out of their way to find info for you.  They actually make you feel like you are one of their friends and are happy to see you.[/quote]"

I concur wholeheartedly with your choice.  Those are exactly the type of local gunshops I was talking about.  Those are the ones that we should support with our business.  They are around and you just have to find them.

There are a couple of the first type you mentioned in my area and quite frankly I only go in their store IF I really have to, which isn't often.  Then I will usually just get what I need and leave.  Like I said I don't frequent them often.  How they stay in business is beyond me but there are a lot of gunowners these days that don't know what a real gunshop is.  They are to used to wally world treatment.  It is a shme as I believe they are missing out on some of the true pleasures of shopping.  

How many times have you had your wife drag you to the mall?  Ever notice how many husbands are following their wives aimlessly with a thousand yard stare?  I've been one of those guys too many times myself.  I've often thought I could make my fortune if I could convince mall owners (yeah, I know - fat chance)  to let me open a chain of honest to god gunshops in malls.  The ones with a rustic atmosphere, a cast iron stove (gas flame would be ok), wooden furniture and stools, a cracker or peanut barrel (could throw the shells on the floor), free hot coffee an maybe some soda for less than a dollar a can, a rack with all the gun rags on it, another rack with books and videos of hunting and how to, and of course racks of rifles, shotguns and hand guns. Reloading supplies up the ying yang would be there along air gun supplies (maybe even have a small 10 meter range set up for firing air rifles and handguns.  There would be hunting and shooting videos available and playing.  With that many stores I would require a firearms knowledge course of instruction for salepersons relying heavily on hiring customer oriented people who are genuinely interested in firearms and shooting.  I would support and sponser matches at the local clubs, take NRA membership applications and try to get involved in firearms safety course instruction.  Just imagine how many guys would be willing to take their wives to the Mall!  Would probably create other gunowners from the other husbands wandering around.  Oh well, just in my dreams......

Larry Gibson

[Bullseye]

I have a dealer by me that claims to have a 10% markup, are very freindly and will order anything you want.  Have a couple of other dealers by me that are 30-40% higher on everything you price, so yes some dealers do mark things up 40%.  Needless to say I go to the dealer that is the cheapest and gives me good service.

[jamie]

LMG,
You open a place like that and I would have to turn into "Norm" from Cheers.  LOL

[mk454]

To respond carefully as I can tell that I've touched nerve.  The % markup I referred to is just an example.  I commonly know the dealer prices as it's not that hard to find.  I have been a good repeat customer at 2 local gunshops.  I also have no clue where you get the no dickering idea.  Suggested retail is just that, suggested.  No one EVER actually pays suggested retail on anything unless it's the hot item of the day.  No people don't dicker costs at Wal-mart but they do dicker costs at guitar shops.  Who the hell pays retail for a billiards table?  No one.  The prob is when the dealer marks up $50 over retail and then attempts to get you to pay the retail.  Every dealer's cost no matter how small is below suggested retail.  When cabela's sells a box of 50 bullets at a price that's above the local dealer's cost, let's just say $12 for example.  My problem comes in when the local dealer wants $18.95 for them.  I'd gladly pay $13.95 but not $18.95.  Just make it close and then take care of me customer service wise.  You'll make more when I buy my nest 20 boxes from you at the 13 dollar price than if I just bought one box in a pinch and continued to mail order.  I don't know why this is such a tough concept to grasp?  My bud up North said that he feels the gunshop owner acts like he's doing you a favor by lettin you buy from him.  Don't talk down to me, you may own the gunstore but I bet I've read alot more stuff and checked more opinions on the net than most employees at the gun store so just don't talk down to me.  LMG I understand you had a gunstore.  I also understand business principles on taking care of customers and getting repeat business are the same whether it's a paint store, gun store, or a car dealership.  Fact is, most of the gun store owners that I've run into are crusty ol farts that are difficult to deal with for 10 mins. let alone a longterm business relationship.  (Like the time a local shop owner told me a STOCK colt 1911 is by far more reliable than any glock pistol and that's what I needed and to give up on the plastic guns.--then implied I didn't have any brains if a I bought the glock.)

[IATRKYHNTR]

I realize now how lucky I am, I live in southeast Iowa, and I deal ONLY with our little local gun dealer. He has been a dealer for over 30 years, and it has been and will always be a side business for him. His shop is in his basement, but it is amazing to see some of the guns he has “stuck away”. He greats every one like they are old friends, and plays no favorites for anyone, even if you buy $30,000+ in guns from him. The first person in the door is the first one waited on, and if your still standing there at 12:00 midnight he will help you like you where the first person in that night. (only open 3 nights a week 7-9 and sats 9-noon) He has just about everything I will ever need available to every one, and can have most anything else here by the next Monday. He knows more about firearms and ammunition then any one I have ever met or read about.

The kinda guy he is;
I was 12 the very firsts time ever met him, and it was in the local Wal-mart. I was trying to buy some “darts” for a air pistol my dad had got me for CHRISTmas. When I got to the check out the girl behind the counter said she couldn’t, by law, let me buy them with out my mother or father there with me. Mom was off in a different lane, but John was the next person in my lane. He had heard everything and tried to explain to her that the laws did not cover “air gun darts” she just told him that it was an in house rule. So John ask me for the five dollar bill in my hand, told the girl he wanted to buy them, and pay for them for me. I was very thankful to him for this and when my mother showed up she thanked him to. He said it was no big deal, and looked at me and said “you look like you’re not out to harm any one anyway” and with a laugh he was off.

The kinda gun dealer he is;
When I turned 18 the first thing I wanted to do was buy own gun. My dad was taking me on an Elk/ Mule deer hunt in Colorado, so I was after a high power rifle. I had spent countless hours deciding what I wanted. (if I would have spent half as much time on homework I would have had a 4.0 in school) LOL It had been about ten years since dad had done much dealing with John and at least 4 years since he last bought a gun from him (my Rem 870) I went to the shop the day after my B-day and ordered my gun. This was the end of August. I bought a Remington 700 BDL DM in 7 MM Rem MAG. The next Monday it was in. I took it out the fallowing Saturday to sight it in. I found that the gun wouldnÂ’t eject the shells correctly, called John right away and he told me to run down and get some new loads from him, I was shooting handloads that my father and I had worked up in his 7 MAG. So I ran got to Johns ASAP and he handed me a full box of Federal Trophy Bonded shells, said give them a try. He gave me the box for FREE!!! When I got home and started to shoot again it still would eject the shells properly, So I called John again, He told me to bring it to him the next night he was open and he would send me to his gunsmith. So I was at his place at 7 sharp, he told me how to get to where I needed to go, and told me not to worry, cause if he could get my gun fixed that night he would send it off to Remington to get it fixed right. I must have had a worried look on my face and with out batting a eye John said “and IÂ’ll let you take one of my own guns on your hunt” I was in shock as I walked out of the shop. Well to shorten an already long story, My gun was fixed that night, and I had a good hunt out in Colorado. When I got home from the hunt I went to Johns to thank him again for everything.  I asked him why he did all of this for me and why he offered to let me use one of his guns to hunt with. He looked at me and said, “every one deserves a good rifle to hunt with, you had yours but it needed a lil work, I will not let ANY customer of mine have a hunt ruined by a gun I sold him.”

Last year he told everyone that it was his last year as a dealer, and that he was going to close shop, it was some of the saddest news I ever got, BUT here we are a year later and he is back at it. I see now how lucky we are here in S/E Iowa to have him. If your looking for a good dealer here in Iowa let me know and IÂ’ll send ya to him. And I hope everyone can find a dealer like him close to home.

IATRKYHNTR
(Nathan)

[ingwenya]

Oh My God!

LMG,

 When consumers shop, they often check the ads. They visit various stores and see who has the best price on a product they want to purchase. If you visit the local Wally World and their milk is more expensive than the local supermarket, I will shop at the cheaper of the two, based on the price of a product. Various types of retail establishments use semi-complex marketing strategies to sell products. For example, when milk goes on sale, it is rarely because the grocery store got a good deal. It is normally because they want to lure you to their store based on cheap commodities in an effort to gain all of your business on a "one stop shop." Humor me and read on.
 Gun shops do not employee any such strategies. Neither I, nor MK454, would ever conceive of badgering a gunstore owner about his price. If there are 3 stores in town, any rational person would ask themselves who has the cheapest price. I cannot imagine that any business owner would expect me to do less than check his competition.
 I am a staunch supporter of locally owned businesses. I understand that they are unable to compete financially with Academy or Stall-Mart. They do offer expertise on firearms and calibres. Here's the drop: about 80% of the information I have recieved on firearms has been false. To name a few, (1) I needed to buy an $850.00 Sendero because Savages arent as accurate. He then told me I was lying about the groups I recorded with my Savage. (2) I have been told that a .270 is much flatter shooting than a .30-06. Visit any ammunition website and find that is just not true. (3) If I was hunting in east Texas I needed a good "brush gun" like 30-30. To conclude that point, the knowledge that is the gunstores' benefit can be found and refuted by manufacturers online and in forums such as this.
What it comes down to is who will give me the most for the least?
My problem is, I actually like the people in the local stores, their just nice. If a store owner can't get a competitive price on a product, he could throw in something intangible, like a membership to his pistol range. You see, inadvertently Ihave overpaid for a product, he turns a buck (no pun intended) and I am always in his shop shooting; buying his products. You see this is probably a decent example of the complex marketing strategies MK454 was talking about. The store charged me more than their competitor, but I ended up with a better value. That's just one example. I could have been more illustrative when talking about cars, jewelry, boats, home repairs, pretty much anything other than items that are scanned at the counter.
By the way, if you hadn't mentioned that you owned or worked for a gun store, I would have concluded that anyway.

Respectfully;

Ingwenya

[Larry Gibson]

ingwenya

"My problem is, I actually like the people in the local stores, their just nice. If a store owner can't get a competitive price on a product, he could throw in something intangible, like a membership to his pistol range. You see, inadvertently Ihave overpaid for a product, he turns a buck (no pun intended) and I am always in his shop shooting; buying his products. You see this is probably a decent example of the complex marketing strategies MK454 was talking about. "

And that is EXACTLY the type of gunshop I'm refering to.  Please read my post where I do not support the jerks in the business and do not say we should.  However, ALL I said was we should find those gunshops that do provide the business atmosphere we appreciate.  We should not expect those dealers to automatically dicker on new guns (there is really not a very good markup campared to say ski equipment) but if you read what I said you will see you are repeating it.  No need to take me to task as we agree.  

But let me say again, if we do not support those local gunshops that we like they will be soon gone.  You will always get BS, old wives tales, opinions and myths anytime you discuss guns (even, or most probably, on forums like this one).  Try getting straight information from a pimply faced kid behind the counter at wally world or from the young lady sitting behind the computor at the mail order house.  Obviously it is I that have hit a nerve here.  Some have a real distaste for their experiences in gunshops.  Yet we have some responses that have very good relationships at their local gunshops.  Perhaps we should realize that it takes two to tango, WE are half of the equation there.  If we don't remain positive then the out come has no chance of being positive.  If you have a bad experience in one shop with one employee you might try talking to a couple others there before writing that shop off.  If it is a one person shop with a crusty old guy running it you can bet your buppy he WILL be opinionated.  Some aren't most aren't.  You should expect that walking in the door.  If it is poor shop and his attitude is poor then find one of the good ones and support it with your business.  That is all that I am suggesting.

Larry Gibson

[jamie]

Uh..LMG, I'm still wondering about the peanut shells on the floor, coffe and a cast iron stove.  Please send me an adress if you ever get this place going.  I hear it's nice where you live, maybe if you can open the shop I might have to move there.

[Zachary]

I kinda don't worry about these issues any more because I normally buy on line.  10% mark-up?  That's too high for me.  Heck, sometimes I find guns at OR EVEN BELOW wholesale, and I'm talking about NIB rifles.  Moreover, I have never had any problems with any of my orders.  Guns always came in PERFECT.

It truly is increasingly harder to find a place where there is knowledgeable people AND super low prices.  And the first one is harder than the second.  As far as knowledgeable people is concerned, I don't think that a potential buyer could do any better than participating in this website.  Moderators and members alike have more experience than any store I know.  What some people don't understand is, not only is GBO a fun place to visit, but it's actually an invaluable research tool.  Sure, you may get different opinions, but at least it's from people who actually have experience in a particular product or service.  You give me any 5 members and 1 moderator from GBO and I'd feel confident putting them against a whole staff at Bass Pro and beating them every time. :wink:
Zachary

[Questor]

I'm with LMG on this one. I find that it's worth paying a few extra bucks because I end up getting what I want rather than what I think I want, and ultimately I don't think it costs me any more.  Prices with my local dealers is competitive with mail order.  

About the original post, I must agree. It generally seems to be true. I've often wondered how some of these guys stay in business.  One of the places I frequent is owned by a cantankerous geezer who makes a bad first impression but truly has a good heart and knows how to buy stuff his customers will want.  The other guys I frequent are very honest and decent people. I keep going back to them because they are good people with good product, and are truly helpful, and because so many of the other guys are creeps.

[Larry Gibson]

jamie

"I'm still wondering about the peanut shells on the floor, coffe and a cast iron stove.  Please send me an adress if you ever get this place going.  I hear it's nice where you live, maybe if you can open the shop I might have to move there.[/quote]"

I'll tell ya what jamie, if I could convince some mall owners or managers of the idea I bet I could get all the financing needed.  Can you just imagine the increase in business at a mall if it was husbands who said; "honey, let's go to the mall!"  Can you imagine the decrease in maritial strife caused by wives not having to drag their husbands to the mall?  On the other hand we may create more maritial strife caused by wives having to drag their husbands OUT of the mall but what the heck, it would be worth it.  I can just see it now..."Oh, hi hon.  You can't be done shopping already?  Have you checked the shoe store out down the hall?  Might as well go see if they have some shoes you like and don't forget to look at the jewelry store, might be something there you want for Christmas.  Ok guys, now where were we .....oh yeah let's compare those two varmint rifles there on the rack, the Remington M700 and that new Savage.  Just might have to walk out of here with one of them........"

Larry Gibson

[myronman3]

i see both sides of this.   i have a local dealer who could use a lesson in tack.  i have given him plenty of business.   but for reasons i dont care to get into, i get chaffed.    long story short, he could show me a little more respect.    and i dont expect hte guy to starve in order to do it.   point is, if you aint happy, go elsewhere with your business.   but be aware that those dealers will disappear if not patronized.   decide what is important to you and go with it.

[bowhunter7532]

my father owns a small shop here in okla that has been going for about 20 years now.  we went through a fire about four years ago and he insisted that the business be built and ran as it was before.  he is retired military and does it for a hobby and to just sit around and shoot the bull with everyone in town.  he sells at the most 20% over his cost not just standard dealer cost and i do all the gun work that comes through the door.  i have a lot of guys that will not let anyone touch their guns or reload for them but me.  they will wait until i get off my steady job and get there just to give me kudos on the work that i have done. i would be proud to have you guys come to the shop and check us out.  the coffee is always ready and my mom has been making homeade goodies for years there and all is free. lol  i have been to some of the gun shops like you describe and i just have to smile when they are rude and treat people like dirt.  we may not be the most stocked dealer but if it is out there i will find it for you at the best price that i can.  i have been trying to get the old man to get a web site but he just thinks it to complicated; but i will keep after him.  well thats just a little knowledge that will let everyone know that there is still some good shops like ours left and thank all you for your time and patronage.

[myronman3]

if you open a web site, and figure out how to email me one of your mom's cookies,   we will get along just fine.    

[TimWieneke]

When I was in college, there was a gun shop where the owner treated you like crap unless you were a pretty lady.  I was conflicted - I hated being treated like that from him but he was the cheapest guy in town...   He eventually went out of business - sometimes there's more than the cheapest price.

Tim

[DennisE]

My gun shop here is Utah is Tight Group Enterprises 801-567-9576.  Diane, the owner, will get in any gun for her customers at her cost + $20, and her gunsmith, Chester, is one of the best I've run into.  And besides their both good folks.  What more could you want!  Dennis

[Old Griz]

I used to work for a large sporting goods chain, and our mark up was rarely over 10% on guns. On some products, esp. handguns like Star and Astra it might only be 3%. Of course they made plenty off of clothes, shoes, and other stuff. Only one gun shop in town could beat us on price and that was because they were a HUGH private store. We'd have 250 handguns on display, they's have over twice that many. Basically, what I'm trying to say, in many cases the mark up on guns isn't as high as most folks think.

I can also see why some salesmen get so crabby. All day long you get a parade of "experts" that want to talk your head off and never buy anything. And they know what is true--regardless of the facts. They'll even try to talk other customers out of buying something because THEY know so much more and know of something better. (Forget that the 115 lb. lady with no arm or upper body strength can't rack the slide on the big automatic, "It's a better gun." Maybe so, but not for her.)

I love these forums because I learn something new almost every time I log on. Most of you guys have tons more actual experience than I do, and have forgotten more than I will ever know, but as we all know, some these gun nuts are just that--NUTS. And if ya don't believe me, go to work in a gun shop for a while. You'll see!

(There are some strange book-people out there, too. Man, go to a friends-of-the-library sale some time. It's spooky!)

:cb2:

[dakotashooter2]

The gunshop business is a tough one. If they want to handle any kind of an inventory 10% markup is not much. Think of it this way if a gunshop has 100 guns at an average wholesale price of $200. That = $20,000 in inventory which he probably has a loan to cover. 10% markup would give a $2,000 profit, less $1,600 (8%) if it takes a year to pay off the loan. That leaves a profit of $400 which has to cover rent, utilities, phone bills, ect. You have to know the guys doing this from their garage are doing it as a hobby and not a business.  I also know from being in the retail business that the first though when ones business is not making money is to increase prices which generally proves to be counterproductive and ofen causes the owner to become a bit bitter and hard. Walmart because of the volume they do (overall) probably works on a profit margin of less than 5% and can survive with that. A mom and pop shop cannot. compared to the markup on things we need to survive the markup on guns even in the mom and pop shops could be considered very reasonable. A hard pill to swallow but true.

[Sheila]

I was  in  Dunham's one time, I asked a associate if I could  look  at  a  Marlin Rifle, the guy  said someone will be right  with you, I waited for ten minutes for someone to come, and nobody came, so I walked out of there and haven't  been back there since. There are other gunshops here I good to.  Dunham's here has such poor  customer  service, I don't know what some of the Dunham stores are like where some of you guys live.

[MarkJ_Thompson]

This is one of the reason I decided to get an FFL. Our local shops only stock the basic items and if you ask for a price on a weapon they don't have they pause, then sigh and say they will get back to you on it.

At the moment I don't have a large inventory and I can order in just about anything a person wants (within reason and legal issue) this is what gave me the customer base I have today. If they want to order something in to see it and decide they don't want it, I sell it and we split any profit off their dollar. So no one loses on the deal. I don't charge to transfer weapons unless there is a cost in it for me...shipping etc.

Here is where I flip sides...Dealers only asking 10% for firearms sales in small cities/towns will not stay in business for very long unless they sell a diversity of products and investing in the inventory to keep the customer satisfied is very costly. Dealers making only 10% need to sell a volume of product to keep from falling in the red. Your local smal town hardware store is making 40%-70% margin on the items in his/her store and the only reason we don't complain there is we NEED the flapper for the toilet.

Firearm Sales is a hard business to have and I consider it more of a hobby (even though I had to sign a ATF document saying I was in it to make money). I personally do it to help people get something they wouldn't normally be able to get in our area. Ammunition is another story... If you want the whole skinny on the situation just drop me a line.
 
MarkJ_Thompson@hotmail.com

The best Gunshop in Washington State  www.kesselrings.com
 not the best website...But definitely the best shop!

Sorry for being long winded =)