405 encore

[gs50401]

After reading about powerful Encore handguns,one in 405W sounds interesting.  Smaller diameter but at least as powerful as the 444 or 45-70.
Anyone have any experience with one of these.

[Axehandle]

Gary Reeder does a few 405 based wildcats.  I have just acquired a 378 GNR and 338 GNR.  They are 405 based.  No chance to shoot them yet. 

[gs50401]

Would a 405 contender bs possible?

[MePlat]

The 405 is NOT as powerful as the 45/70.  Maybe the aneimic loads by Federal,   Remington and Winchester but not by Buffalo Bore or handloads worked up to the permissible standards of the action strength.
The 45/70 will win easily.
A 55 can be pushed to 1500 fps in a 45/70 and in a 405 a 300 would have to be pushed to slightly over 2700 to equal the momemtum of the 550 in a 45/70.  I am talking 15 inches of barrel too.

This is in an Encore

Think about it.

[gs50401]

What about kinetic energy?

[Shortgun]

Comparing a 550 grain .45 caliber bullet to a 300 grain .41 caliber bullet is an unequal comparison. I have a 405 Win in an Encore and shoot 400 - 480 grain cast bullets. Comparing 400 gr bullets in the two calibers makes things a little more equal I think. The question is why is a 45/70 chambered in an contender and the 405 is only chambered in an Encore. Must be some pressure disparity there someplace. Anyhow my 24 inch 405 Encore is faster with 400 gr cast than my 20 inch Marlin is with 405 gr cast. That 4 inch barrel length is probably an unequal comparison also. There ain't that much difference between the two to worry me much, I can use either on anything in North America. They both have been successfully used in Africa as well. The sectional density of the 41 cal is slightly better and in my experience has a bit better trajectory.

[gs50401]

The main reason that I started this thread is that in another discussion that someone said the 444 was the best round in the contender because its smaller diameter meant more metal around the chamber and possibly less back thrust at the same pressure vs the 45-70.

I was thinking the 405 would even be more of the same vs. the 444 or 45-70. I did not want to offend the 444 or 45-70 users .

[MePlat]

The OP said "as powerful"  Not more powerful or less powerful.
Comparing bullet weights at a velocity level is a comparison.
Momentum is rating that is legitimate just as anything else.
A Contender will stand 28,000 cup levels and an Encore will stand at least as much as a 450 Marlin since they are the same guns.
Actually an Encore will stand a 375 H&H mag which operates at 54000 cup.
It is easily to get over 2000 with a .458 cal. 350 Speer from 15 inches on the under side of 40000 cup.
A 430 gr Buffalo Bore will run 1800 in a 15 inch 45/70 chronoed.  
How fast is your 405 with a 405 grain bullet from 15 inches?  What about 24 inches actually chronoed?

[securitysix]

Would a 405 contender bs possible?

Someone on this forum has one, IIRC.  Should be able to find it with a search.  I don't know how safe the combination is, but such a beast exists.

[kynardsj]

While I'm not too savvy on the 405 I do know that although the Contender and Encore are both chambered for the 45-70 you need to load trapdoor levels in the Contender to be safe and can just get crazy with them in an Encore. I own both and find myself more and more phasing out my Contenders in favor of their big brother. I don't want to limited by pressure in these type guns. If fact I've been told that the 7.62 x 39 barrel I had made is a tad too much pressure for my Contender when I shoot the Russian ammo. Had I known this I wouldn't have spent the $400.00 at MGM.

[spinafish]

I had talked to JD Jones about a .405 Contender..he said it was safe, but not very popular.  I would imagine its a handful!

[Ken ONeill]

I had talked to JD Jones about a .405 Contender..he said it was safe, but not very popular.  I would imagine its a handful!

I know that JD has built a few on Contenders, back in the day before the "reintroduction" of .405 guns and ammo, with those owners using .41 Mag. bullets. SSK is the only company I'd use to build one on a Contender.
Having said that, If I wanted one, I'd probably want it on an Encore so I could run it a bit faster, and not be worried about stressing the gun or myself. I do admit to running a .45-70 Contender a bit harder than I should, and one of these days I'm going to stop.

[Groo]

Groo here
 The problem with the Contender is the standing block on the frame. [the part the firing pin goes through]
 On a Contender it can take so much pressure full power 223 case size but not 308
 The SSK  JDJ's were designed with this in mind [the larger the case head the greater the back thrust]
 The Encore was designed with big bore rifles in mind.. It can take 460 weatherbes

[csharps]

I shoot 8 different 405's including a Super 14 Contender made by JD Jones.  It is marked barrel # 1 and made for 300 grain bullets not the 41 magnums.  He made it for me years before the rebirth of the .405.  I was one of the first to push the use of 41 mag bullets as light loads and my workup can be found in past issues of Sixgunner.  Incidentally   I killed 17 bull elk with my Contender, it is my favorite cartridge.
Charlie

[MePlat]

I don't know who said that the Encore can take the 460 Weatherby but they need to ask Gary Reeder about that.
He was chambering them in300 Win Short Mag until T/C asked him to stop.  The case head is too large for the pressure they run and the 460 Weatherby has a still yet larger head.
JD Jones won't chamber for the 300 Win short Mag much less the 460 Weatherby.  I tend to listen to JD.

[Axehandle]

Go to Reeder's web site and look at his cartridges...  He has a few based on the 405 case.. (257, 280, 310, 8mm, 338, 350, 378)... I think he writes that his 378 is Encore only while the 338 can go in a G2.   He sells a loading manual and has die sets on hand for all of them...  The barrels look danged good and his price is hard to beat.   As soon as Mid South gets in some brass I'll load some 280, 338 and 378 and tell you guys what they do for me....

[Ken ONeill]

Dr. Sharps,
I remember your articles and praise of the cartridge. You are one of "those owners" I referred to above who used / use .41 Mag bullets. The bore of those SSK .405's was a nominal .410" as I recall, rather than the .411-.413 standard of the old .405's. If I'm incorrect on that, you can let us know. In any event, the .405 Win. is a nice nostalgic round for use in the T/C single shots.