Author Topic: .458 Win. Mag (Read 4831 times)

ingwenya · « **on:** November 27, 2003, 11:16:12 PM »

At one time somebody told me that the .458 Win Mag was an unreliable cartridge due to its high pressure combined with the heat. I thought I read in a couple different posts that the issue was addressed and corrective measures taken (by bullet manufacturers). If anyone has any thoughts, lemme know.

Lawdog · « **Reply #1 on:** November 28, 2003, 12:16:38 PM »

ingwenya,

Although I don't own one Y E T!! That could and would change if I found one that I liked. The claim that the .458 were based on the high heat and humidity that is found in Africa caused(at times) the powder to stick together in the case causing incomplete burning thus lower velocities. Yes that has been changed with today's modern powder. Many people say it isn't enough for dangerous game but again there are a vast number hunters that depend on their .458 against any dangerous game. It is the cartridge of choice for Jim Carmichel, Shooting Editor Outdoor Life Magazine for hunting elephants. Check out my post called ".458 Winchester Magnum, Why Is It So Bad???" and read what others have to say. Personally if you do your job I believe it will do the job for you. Lawdog

doc-and · « **Reply #2 on:** November 29, 2003, 03:17:52 PM »

Lawdog your right! The 458 is a great cartridge. My Winchester Model 70 (post 64) Super Grade will put 5 rounds of factory loads into a target that can be covered with a 50cent piece. For all you youngsters out there a 50cent piece measures 1 3/16"approx. That was done with open sights, shooting off-hand @ 50yds with 55year old eyes in front of 5 witnesses.

doc-and

444encore · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2003, 02:47:28 PM »

From what I recall reading somewhere .458 Win Mag is the most popular
round used in Africa. Must be for some reason.
I hope in the near future
to have SSK turn me out a .458 Win Mag barrel for my Encore. Not that I'll ever go on safari. But you just never know when a rhino might escape from the zoo, and I might be the only one who can save that family having a picnic in the park. I just hope that's a good enough excuse to convince the wife to let me buy it.

oscar1975 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2008, 08:15:59 AM »

I think that there is already solution, purchased a rifle from 458 Lott. This cartridge has more gunpowder and then faster, which translates into greater kinetic energy at the time of impact. It has another advantage, that emergency can shoot 458 Winchester magnum cartridge.

Oscar.

jro45 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 11, 2008, 05:09:26 AM »

I have a friend that has the 458 Win Mag and he hasn't had any problems. He has taken his hand loads to the max.

Lone Star · « **Reply #6 on:** August 11, 2008, 02:48:59 PM »

Wow, a five-year-old thread! Too bad not everyone is still around....but a good point, today the .458 Lott is a factory option.

I got a .458 barrel for my Savage 116 and used it for one hunt on Kodiak. Never shot an animal with it though.

.

halfbreed · « **Reply #7 on:** December 01, 2008, 12:45:55 PM »

I have a CZ 550 safari mag in 458, while I will most likely never see Africa, Alaska still might happen. Which is the reason I bought it in the first place.
Interestingly enough, shortly after I bought it, I live in west KY. 1 grizzly bear escaped its compound and was running around the area according to the local news, and 1 African male lion killed its keeper and was free roaming also. The lion was killed shortly after, and the griz returned home without having caused too much excitement.
Point is, you may not live in the wilds and need one, but you just don't know what is in the neighborhood. I also know of a couple of Bengal tigers here abouts too.
John

JimP. · « **Reply #8 on:** December 02, 2008, 01:54:51 AM »

i have a Magnum Mauser 458 mag rifle, love to shoot it, mostly i shoot it with full speed handloaded cast bullet rounds, but when i hunt around here with it, i use the 300 gr Barnes Semi Spitzer bullet loaded to 2000 fps and it works very well as a brush gun and the bullet really messes up deer and hogs when you hit them, it is a fun rifle to load for and shoot, get one, you will like it, it has lots of capability and is a natural for cast bullets, i have even loaded some rounds with black powder and that was really a blast, shoots like a 45-110...lots of fun...JimP.

bluecow · « **Reply #9 on:** December 02, 2008, 04:11:20 AM »

i have a 458 on a 03 action. not much hot weather here in the n.e. but ive never had any trouble. lets face it most of us think of w. bell, allan quartermain, and s. baker when we think of the affrica. ill never get there. my opinion is the 458 gets a bad rap because it dosen't have nitro in the name, isnt flanged, ect. if h&h had made the cartridge and not winchester; all one would here is the 458 is the greatest thing since canned beer

S.E.Ak · « **Reply #10 on:** December 02, 2008, 06:35:35 AM »

Sixty years ago there was a problem but progress has been make but the old stories remain

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** December 02, 2008, 07:42:01 AM »

shot a friends mod. 70 it is nice . I have also read of the British using cordite and needing extra room in the case in hot weather . This may be a partial ansewer .

corbanzo · « **Reply #12 on:** December 03, 2008, 10:27:54 PM »

Quote from: Amigo Will on December 02, 2008, 06:35:35 AM

Sixty years ago there was a problem but progress has been make but the old stories remain

-There is your answer. Manufacturers long time ago shoving powder in big cases and expecting it to go boom. Now with modern testing and loadings there are no issues at all with the round.

Supposedley... the problem way back when was powders being too compressed, or just too much powder for the primer, and not dealing with adverse environmental conditions, and not igniting properly. Thus the .458 lott was designed to give more room for the powder. With modern primers, powders, and loadings, no such problems exsist with the .458mag.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #13 on:** December 04, 2008, 02:03:33 AM »

As originally loaded, there were several concerns with the .458 Win. mag. Using 500 / 510 grain bullets, powder space was limited, and heavily compressed. This was reported to have resulted in the occasional misfire, as well as velocities considerably less then advertised.

The British always loaded their big bore rounds to relatively low pressures to avoid sticky extraction - cordite was a powder known as being extremely sensitive to the high temperatures found in Africa and India. A lot of folks looked with suspicion at the 458 Win. do to its high pressure loading, as compared to the English stuff.

Modern powders , combined with slightly lighter weight premium bullets have allowed bullet seating with less concern for powder space, as well as very good temperature stability.

The 458 Lott is simply just a 458 Win with slightly more powder capacity, addressing the 458 Win powder capacity concern, while adding a few FPS in the process. I have never shot an elephant, but based on the record of the 458 Win in the hands of several generations of hunters, I would feel well armed.

Larry

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** December 04, 2008, 05:10:23 AM »

Having shot one with a 500 gr. bullet and seeing/feeling what it does on the big end i would feel well armed also !

jro45 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 04, 2008, 06:11:20 AM »

Myself I own the CZ 550 458 Lott and it can get up to 6000 Ft Lbs of Energy with the 500 gr bullet.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2008, 08:39:50 AM »

Quote from: jro45 on December 04, 2008, 06:11:20 AM

Myself I own the CZ 550 458 Lott and it can get up to 6000 Ft Lbs of Energy.

Most be something else on the Delaware deer...lol

JJ Kelly · « **Reply #17 on:** December 05, 2008, 08:17:25 AM »

Have Ruger #1 in .458wm love it. Only have shot big boars with it, all have gone down with
1 shot. The load I used for the hogs is Rem. 405gr. bullet 70.0grs of H-322, fed. 215 primer,
Win. brass for 2200fps. I have owned 45-70, .450 marlin and loaded them hot, WHY. With
.458wm I load down, less pressure. There is a lot of load data from mild to wild. I have gotten
2200fps with a 500gr. bullet with no problems but I rather use H-4895 for the 500's. I think
the problem with .458wm was with win. 748 powder and a weak primer, it would not lite that
powder charge, with w-748 you really compress the charge, I have plenty of load data if any-
one wants. Also have loaded for .458 Lott and if all you want is more speed with a 500gr.
bullet then that's the way to go. For me .458wm is more flexable and I don't need more power
than that.

jro45 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 11, 2008, 02:08:42 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1 on December 04, 2008, 08:39:50 AM

Quote from: jro45 on December 04, 2008, 06:11:20 AM
Myself I own the CZ 550 458 Lott and it can get up to 6000 Ft Lbs of Energy.

Most be something else on the Delaware deer...lol

Its those darn elephants running around in my back yard ...lol

bluecow · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2009, 01:44:30 PM »

elephants. you ot to see these woolly rinos. MINUS 22 this morning. bring on global warming!

kiddekop · « **Reply #20 on:** January 18, 2009, 09:49:03 AM »

Quote from: ingwenya on November 27, 2003, 11:16:12 PM

At one time somebody told me that the .458 Win Mag was an unreliable cartridge due to its high pressure combined with the heat. I thought I read in a couple different posts that the issue was addressed and corrective measures taken (by bullet manufacturers). If anyone has any thoughts, lemme know.

http://www.mccannindustries.com has some interesting conversions

bustedknee · « **Reply #21 on:** January 23, 2009, 04:44:00 PM »

Quote from: 444encore on December 20, 2003, 02:47:28 PM

... I hope in the near future to have SSK turn me out a .458 Win Mag barrel for my Encore. Not that I'll ever go on safari. But you just never know when a rhino might escape from the zoo, and I might be the only one who can save that family having a picnic in the park. I just hope that's a good enough excuse to convince the wife to let me buy it.

I've owned a couple 458's and never had a problem with any factory round.
I did have one squibb round, because I loaded it waaaaay too light just to see how low I could go.
I was a looking for a llight 45-70 type load. The bullet stopped in the barrel. When I dropped a cleaning rod down the barrel the bullet fell out.
I currently have a Bullberry 458 win Mag on my Encore and it is fun to shoot. The gun weighs 12 lbs!