Author Topic: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?  (Read 4166 times)

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Offline walmpus

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Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« on: June 22, 2010, 02:41:57 PM »
I just saw an add for a new CVA single shot rifle called the scout. It's CVA's version of the handi-rifle. I checked it out on their website and they slam H & R pretty hard in 7 different categories. I'm not buying into it and the scout is more expensive than a handi. Prices start out at $300 or just a shade above. You can view it and the categories on the cva website.

Anybody else seen this?

WCB

Offline Spanky

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2010, 03:42:16 PM »
Nice lookin' rifles... I'm gonna talk to my dealer and see what they'll charge for 'em. I'll probably get one. :)
A 30-06 would be nice.



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Offline spikehorn

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2010, 04:00:10 PM »
Yeah not bad lookin, I would like to know twist rates. might try a 7mm-08, seein how that was my one handi I couldn't get to shoot.
308 win                 45-70                       12ga         
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Offline dave29

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Offline wreckhog

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2010, 04:25:16 PM »
Dick's had their version of the CVA Optima Elite in standard rifle calibers on sale for $179 last deer season. Intended to pick one up, but never bothered. 30-06 was what I was looking at, and seem to remember that it came pretty "loaded" with accessories. There are a couple threads somewhere in the CVA section. Seemed that people liked them.

Oh yeah. It was stainless steel with a Begara barrel too! The stainless Begara barrel alone costs far more than that if you are buying for a TC frame.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,191964.0.html

Offline Swampman

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2010, 04:38:11 PM »
I wouldn't own anything made by CVA....for any reason.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline walmpus

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2010, 04:51:12 PM »
You can look up the rate of twist on the begarra barrel website. I checked it out. Right now they just dont have alot of caliber options out. Maybe because they are still so new?

They are nice looking guns but I am traditionalist. I like blue steel and walnut. It seems like traditional guns are getting harder to find as the days pass. I just wondered if anyone had one or any experience with them.

I will admit I am tempted, but with the past history I've with CVA I just cant go there. I even really like the new apex and accura.......but I am just to afraid to go down that road again and wont.

wcb

Offline Swampman

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2010, 05:01:46 PM »
They are the bomb ;D
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Mac11700

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2010, 05:10:26 PM »
They are the bomb ;D

Tongue in cheek or not..I'm from Missouri Swampy...prove it ;)

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Offline mike@nds

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2010, 06:44:58 PM »
The latch looks to be susceptible to accidentally being hit and unlocking the action.

Plus it looks too much like a Rossi.  :P

I wish Savage would make the model 219 again. They had more classic lines.
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Offline JeffDavis

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2010, 07:24:00 PM »
I have handled a few at the shop I go to now. They are no Handi Rifle for sure. I am not impressed. Retail was starting at $309 and went up accordingly for stainless and/or scope bases.  Iron sites are fiber optic and were set up to only around 12 inches of sight plane between front and rear sight. Rear site was a good 6 inches from the chamber. Barrels were all fluted (the only feature I cared for). They were all youth models and were very compact, in a cheap-feeling synthetic stock. Only caliber present was the 243 Winchester.

Being a large fella, I was cramped for room while sighting down the barrel. Mike is right in his opinion of the barrel release latch. It is large and ungainly. The only thing that would keep it in place is the fact the guns were all very hard to break open. Very similar to a Rossi in feel and fit.

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Offline petemi

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2010, 02:43:31 AM »
I had a .32 cal. CVA muzzleloader years ago and it was a piece of crap.  I gave it away and never went back there.  I'm happy with what I've got.

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Offline Mac11700

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2010, 04:04:16 AM »
I think it is funny they have decided to go after the Handi the way they have. They really aren't being 100% truthful in their advertisement by comparing recoil pads with their synthetics and H&R's..and also they are forgetting one major mitigating factor in their comparison...Only one of these are fully built in the USA,and only one of these companies has to prove they are safe to a lot of people...including their very own mainstream dealers.

While the Bergara Barrels are indeed good barrels,they have had dimensional issues with them,just as H&R has had,and they have had problem with their lock up on them too.Some of them can be awesome shooters straight out of the box,but you will be very limited to correcting anything that goes wrong with them,save for sending them back in for warranty repair.

Their idea is sound though,and as I said a long time ago when I was shooting the Optima Elites,and just as I said this to them then..if they ever decide to design some decent wood for them and offer some quality open sights,and actually decide to increase the dealer distribution numbers,they might actual capture some of the Handi's market share..but..if they fail to correct the stagnation of different calibers and barrel lengths being offered as well doing many public demonstrations on how strong the rifle is,people won't respond the way they want them to. They have to overcome what has happened before,and that won't be easy,not only that but the other issues I already mentioned.With out this change from the company, I look for these to go the same way the Optima Elites,and that is to have a good start initially but through failure to understand the center-fire market become a discontinued model and re released as a much cheaper version than they originally were to recoup some of the cost.

Also,if they kept their barrel locking feature,then that is a very good thing,because if they ever actually do decide to show the public they are perfectly safe and they manage to get many barrel choices on the dealers shelves instead of the very limited numbers they did with the Elites..they might actually have a chance. IMHO that will be the only way they can ever do this..prove beyond a reasonable doubt that their guns won't blow up and make them readily available. To me this doesn't seem to difficult,especially if they ever want to overcome the old CVA's past mistakes.

Truthfully I don't see them willing to do any of this this time around since they wouldn't listen when the Optima Elites came out.Public perception is a funny thing..having a top barrel designer is a awesome idea for the company and certainly is good PR,but for a company with past issues not having  public demonstrations on just how strong they are..people will always have their doubts..no matter how good they are or how accurate they are..the burden of proof is on them to prove they are safe so that any naysayers have no argument. Toyota figured this out real quick,that's something CVA never did.

The Handi is an Icon in the single shot world..funny as that may sound.They are the most prolific single shot available to the US market,and their position is enviable and certainly worth going after. It up to Remington to keep it so,and only time will tell if that happens.

The Optima Elites I had were top-notch BTW..and exceedingly accurate right out of the box..with only very little minor forearm fitting needed to be 1 hole shooters.Some others weren't as lucky .I never understood why they wouldn't take on all the past negativity and show the public that they were stronger and superior to anything else in their price range..

Mac
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Offline 44 Man

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2010, 04:45:31 AM »
Speaking of the Savage 219 (I shot one of those and loved it!), I have been drooling over the Remington spr 18 single shot in 30-06.  I think they have discontinued them now but there are still some out there.  Everytime I start to get serious about buying one, some other gun thrusts itself into my hands that I have to have!  ha ha.  44 Man

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Offline xhare

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2010, 04:46:25 AM »
No barrel interchange either, one caliber per rifle.

Offline mike@nds

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2010, 04:52:41 AM »
If you need to know why they are going after the Handi rifle, just look at the manufacturing reports for the last 2 years.

IIRC H&R was in the top 10 for quantity of rifles made.

What CVA dosen't get is that much of it is price point driven, and they will never sell as many $300+ rifles as $200-$230 rifles.
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Offline Mac11700

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2010, 05:18:37 AM »
If you need to know why they are going after the Handi rifle, just look at the manufacturing reports for the last 2 years.

IIRC H&R was in the top 10 for quantity of rifles made.

What CVA dosen't get is that much of it is price point driven, and they will never sell as many $300+ rifles as $200-$230 rifles.

When I was shooting them exclusively..they weren't trying to capture the $200 range.but to be priced lower than the Encores enough they would draw folks to them with the interchangeability feature and the quality of the barrels.

They could sell a ton of them if they were smart in how they did it.

Mac
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Offline FLNT4EVR

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2010, 08:25:17 AM »
I just went to their web site and checked them out. I'm not trying to offend any one ,but I don't like them.They may be a very good rifle,but I like the profile of the Handy rifle better.
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Offline Spanky

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2010, 08:32:54 AM »
Some of you guys make me laugh... it's like the Chevy vs. Ford thing. I bet most of the guys trashing the "other" brands have never even handled one.  ::)
Variety is the spice of life fellas... I think it's good for other companies to recognize the success of the handi's and want to make a competitive rifle.



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Offline necchi

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2010, 08:40:54 AM »
 One of the local shops had a dealers demo day no too long back, and a CVA rep was there. I handled the Apex, it was his, and we broke it down, put it together. Gave it a good inspection, the design seemed good. You can get extra barrels, Nice gun. He spent most of his time doggin T/C, with little to say of HR/NEF.
I won't buy one,,what for?
 I spose' if I ran into one at a show for cheap I might make the plunge, but at this time I don't need to follow another school of tip's an tweeks, I saw little advantage gained besides pretty and new.
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Offline mike@nds

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2010, 09:04:13 AM »
For me there's two levels of break action single shots; economy or Blaser K95. Anything in between is just silly. ;D


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Offline guns-o-fun

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2010, 09:28:38 AM »
Anyone know if the KP 1 is any good (Knight)?  Green Mountain barrels.  Getting kind of pricey lately, though.

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2010, 10:08:51 AM »
Ford vs Chevy.
For every person that trashes one brand there is another who dearly loves his no matter which brand you are for.
I have never owned a bad Ford or a bad Chevy.
I just know over the years the Ford wouldn't stand up to what I put it through or do the same job as well as the Chevy did so I chose the Chevy.
Just my experence.
The same goes for firearms and about any other item made in the world.
Why do some like one over the other, Ford- Chevy, Remington-Winchester, Maytag-Kenmore, Craftsman-Snap On, ect.?



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Offline spikehorn

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2010, 10:32:11 AM »
Anyone know if the KP 1 is any good (Knight)?  Green Mountain barrels.  Getting kind of pricey lately, though.

I believe Knight has closed up shop. Traditions also has single shot break action rifles with alot more calibers available than CVA
308 win                 45-70                       12ga         
30-30                    223 stainless steel   20ga TDC
44 mag                  Tracker II 20ga        20ga
45-70 Manlicher     20ga USH                28ga
                                                              410ga

Offline Swampman

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2010, 10:44:10 AM »
Knight is opening back up and should be available soon.  I'd avoid anything made in spain.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Mac11700

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Re: Handi-Rifle competition from CVA?
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2010, 12:25:53 PM »
For me there's two levels of break action single shots; economy or Blaser K95. Anything in between is just silly. ;D


http://www.blaser.de/K-95-Stutzen-Black-Edition.1361.0.html?&L=1

Yup...those are certainly some fine rifles...and would be a worry every time I took it hunting..course..if I could afford one of their Imperial Grades with all the extra goodies..I wouldn't have to worry about much of anything  :D :D :D :D :D

Mac
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