Shipping a complete Handi to Ilion?

[JamesIII]

I have my UPS return ticket, now what is the best way to package the Handi for return? I did several searchs, but I must not have been able to define it properly. How do you guys package them up? In the orginal box? New package? Lots of extra wrapping? No identification of whats in the package? Thanks for your help. JamesIII

[petemi]

I recently shipped a rifle UPS in an original box and I didn't want all the firearms info showing so I wrapped it in paper..........and....UPS charged me extra for it being wrapped.   I can't find my reference to say for sure, but I think, sending it to the factory, you can knock it down and put it in a USPS Flat Rate box and send it.  You might want to check that out.

Pete

[petemi]

I found the reference.  Here it is:

 May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

Pete

[quickdtoo]

Pete's reference is for transfer of ownership which doesn't apply to sending your own firearm to the mfr for repair, and the return shipping label sent by H&R is a UPS label, not USPS. Best advice is break it down and ship it in a shorter box within another box, use lots of packing so the parts can't touch each other or possibly move, the only markings on the outside should be the shipping label and box certification that most boxes have on the bottom, a black marker or duct tape work well to cover unnecessary markings. Wrapping with paper isn't a good idea unless well sealed, if it's gets removed in handling, the shipping label is gone with it and the package becomes undeliverable and lost.

Tim

[petemi]

Tim the question is:

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

Having nothing to do with transfer of ownership.

Since he has a pre-paid UPS label, your idea of double boxing it is excellent.  They raped me for the paper wrapping charge, and I thought it might have been cheaper for him to USPS it flat rate, rather than pay the extra UPS fee.

Pete

[quickdtoo]

Shipping USPS is irrelevant since he has a prepaid UPS shipping label from H&R to return his rifle for repair, his question is how to prepare it for shipping, not how to ship it. 

Tim

I have my UPS return ticket, now what is the best way to package the Handi for return?

[Sourdough]

I use my original shipping container.  I sometimes use news paper to give it extra support to keep it from moving inside the box.  When I can't find the original shipping box i break them down and wrap them well, then ship in a smaller box. 

[JamesIII]

Thank you all for responding. I like the idea of breaking it down and shipping it in a smaller box. JamesIII

[Swampman]

Keep in mind you have to tell them in writing it's a firearm.

[JamesIII]

Swampman, you have to notify UPS that it is a firearm? I was not aware of that. JamesIII

[quickdtoo]

Keep in mind you have to tell them in writing it's a firearm.

That's not true, all you have to do is inform them it's a firearm, same thing for the USPS, please read their regs before spreading bad info. The main issue is where it's accepted. Note: Firearms are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or at The UPS Store or any third party retailer. Best advice is locate the nearest UPS Customer Center or Hub, UPS store and UPS acceptance points located in 3rd party retailers are not allowed to accept firearms, use their locator page, be sure to uncheck all but the Customer Center.  http://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US&WT.svl=PriNav

Tim

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html

[wtroger]

Use UPS online service and schedule a pick up that is how I do it. Since it is a 2 hr drive to the nearest hub. I have never had a problem doing that.

[jlgwiz]

Looking at the link quicktdoo sent, I would say that you do not need to inform them it is a long gun. 
"When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk."
  jlgwiz

[trotterlg]

With the USPS you do not have to tell them it is a gun you are mailing, and they cannot ask you what is in the box, only if it is hazardous or parishable, which it isn't.  Please show us that law.  They "suggest" you ship it insured, but "suggest" is not a rule, and they tell you not to indicate that it is a gun on the box.  It is not a hazardous shipment so you just box it up and send it off.  We are talking long guns here, not hand guns.  Larry

[quickdtoo]

I've posted these regs several times before, here are the current links to those regs.

Tim
USPS Retired

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_008.htm

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_010.htm

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_011.htm

http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1065404

[trotterlg]

I have read all of these regulations.  I cannot find any place in any of them that requires someone to tell the USPS that a long gun is in the package.  If someone finds that please point this out to me.  It does say they may require you to show that it is not loaded, but it does not say you have to tell them that there is a gun in the package.  Sort of a don't tell, don't ask?  Larry

[quickdtoo]

Have ya ever heard the old adage "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"? Firearms are considered restricted matter, so it would be wise to inform the accepting clerk that you're mailing restricted material. 

Tim

http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52_print.htm

2 General Guidelines
21 Mailability
211 General
Under 18 U.S.C. 1716, all matter that is outwardly or of its own force dangerous or injurious to life, health, or property is nonmailable. The knowing deposit of such matter in the mail is a crime punishable by fine, imprisonment, and/or other penalty. However, some hazardous materials, and otherwise restricted matter or perishable matter, are permitted to be mailed when the primary requirements specified in DMM C020-C024 and the supplemental criteria in this publication are fully met.
For reasons of safety, most hazardous materials are nonmailable. DMM C023, along with Chapter 3, Appendix A, and Appendix C of this publication, provide detailed information on which hazardous materials are permitted to be mailed and the conditions that apply.
Restricted matter and perishable matter are either nonmailable or mailable only under the specific conditions stated in DMM C022 and C024, and Chapters 4 and 5 of this publication, as applicable.
The mailing conditions that apply to hazardous materials, restricted matter, and perishable matter in international mail are specified in Chapter 6. Chapter 7 contains information on the specific conditions that apply to the air transportation of mailable hazardous materials, restricted matter, and perishable matter.
212 Mailer Responsibility
The mailer is responsible for complying with all mailability statutes and regulations that apply to a specific material and needs to keep abreast of current regulations adopted by the Postal Service and other governmental agencies. See DMM C021 for a more complete statement of the responsibility of postal customers regarding the mailing of hazardous materials, restricted matter, and perishable matter.
The Postal Service disseminates information about mailing rules by publishing the DMM and IMM, and by providing this publication and others that furnish additional guidance to mailers.

[Swampman]

18 USC 922:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/1...2----000-.html

Quote:
(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

All I know is that my post office requires a letter.  

[petemi]

Governments, not only our own, certainly make life complicated.  Jeeze, after reading this thread, I oughta be in jail by now.

Pete

[quickdtoo]

Read it again, if shipping to a licensed mfr or licensed dealer, no written notification is required. 

Tim

18 USC 922:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/1...2----000-.html

Quote:


(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

All I know is that my post office requires a letter. 

[Swampman]

That makes no sense.  It can't be shipped to anyone else when leaving the state.

[quickdtoo]

Sure it can, I can ship my own rifle or shotgun to myself in care of another person in another state for sporting purposes. 

Tim

Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

    Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-additional

[Swampman]

It turns out the ATF faqs are wrong and they have admitted it in writing.  Fed Law requires the carrier to be notified in writing.

[quickdtoo]

What's the source of that statement? Or should there be a j/k after it!! 

Tim

[Swampman]

The shipper can require it and they do.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/BATFE_shipping_letter.jpg

[quickdtoo]

The shipper has the ability to require written notification, it's still not required by federal law.

Tim

[Swampman]

From the BATF

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

Well at least you have to let them know........

[quickdtoo]

Thanks, that answer's Larry's question. 

Tim

[FW Conch]

  I can see shipping it to H & R, they are a "licensee".  What about when they send it back to me ? - I am not.  Does it have to come back

to an FFL ?   THANKS-Jim

[quickdtoo]

Nope, it's yours.

Tim