BC Black Powder Loads?

[All Hawks Kill]

I was wondering if any of you shoot Black Powder loads in you Buffalo Classics and what loads you shoot.  I'm saving for a BC and have been doing some research on loads. 

Also I've read where some of you have had your rifles modified to 45-120.  I've always wanted a 45-110, but they don't seem to be too popular, is there a reason?

Thanks in Advance.
Derek

[bikerbeans]

AHK,

I haven't shot black powder in my BC but I have shot BH209, a BP substitute.  I have looked at shooting BP but decided againist it for a few reasons.  Main thing with black powder is it has it own set of rules regarding loading.  You really need to educate yourself before filling a case with BP.  Also, you cannot have an air gap in a cartridge with black powder.  So you either load to a compressed charge or add a filler on top of the powder.  From what I have read, you probably will not like lighting off a full case of BP in a 45-110 or 45-120.  

I have rechambered my BC to 45 120.  The cost to rechamber and the cost for brass for either a 45 120 or 45 110 is pretty much a wash.  Most folks (me included) probably go with the 45 120 because it the the biggest straight wall rimmed cartridge for the .458 bullet.  If you go with a 45 90 there are some cost savings in the brass.  The rechambering is probably still about the same cost, $50 to $70 if you do it yourself, not sure what a professional would charge.  

Since the great bison herds are pretty much gone, there probably isn't a good hunting reason to have either a 45 120 or 45 110.  Being able to shoot a fairly large round from your gun is fun and legal so why not?   If you like the 45 110 then you should go with it.  Also, I believe in the movie, Mr. Quigley was shooting a 45 110 so you would have a little bond with Mr. Selick.

BB

[All Hawks Kill]

I've shot BP rifles and smooth bores for many years, so I know all about not leaving a air gap as it cost me once many years ago, but we won't talk about that....

During my research, I've decided to us Wonder Wads as a filler, mainly so they don't crush the powder during the bullet seating.  I have found over the years that no matter how close to doing it the same everytime, when you get to crushing BP your loads change.  I've also looked at loading with American Pioneer Powder which is also a substitute.

As far as the rechambering, I'd likely take it to a pro as I've never dug that deep into guns and wouldn't want to ruin one trying to do something I've never done. 

You are right about Quigley, he was shooting a 45-110 with a 540gr Paper Patched bullet, or so the movie goes....

BTW thanks for the advice!!!

[rsl]

I shoot Triple 7 in my 45/70 with a 300 grain lead bullet.. Nice accuracy and not much kick...

[tacklebury]

I've been loading Jim Shockey's Extra Gold fffg with about 1/16th inch compression under a 350 Gr. lead round nose flat point by Dardas.  I'm not too thrilled with the consistency from the shockeys, due to grain size variance I think, so I picked up some Goex and just loaded up some with pyrodex also.  Just using up stuff I have and also had hoped to try out the 777 as well.  I am also going to try either beeswax cookies or lubed wad under them though, because I do get an occasional lead splatter from the direct contact of the bullet with the powder.  I have also been prepping to load up some "filled" bp loads with a .457 ball crimped in.  I have had good luck with Reloader7 and can ring a 10" gong consistently with them at 100 yards using about 13.2gr.  I am using this load to wipe out ground hogs at my Grandpa's farm.  I am just playing with the black powder now though, but hope some day, when I can afford the sights, to try some of the local BP competetions.

**Edit**
Just noticed I forgot to say it was 13.2gr. Unique

[Swampman]

I shoot Triple 7 in my 45/70 with a 300 grain lead bullet.. Nice accuracy and not much kick...

I'm thinking about doing the same.  Do you take any special measures? I wonder how the old timers managed to shoot black powder without wads or even using reloading dies and had no problems?

[All Hawks Kill]

I shoot Triple 7 in my 45/70 with a 300 grain lead bullet.. Nice accuracy and not much kick...

I'm thinking about doing the same.  Do you take any special measures? I wonder how the old timers managed to shoot black powder without wads or even using reloading dies and had no problems?

From what I know, the old timers always loaded max and used big bullets so there wasn't any gap.  But I'd bet they learned to do things, such as making wads, or something like wads.  Heck they came up with paper patching and that seem to work pretty good for them.  I think things are just easier for us today, we have far more sources and materials available than they did, but they had a way of making things work with what they had.....

[Swampman]

I think we overthink everything we do.  There's no reason to have a gap because the case should be as full as it will go.  Wads shouldn't be necessary because they weren't used in US military .45-70 (405 grain bullet) cartridges.  I don't think the military used paper patching either.

[bikerbeans]

I found the following infromation from Hodgdon regarding 777 in cartridges.


"Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this brochure. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do NOT reduce loads by means of filler wads of inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads."

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/muzzleloading_manual_2008.pdf?CHECKBOX_1=on

IF this link will work will take you to Hodgdon cartridge load data for 777-2FG loose powder.  There are 2 loads for the 45/70, both 60 grains by VOLUME. 

[lonewolf5348]

I used to shoot BP out of the b.c. wads were cut from milk cartons and you will need a compression plug for the die to compress the powder charge.
I used 2 F Goex and a soft cast 405 FP bullet No air space between the bullet wad and powder
here a great link web site on BP loading and shooting
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

[gcrank1]

Our 45-70 didnt use paper patch bullets, but quite a number of foreign black powder/lead bullet military cartridges did. The British 577-450 used 'carded wool' as a filler after going to drawn cases (which had more powder capacity than the original case). The history of the traditional cases will provide some insights, but to keep from 're-inventing the wheel' there is now a plethora of info readily available. Follow the accepted loading procedures and you will, most likely, have early success. Its all out there.

[tacklebury]

I should have posted this link the first reply, sorry, I am talking about the "cookie" used in this article.  I have not actually made them yet, but they seemed to improve Junior's groups if you look at his before and after.  His use of them was based on the Sharps company's loading recommendations.  Enjoy!

http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/1871.htm