7mm Rem Mag vs. .270 WCF for Deer?

[lgm270]

I recently completed a mule deer hunt in Wyoming with my group of friends and a new guy with a 7mm Rem Mag bad mouthed my .270 WCF that has served me faithfully for decades, arguing that I should have a 7mm Rem Mag instead because it's  purportedly a better round.

Two other guys used 7mm Rem's with Fed. FActory ammo using 140 grain Nosler partitions and another guy used Winchester 150 grain factory loads.

I use 130 Nosler partitions in my .270 WCF at a chronographed 3,100 fps.

According to the catalogs, the 140 grain nosler partition in the 7mm Rem Mag is listed as 3,140 fps and the 150 grainers are listed at 3,050 fps.  

An incorrigle and compulsive gun nut always on the hunt for something new and better, I have considered the 7mm Rem Mag (I have a brand new unfired M-70  classic super grade still in the box after more than 10 years)  but have always concluded that it is not suffiiciently better than the .270 for  long range deer hunting to justify going through all of the effort.  My personal hunting experience seems to confirm this.  I have seen many deer kiled with the 7mm Rem Mag by other hunters and could not tell that they were killed any more suddenly than with my .270.  

How can a 140  grain .284"  Nosler Partition at 3140 fps. be  materially superior in killing power to a  130 grain .277" Nosler Partition at the same speed?  IMHO the two loads are identical in killing power and in trajectory, for all practical purposes.

I have studied the reloading manuals and some manuals show 3350 fps with the 7mm Rem Mag 140 grain bullet and 3,200 with the 150 grain bullet, but others are far more modest and are down around the .270 level.

The 7mm Rem Mag kicks noticably harder and is noticably louder than the .270 and only holds 3 magnum  sized rounds in the magaznie as compated with 5   '06 sized cases in the 270.  

In a lengthy discussion with my "friend", I demurred to the idea of replacing my .270 WCF with a 7mm Rem Mag, arguing that it is a poor exchange to get more recoil, more ear splitting muzzle blast and less magazine capacity for no discernable increase in range or killing power on deer sized animals.

Am I wrong?

[gunnut69]

The magnums were developed to hit harder at longer ranges.  They will push lighter bullets very fast but it's with heavier bullets that the big cases and the large helpings of slow burning powder can have a real effect.  The 7mmRemMag comes into it's own with the 160 grain bullets.  And while trajectories are pretty much the same out to 300 yards or so at longer ranges the effeicient bullet begins to tell.  The real story isn't in the trajectory, it's in the energy delivered to the target and the extra penetration.  Fact is the 7mmMags are not really needed for deer hunting.  The 270 will normally do all that's needed BUT so will a 7mmMag.  The mag will also do things the 270 really would have a problem with.  Elk springs to mind and raking shots on really big deer at extreme ranges..  As to the 'advantages' you mention, magazine capacity is irrelavent, this is not a battle rifle, singleshot rifles are perfectly satisfactory for hunting.  They mags are without a doubt noisier than a 270 but when hunting they are not abusive.  Oh and as to recoil, the 7mmMag and a 30-06 have nearly the same recoil energy...it's one of the reason the 7mm is so popular.  Please don't penalize the cartridge the round because of the poor ammo choices of it user, although I bet their choice would also kill a mulie without problem.  The 270 is a great round and it's chief virtue is it's ability to function well in a smaller lighter package than it's bigger brothers.  The 7mm is a bit more versatile, the 270 more comfortable..  Either is great for deer,,  by the way, how'd the hunting go??  Any really big one's?

[Siskiyou]

I have been hunting with the .270 Win for around 45 years.  It has proven itself to be a very effective round.  I have used it in heavy brush from ten yards to the open Sage at about 300 yards.  It has done the job with light recoil and light wieght.

It is my caliber of choice for deer and antelope.  I might pick a 30-30 Marlin for the thick timber and heavy brush because it is easy to get the short rifle into action.  But if that hunt includes a chance of shooting across canyons a .270 is the rifle of choice because it's shoots flatter, offers more down range punch, and sighted in for the long shot.

I have a 7MM Remington Mag.  I bought it for elk.  It is a good shooter.  In fact it is fun to shoot.  I am impressed with the 145 gr. Speer bullet.  I can fire the .270 and the 7mag from the bench on the same day, and there is no doubt that 145 grainer has something on it.  I have developed some loads for the 160 grain bullets and the 175 grain bullets.  Accuracy is no problem.  But for me the 7MM Remington Mag compared to the .270 Win is like the Maytag Repairman.  It is very competent round.  But the rifle is a little on the heavy side.  It weighs a pound and half more then my lightest .270.  Plus it cost more for powder and bullets.  The weight is not all bad when it comes to recoil, but it is a disadvantage to the hunter who spends his day working across rock slides at high elevation.  The weight takes a toll after a while.  While I have a sling I prefer to carry the rifle in my hand.

Yep, the 7 Mag is a better 400 yard round, but I will pass a 400 yard shot.  I practice a fair amount, but I do not have a place to shot 400 and 500 yards.  I feel that a responsible hunter does not take those long shots if he does not practice at it.  In turn I will not knock a guy who hunts with the 7 Mag.  it is a good round.  It is the round of choice for one of my hunting partners.   He has a number of deer rifles, but he reachs for the 7 Mag. when he goes out the door.  

 Another partner has a few more rifles then he has x-wifes(7).  Maybe the number seven means something to him.  About ten years ago he bought himself a nice Winchester in 7 Mag.  So what rifle does he take deer hunting.  A well used 30-06 which he has taken sixty or seventy plus deer with over the years.

Some days I have to make a choice because I will be hunting in heavy cover, but with the oppertunity to take a buck across a canyon.  So, I reach for my old Remington 760 in .270 Win.  It will be loaded with 150 grain bullets.  It has proven itself time again.  One hunt I spot three 4x4(ten eastern) bucks coming at me.  I was in thick cedar reproduction.  I swung on one at about twenty feet.  The first round blew chunks of cedar all over the place, the next one took him behind the shoulder.  Later in the day I took a second of the three bucks at about 200 yards.   It is hard to beat the quick follow-up from a Remington pump.  The first buck would have been a tougher shot with the longer, weighty, harder recoiling 7MM Mag.

The key to success, what ever caliber is practice, practice, and more practice.

Siskiyou

[Zachary]

How can a 140  grain .284"  Nosler Partition at 3140 fps. be  materially superior in killing power to a  130 grain .277" Nosler Partition at the same speed?  

How can it be "materially superior?" - It can't.  The 7mag is not materially superior to the .270.  The 7mag has a bit of an advantage on paper (and in the field), but if you shoot an elk, at the same angle, at the same distance of less than 250 yards, then the elk will do down within minutes, if not seconds, of either load.  Now, at longer distances, say 250 to 350 yards, or more, the 7mag will have an edge.  Again, will it be "materially superior?" No.  

Zachary

[SHW]

I have hunted Whitetails with 30-30, 30-06, 22-250, 270 Weatherby, 300 Weatherby, 300 Rem Ultra mag, 270 Win & 7mm Rem mag.  I know that what the charts say (trajectory & energy), but I always go back to the 7mm Rem mag.  When I walked out the door a 7mm Rem mag is in my hand.

I like the 270, but I like the 7mag better.  The 7mag does everything that the 270 does, but just a little better.  300 plus yards plus is where the 7mag shines.  Just my view.

[longwinters]

I have never had a 270 but I do have a 7mm.  Is my rifle better than yours?  It is different, it is mine so I am attached to it, I like to shoot it and hunt with it.  But it is not better for anything probably you or I would ever do with a rifle.  Guys that gotta argue that "my caliber is better than your caliber" need to get out of grade school and just hunt with the gun they got.  Too many people get belittled for the caliber they shoot for no other reason than someone else's ego.  Enjoy your 270.

long

[BruceP]

If your 270 has served you faithfully for decades then I would say it is a moot point what others think. IMHO, I would say if the 270 was failing to do what you ask of it then get a bigger cartridge. Even then I would say if the 270 won't do the job, don't stop at the 7mm Remington mag. but go on to at least a 300 Win. mag. For deer size game the 270 Win. should serve you for several more decades. Now if you just want a new rifle go ahead and get what you want. Thats why I'm getting a 35 Whelen AI, not because my 270 doesn't work.
BruceP

[gunnut69]

I believe there is a material difference between the 270 and the 7mmMag.  It's heavier bullets at higher velocities.  It's a more powder capacity and more energy delivered.  Is it needed?  Not really..  The 270 is enough to handle almost any situation but there are differences.  Would I say the 270 or the 7mm is better one over the other,,NO WAY.. They are just different.  The 7mm is materially different than a 270, but perhaps the difference is not needed!

[Mr Bill]

I can't resist but to put my 2 cents in on this one.

Tell the person that thinks you should have/use a 7mm Mag instead of your270 to buy you one. Just don't tell them you already have one.

I agree with the earlier poster that said, he needs to get out of grade school.
The 270 is fine for deer and if your proficient with yours all the better.

I bought a 7mm Rem Mag last year, or was it the year before, regardless; I'm still wondering what I'm going to hunt with it, other than punch close patterned holes in paper. With its 26" barrel it's fun to shoot and I've got a bitchin' load for it with 160 and 175 Mag Tips but, for deer I'm sticking with my 7mm-08 featherweight 'cause it's easier to pack at altitude and has all the power and accuracy that I need at the range I'm proficient at.

Hope you had a good season otherwise.
Bill

[CzaRon]

If the .270 Win. works for you , why fix what isn't broke? I run into guys who think my .30/06 ,.250 Savage are so obsolete until I tell them I also use a .30/30 or a .45/70 depending on the location. They preach the gospel according to St. Magnum and usually give truth to the saying        "Better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." I also use a .300  Win mag. but like you usually don't mention it.

[HHI #4694]

For deer sized game the 270 is simply perfect! If we are talking hot handloads, I can squeeze 3,000fps out of a 270 with 150 grain spitzers in a 24" barrel.
I can squeeze 3,000fps out of a good Rem 7mm mag with 175 grain spitzers in a 24" barrel. On game over 500lbs, the 7mm mag does hold a distinct advantage.

[jdt48653]

i have a 264 that im fond of,but i`ve always considered a 270 & 30/06 to
be of magnum class,you don`t need a belt around a cartrige to be a magnum.buy the way i have all of those rifles,and i like them all!

[GTBuzz]

The thought that a .270 Winchester is not entirely adequate for killing deer (which IS what we are talking about here) is simply ridiculous.   The guy is full of baloney and I wouldn't really spend much time thinking about the conversation.  The .270 will kill deer out to ranges most of us shouldn't be shooting at!

Yes, a 7mm RM has more downrange energy than a .270 does; however, a .300 WM has more downrange energy than a 7mm RM does and a .340 Weatherby has more downrange energy than a .300 WM.  Where do you stop?  The bottom line is that a .270 Winchester  has plenty of power for deer.

[Chuck White]

I think that the 270 and 7mm Mag are real close in all-round performance!

One afternoon, in 1974 I left the house, headed for the gunshops and I had already implanted in my mind that I was going to buy a gun that day!  I had made up my mind that it would be a 270 Win. or a 7mm Rem Mag, which ever I could get the best deal on! It just so happened that in the first shop I stopped at, there was a Remington, M-700 BDL 7mm Rem Mag, with a 2.5X8 B&L Scope on consignment with a $150.00 price tag on it, so that's what I got!  I still have this rifle and use it regularly!

On the other hand, you will never hear of me bad mouthing anyone's 270!

[Sask_Hunter]

i got a 7mm and its my faorite rifle.  i have shot 1500rnds through it in the last 18 months.  the recoil is not a disadvantage to me.  if i would have got the same rifle in 270 i would still have the same weight and i would have less bullets to choose from.

i like my dads 270wby alot and think that it is a very very good deer rifle.  if a 270 can do what my 7mm can and some one will give me a good some of money for my 7mm i would day no thanks.

[Wolfe]

Whats the best .270 or 7mm? Whichever one you're comfortable shooting. I have a 7mm that I bought because I wanted to retire grandma's old 30-06.  I chose a 7mag after studying recoil charts, ballistics tables etc. I felt that the 7 mag offered the best mix of power and recoil energy in  readily available ammo.  I missed the old '06 this deer season because it was all I'd ever hunted with.
     270 , 308, 30.06 etc. etc. can't see any reason to pick one over the other for deer sized game at medium ranges. Deer will die dead with well placed shots from any of them.