Author Topic: Executive Orders  (Read 828 times)

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Offline splicer

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Executive Orders
« on: June 01, 2010, 04:27:43 PM »
 Just wondered if anybody has read up on all the executive orders proclaimed by our wonderful leaders.I did a little research starting back in the Carter years,scary stuff. Seems like in the event of an emergency the gov can make you a slave.
    Most seem to be tied to fema,even going as far as seizing all farms and vehicles.crazy stuff.Im kinda thinkin along the lines they plan on implementing their plans very soon.JMO

Offline splicer

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2010, 04:30:44 PM »
 Sorry about double posting but I forgot to add in addition to the patriot act these orders make things look pretty bleak.

Offline Dee

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2010, 04:35:04 PM »
Been watchin it for years. It's amazin no one for the most part seems to notice. A lot is said about he Senate and Congress bailouts under Obama, but Bush's single handed bailout of the auto industry the first time thru executive order is almost never mentioned.
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2010, 05:15:34 PM »
Let me begin by saying that IN NO WAY DO I CONDONE THE ABUSE OF THE EXECUTIVE by anybody at anytime. I'm a minarchist - I want a president for whom it will be a terrible inconvenience for them to serve, who would only take a second term as a last resort with an overwhelming majority vote, and pulling them away from their vocation was a risk to some valuable enterprise, but the potential benefits outweighed the risks.

But trying to step into the shoes of the president for a moment, many if not most of those decisions were made in the context of a crisis. That's a very overwhelming place to be, and the lure of fixing something by decree has got to be very tempting, even for the best of reasons. Here's a scenario ... an EMP has hit the US, and you're the defacto honcho of your town. Everyone is starving and you have a herd of pigs, sheep, cattle that you've been culling efficiently but you're at the crest moment (and it happens in all crisis) where if you don't do something immediately, alot of folks, maybe even folks that will be vital to the long term survival of your town, will die. Slaughtering the animals will fix the immediate problem, but you'll have no new generations of meat producing animals after that. You can order the slaughter, watch some of the best and brightest of your future die off, or go shoot yourself ... what'll it be. I hope to God I am never in that position, so I begin with sympathy.

BTW, I'm not comparing the auto bailout with starvation; they are both threats to the community, but one is of obvious necessity. Does it tear away at the defenses of liberty? yes. Does it place dangerous power in the hands of the government? Yes. Is protection of liberty worth the lives of thousands? I'd have to say yes here, but if one of those thousands were my child or wife ... if the only way to get insulin or crucial meds for them was to give up my guns and move into the FEMA camp ... no one wants to be that guy. But that's exactly the decision being made by some of these executive orders, and I would hope that they rest very heavy on the shoulders of those who make them.
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Offline charles p

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2010, 05:20:22 PM »
Theodore Roosevelt started the first game reserve with an executive order.  It was an island in Fla where birds were being shot for their plumage (ladies hats in NYC).  After being advised that he could protect the birds this way, his famous quote was "I so declare it".  He started many of our national parks and Alaska reserves with executive orders, I believe.

Offline splicer

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2010, 05:26:12 PM »
 Yea I guess some good came from the old school presidents,I just dont think the batch we have nowdays cares much about rights.George Washington used his to declare a national day of thanksgiving.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2010, 05:39:28 PM »
Executive orders are great when great men are giving them.
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Offline nomosendero

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2010, 05:49:13 PM »
Executive orders are great when great men are giving them.

One could feel the same about a King making a law when you have a good King, problem is the next King
could be a bad one & then the people suffer. That's why the Constitution as Law & the the 3 branches with the associated checks and balances is such a wonderful thing, the founders knew what they were doing.
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2010, 06:02:26 PM »
AMEN!
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Offline beerbelly

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2010, 06:27:57 PM »
 TeamNelson you are a great apologist for the death of liberty!
                      Beerbelly

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2010, 07:25:10 PM »
TN you'd be far better off to shoot yourself and your family than be forced into a FEMA slave camp. I have no doubts the result of them one day will make the holocost pale in comparison. You DON'T want to go in a FEMA camp regardless. You will never come out alive.


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Offline teamnelson

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2010, 09:40:32 PM »
TeamNelson you are a great apologist for the death of liberty!
                      Beerbelly
I guess if you actually read my posts I'd be insulted.
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2010, 12:31:17 AM »
TN you'd be far better off to shoot yourself and your family than be forced into a FEMA slave camp. I have no doubts the result of them one day will make the holocost pale in comparison. You DON'T want to go in a FEMA camp regardless. You will never come out alive.

GB, I don't doubt that for a moment ... I've seen Somali & Iraqi refugee camps live and in person in uniform and as a civilian, been to some of the worst hellholes on the planet.

But I would hope that not a person here would easily stand by and watch his granddaughter die of Type 1 diabetes or worse for the cause of liberty, because that will be a choice some here will have to make. I'm not calling anyone out, but unlike a lot of folks I've held dying children in my arms, from all sorts of 2nd & 3rd world issues. The overwhelming vast majority of folks in the US have no clue what that looks like - it's kids on TV and for $30 a month I can fix that. When its your own kid in your own arms and you are helpless to fix it yourself I guarantee there are a lot of things you thought you'd never do just in the hope that someone somewhere can make it all better. Everyone talks brave in peace time, and I hope folks are as dedicated to liberty as they claim - alot of what I see is just selfishness masquerading as patriotism, but not a genuine commitment to true liberty. Because the day is coming soon when we'll all know who was talking a good game in the locker room but didn't bring it on the field.

The system created by the founders was intentionally flawed, and specifically sought gridlock to prevent flagrant abuse of power, but it was also predicated on moral leadership. We don't have moral leadership, and the system is corrupted. But the idea of an executive order was so that in case of gridlock, a moral and sober executive could make a proclamation for the greater good. The erosion of liberty was not accomplished by lawyers ... it was started and fueled by selfish and immoral people who were not content with liberty, but desired license, and voted accordingly. And they got executives that abuse the power. Take democracy to the nth degree and here we are - mob rule. Moral leadership kept that in check, but we don't have that anymore.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2010, 04:51:33 AM »
 TN, there's a big difference in a refugee camp and a camp that folks are herded into such as a FEMA camp. You can walk away from a refugee camp, but a FEMA camp has the barb wire facing INTO the camp to keep you in. Seeing something doesn't always mean you understand the concepts of both, or the difference.
This type of thought is why folks are TRADING LIBERTY FOR A LITTLE TEMPORARY SECURITY, every time they vote the lessor of. There is nothing I can do about this type of voting, but I resent them giving my freedoms away because of their fears, and refusals to stand up and say enough! My Cherokee ancestors were put on RESERVATIONS, which were nothing more than the fore runner of  modern day government FEMA camps. If they ran away they were herded back or shot on site. GET IT? Your example of SURRENDERING YOUR'S, AND YOUR FAMILIES FREEDOM, for a few scraps of food, "TEMPORARY SECURITY", is "youthful judgement" made for TEMPORARY COMFORT. You intentionally put your foot into the trap, with no thought of future.
I had rather be dead, than fed once a day like a dog, and kicked when I was considered to be in the way. You no doubt have seen much, but you may not always grasp everything you see, in the correct context. I have seen much suffering and dying, and killing in my past career, BUT!. When I was you age, I saw it much differently, than now at age 60. My youngest son, with 36 months total of trigger time in the 82nd Airborne, in two separate wars, has seen much also. But there is "much that he does not realize" due to his youthful enthusiasm to be right, and considered knowledgeable.
It is the reason Scripture encourages us to NOT elect young men as Deacons, but instead the more seasoned, older, and experienced men that have been TRIED AND FOUND TRUE, and to be corny, STAYED THE COURSE.

AS FAR AS EXECUTIVE ORDERS? FIND IN THE CONSTITUTION WERE THEY ARE LEGAL. IT IS NOTHING MORE THAN A "ILLEGAL BYPASS" OF THE CONSTITUTION GIVING POWER TO "ONE MAN". YET SOME HERE HAVE IN THEIR MINDS. JUSTIFIED THEM. ::)
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2010, 09:44:43 AM »
Dee, what I posted was a comparison between the severity and gravity of how the Executive Order should be made, and 2 specific hypothetical scenarios. One of those scenarios was whether or not to willfully enter a FEMA camp to get insulin to save the life of a granddaughter. To my mind, an Executive Order should be only made in a situation that dire, and only by a moral leader; I would have great sympathy for anyone faced with such a difficult decision to make. There will be many elderly folks at the FEMA camps, sadly, chasing the promise of security and health care - its a fact that those who are most dependent are the most likely to sacrifice liberty for security.

Now as to what I would do, I've not said - you've assumed much. And from your assumption you went on to publically humiliate me for my age, and then indirectly placed my vocation in question. I've not attacked you or your line of thinking in any way, why did you make it personal?

As to the deaconate, why were they called? To serve tables to free up the disciples to the ministry of the Word.
Acts 6:2-42. Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. 3Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. 4But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. Note that Deacons aren't teachers or authorities; the very word deacon means servant.

What were their qualifications to be? 1 Timothy 3:8-13. 8Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. Maturity might be implied from "first by proved" but that does not necessitate an age.

To whom was this epistle addressed? Timothy, the Pastor, who was a young man called to his role by God, confirmed by Paul, and in this very passage given charge to hold Deacons to the standards. In anticipation of the old bulls trying to bully the young Pastor, Paul tells him in 1 Timothy 4:12, 11These things command and teach. 12Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. No one who knows me has ever accused me of immaturity, in fact at my ordination board to the pastorate a decade ago maturity and wisdom were two of the key confirmations given to my calling noted by many older godly men.

I'll chock up your comment to not knowing me and jumping to conclusions.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2010, 12:11:45 PM »
I'd have to say yes here, but if one of those thousands were my child or wife ... if the only way to get insulin or crucial meds for them was to give up my guns and move into the FEMA camp ... no one wants to be that guy.

This is the inference that I, like others before me understood, that you would at least consider the act.
As far as my reference to Biblical wisdom I was referring to Elders not Deacons although I, and many others consider them the same in most respects. Acts Chapter 11, verse 30, Chapter 15 verse 2, 1st Timothy Chapter 5 vberse 17, Titus Chapter 1 verse 5, James Chapter 5 vere 15, & 1st Peter Chapter 5 verse 1.

Now as far as publicly humiliating you for your age I would say HOGWASH! While you on the other hand purported YOURSELF to have first hand seen refuge camps while other posters her had not, and I on the other hand pointed out that refugee camps and Fema detention camps were not the same.
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

Offline Dee

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2010, 12:23:14 PM »
TN you'd be far better off to shoot yourself and your family than be forced into a FEMA slave camp. I have no doubts the result of them one day will make the holocost pale in comparison. You DON'T want to go in a FEMA camp regardless. You will never come out alive.

GB, I don't doubt that for a moment ... I've seen Somali & Iraqi refugee camps live and in person in uniform and as a civilian, been to some of the worst hellholes on the planet.

But I would hope that not a person here would easily stand by and watch his granddaughter die of Type 1 diabetes or worse for the cause of liberty, because that will be a choice some here will have to make. I'm not calling anyone out, but unlike a lot of folks I've held dying children in my arms, from all sorts of 2nd & 3rd world issues. The overwhelming vast majority of folks in the US have no clue what that looks like - it's kids on TV and for $30 a month I can fix that.

You seem to think that you are the only one to have held children in your arms and watch them die. I have had that experience myself far more than once, possibly before you had a drivers' license yet you speak all knowing here, inferring that YOU HAVE A BETTER GRASP ON THE SITUATION.

 When its your own kid in your own arms and you are helpless to fix it yourself I guarantee there are a lot of things you thought you'd never do just in the hope that someone somewhere can make it all better. Everyone talks brave in peace time, and I hope folks are as dedicated to liberty as they claim - alot of what I see is just selfishness masquerading as patriotism, but not a genuine commitment to true liberty. Because the day is coming soon when we'll all know who was talking a good game in the locker room but didn't bring it on the field.

We all talk big in the locker room you say, and you hope we're as brave and dedicated to liberty as we CLAIM. Rest assured YOUNGSTER, I have been to see the elephant on more than one occasion, and so have many of these guys here. ARE YOU UP TO THE TASK? WILL YOU BE AS BRAVE AS YOU "HOPE" SOME OF US ARE?

Humiliate you publicly? BS! Your arrogant and think you've seen more than folks you've never met. I put the same thing back on you, that you put on them, and you just didn't like it.
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2010, 01:08:05 PM »
Well Dee, I don't purport anything. I am what I say I am, nothing more or less, and I don't begrudge anyone else's experiences or wisdom on any subject. If its something I know about, I speak. If not, I ask or I listen. And if I disagree its on the merit of their comment, not their age, faith, or anything else. So when I say I hope folks are as dedicated to liberty as they claim, I mean it because liberty depends on it. Your own experience in Law Enforcement probably bears out that alot of folks seem brave in training, but fold in the pressure of combat or conflict. Add to that the potential of having to make decisions involving your children or your wife, I really don't believe its going to be a cut and dried decision when it comes to it. And if we're not willing to recognize it now, we're setting liberty up for failure.
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2010, 01:32:04 AM »
Is their anyone on GBO who Dan doesn't argue with? It seem like he is the only one who has experienced anything of means and we are all silly youngsters.  ::)
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Dee

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Re: Executive Orders
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2010, 06:42:31 AM »
TN, appreciate your email. Sometimes it's good to communicate without, outside input, and issues can be cleared one on one. Email again any time. ;)
Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times.