Subsonic .22hornet ?

[Gaz-52]

       
    G'day Fellas. Feel free to re-adjust my thinking if I seem to be barking up the wrong tree.
     I have a .22 hornet Handi rifle ,1:9 twist which shows a preference for 55gn jacketed bullits over the 40 or 45 gn numbers. I suspect the longer bullit stabilises better with the faster twist. I am tempted to try some cast 50 to 70 gn pills over reduced loads to see if i can find an accurate subsonic load .
         Can anyone suggest a safe starting point? I am sure this has been done many times before with other calibres , but these fast twist hornets may have some potential as COL.is not restricted by having to fit in a magazine, which will allow the longer bullits to be seated out further.
         Has anyone else been down this road ?     
                                                              Garry   

 

[mattmillerrx]

I will tell you now I have no experience with the round but I am using Trail Boss for my subsonic loads.  See if you can find some data on it for the hornet.  If not fill the case to the base of your bullet and weight that is you max load.  Start with a 70 percent load and work up till you are happy.  You can verify this data in 2010 hodgen's reloading manual.  Hope this helps.  Oh yeah, I would stick with the 40-45 gr bullets to start with.

[PHATINJUN]

My only experiance w/subs was the 300 Whisper that was a dismal failure for me anyway. But if you are looking for lighter longer bullets try the 36g Varmint Grenades they should work well in your 1-9 Hornet. I can't help you much more than that as my Handi Hornet bbl is 1-16 twist. I would think 13g of Lilgun would make your 1-9 smoke. Kurt

[quickdtoo]

Instructions for using Trail Boss and all their other data can be found on their website.

Tim

http://hodgdon.com/

http://hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

[Dinny]

I just test- fired 6 rounds that are subsonic; three from my 45 LC Handi and two from my .223 Handi(one FTF).  All loaded with TB.  Make no mistake, these loads make noise! They are quieter, not exactly quiet though.

Thanks, Dinny

[gatersb]

i understand why your doing it because i'm going to do it with my 45/70 but it seems it will just be a centerfire version of the 22 SSS round. But still let us know how it turns out all it takes is for one brave soul to do the job and the rest will follow.  Sounds like a cool project.

BG

[PawPaw]

My Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook shows loads for the .22 Hornet with the Lyman 225415 (45 grain bullet.)
Red Dot - 2.0 grains (1060fps)
700X - 2.0 grains (1050 fps)

Those are the two slowest loads they show for that caliber.

[briannmilewis]

Lee Reloading shows one sub-sonic load for the 22 Hornet - 45g bullet - IMR4831 - 11.5c (compressed) - Low Pressure 10.7k CUP - 1085 fps - 1.720 min OAL.

[LaOtto222]

No offense intended here at all, but this all sounds like a sub sonic 22 Long Rifle rimfire with a 45 or 55 grain bullet instead of a 40 grain bullet. You can get a fast twist 22 rimfire barrel and you can get Aquila 60 grain ammo for it at a sub sonic 950 fps. I am shooting sub sonic 38 Special Wad Cutters, because of reduced noise, but also so the bullet does not carry as far as a .222 or .224 bullet and does not richochet as bad either, other wise I would just shoot sub sonic 22s. But hey, any thing you want to do, it is up to you. That is why I like this Country so well - so far. Good Shooting And Good Luck

[GreenMachine79]

Its nice to see some subsonic load data.  I would really like to see subsonic data for the heavier higher bc bullets.  I suspect tat you may start running into a problem of the 1-9 twist being to slow for heavier bullets such as a 69gr or 75gr, if I'm not mistaken the slower subsonic bullets require a even greater twist then the same bullet moving super sonic. 

[spooked]

My Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook shows loads for the .22 Hornet with the Lyman 225415 (45 grain bullet.)
Red Dot - 2.0 grains (1060fps)
700X - 2.0 grains (1050 fps)

Those are the two slowest loads they show for that caliber.

Wowser! 3500 reloads from one pound of powder and a nice squirrel rifle speed..man 'o man a .22 mold and a feller could have some useful, cheap reloads..makes me wanna rethink my hornets!

[Gaz-52]

            G'day fellas,
                           I appreciate the comments & the various links you all posted,there's sure a wealth of experience here. I think I will start out with some 55gn lyman cast, alox lubed bullits over 3gn Adi AP70N with small pistol primers and work down slowly. I will keep you posted re. the results.
                         Garry

[Rustyinfla]

  You might need to be aware that the common line of thinking is that if you're shooting a gas check bullet you need to keep it above 900 FPS to keep the gas check on the shank. At less than that velocity you might find a GC loose in the barrel.

  You can also look up "cat sneeze" loads on the web and you'll find where people have loaded very heavy bullets with very small charges of Bullseye to come up with a quiet subsonic load.

[geezer56]

Try this one.  Fired case-reprimed-thumb press a 22 cal air rifle pellet into the mouth of the case.  More of a pop than a bang, and really fun to play with.  It will remove pigeons and starlings with impressive results.

[bkraft]

That .22 pellet has earned more than one dog their DPHP(Don't Poop Here Degree), especially the bigger ones that don't seem impressed by the ole Crossman.

[gcrank1]

Re. gas checks, at SS you probably dont need them. Try the bullet without and see.

Re. a fast twist (faster than 1:16, the std .22RF) and Aguila SSS (60gr.): Ive played with this idea and had considered using a Handi .223 with a .22RF insert chamber to test it (vs rebarreling a .22RF with a .223 type barrel chambered to .22RF). Has anyone really tried it? I also proposed the concept on another forum and it was reported the SSS ammo was chrono'ed and was quite inconsistant, thus not likely to be accurate after all the trouble. Testing on my 50yd. range in several std .22LRs they work promising out to about 35yd. but 'fall apart' a 50 and on (due to inadequate twist for bullet weight). Lotta punch though.

[Gaz-52]

            Hi Fellas,here is a bit of an update.I loaded some cases with s/pistol primers & AP70N ( UNIQUE) going from 3gn to 2gn in .1gn increments,and seated  55gn gas checked Lyman bullits with OAL 1.850". Then off to my back paddock range for testing.  Well,the shots were definately quieter than your factory hornet loads, I guess similar to .22 LR. The 2.4gn & 2.5gn loads grouped the best of the bunch and i will "play" with them a little more.
            I think i might try a more bulky powder probably Trail Boss as 2gn AP70N does not take up much space in the case. I guess I could use some kind of wad between the powder & the bullit to keep the powder close to the primer. Any ideas re. a suitable material for a wad?
                                             Garry.
             
 
                         

[dovehunter]

I got my Handi .22 Hornet barrel mainly for squirrel hunting anyway.  I wanted something that would emulate a .22 LR.  I have been using Beartooth's 45-gr. LRN gas-checked bullets (sized to .224") over 3 gr. of UNIQUE.  The load came out of the NRA's Reloading Handbook which recommended 3-3.5 gr. of UNIQUE as a good reduced load.  It shoots at or under 1" at 50-yds.  I don't have a chronograph so I don't know what the velocity is, but I have been told that it would be right at or under 1000 fps.  The results on squirrels is about what you would expect when shooting a .22 LR solid point.

[gcrank1]

Re. wadding: In spite of years of use successfully by some, there is substantial evidence now of chamber rings caused by its use. I have seem them and I dont like them at all. The often mentioned Dacron 'fluff' seems to be the worst offender. The damage appears to be cumulative, but can happen quickly. Once you have a ringed chamber there is no fix short of a new, larger rechamber or a new barrel.
Considering that I like my barrels, I no longer will use 'wadding'.
Fillers are another matter (such as COW or Cornmeal) but never to be used in bottleneck cases as it can pull a neck off a case leaving it stuck in your bore. In straight cases it is OK but raises ejecta weight and increases pressures.
You can ensure the powder is back against the primer for consistancy by chambering the cartridge and tipping the barrel up, then lowering to level to sight and shoot.

[Gaz-52]

                Yes, gcrank1, have just been reading some posts re.wadding & it's effects. I think I will "pass" on using fillers altogether. Trail boss option is looking good.  I would like to get the noise level down a bit . I have a Maramer sheep guarding dog which will head for the hills at the sound of a shot much louder than a .22lr. ,and it would be great if I didn't have to chain her up every time I want to take a potshot at a crow or a feral dog, rabbit etc. Anyway , it's all very interesting just what can be 'squeezed' out of the old hornet, I have been going through some early posts on some of the other forums. There is heaps of info out there , it just takes a bit of trawling to find the relevant pieces.
                                 It's all good.
                                   Garry

[gcrank1]

Garry, Ya gotta respect that dogs ears, for sure, they are great mates! Ive shot more than 3K cast lead bullets in (mostly 1 rifle) .22H, up and down the velo, and always came back to about 2.6 of 700X or RedDot and about 3 of Unique. Yeah, hardly a Hornet, but with the 45gr bullet I had more thwack than a .22LR and cheap to shoot. I wish I had then a faster than 1:16 twist so I could have used heavier bullets, but it was not to be.
Now I have a 25-20WCF which gives me up to about 85gr, but the b/c isnt much better than the Hornet though the wind bucking is.
Are you on the 'typical' (to us in USA) sheep station. Ive often wished I could visit OZ, but at least I have forum friends there now.

[NFG]

Dacron filer material is available and works in some applications.  You have to add the weight of the wadding to the weight of the bullet as wadding is "ejecta" weight when calculating or working out loads.

The dacron will hold the powder in place for a bit if handled carefully but WON'T keep it there much longer than taking the round from standing straight up to the chamber and firing once.

The "popcorn" used to keep shotgun pellets in place can be used and compressed slightly and will keep the powder down and not moving a bit longer than dacron but it's weight also has to be added to the bullet weight.

Dealing with reduced loads and "space filling materials" has always been an "iffy" proposition to me.  I've played with a few over the years, but never found any that completely satisfied my in all aspects.

I always tried to find a powder that would fill the case to the base of the seated bullet if possible and was slow enough to give me the lower velocity and noise level but didn't require fillers and not was less than about 70% case volume.

You might try SR4759...it is a VERY bulky powder, even bulkier than say 4831, about the same burn rate as W296/H4227.  Start low and expect a few squibs.

If I wanted a "reduced" load I just made/bought/acquired a smaller cased caliber to use.

"Suppressors" can be used if they are lawful.

Keeping the velo below ~1100 fs(speed of sound at sea level) will help.

I've used 22 shorts and CB caps in towns many times and there are air rifles that will take care of most varmints withing 50 yds that are VERY quiet...

My Diana Mod 48 airgun in .177 cal is a rat killing machine when I deck my ATV out in camo and drive around the fields...I can take out several potguts in one area while the others just watch and wait their turn...they can't match the "Phffft" or the covered ATV with a preditor or danger...and the smell of blood and dead cousins just makes them hungry so they go into a feeding frenzy.   Hahahahahahaha

Luck

[Rustyinfla]

  GAZ, since you're down under aren't mufflers (suppressors) much easier to get than they are here?

  I was even told by one of your countrymen once that some people there think that shooting without one is considered poor manners.

[Gaz-52]

           G'day Fellas        No, Rusty ,no "suppressors" here.Unless you mean the "fun police". Our Kiwi cousins in N.Z.can use silencers legaly. They have big problems with possums which some fool took there from Australia . They thrived and have become a real problem.Legal silencers ,don't upset the neighbours. How
civilised is that?  Hey ,gcrank ,i may well wind up back at the 3gn unique /ap70n option as well. There are not as many options with powders here ,but Trail boss is made here by A.D.I. (sold as hogden in usa i believe),and is readily available with western action shooting competition being popular.This handi hornet is a different animal altogether to my old 340e savage, i guess thats half the fun ,getting to know what they shoot best.
           No, mate,I don't live on a sheep station . We have 55acres (elbow room ) and we run a small herd ,around15/20 cows &calves plus about the same number of Dorper  sheep. It's on the lower slopes of a small mountain, (or maybe it's a large hill)  which is a national park. In drytimes ,the wild dog / dingo population does it pretty tough and come down looking for a feed,but domestic dogs do more stock damage than dingoes around here.A quieter than normal hornet load pushing a 55/60gn cast bullit  starts to make a bit of sense. Most of the neighbouring properties are 40 to 60 acres,Hobby Farms we call them, so high powered rifles are really not an option. Really my favorite walk around rifle is a savage 24 .22lr/20g ,but if I said that I would probably get BARRED from the forum