A modern .280 Ross or equivalent?

[Brithunter]

For about as long as I can remember the 280 Ross cartridge has been a desirable one for me along with one of their fine quality rifles. However the problems of sourcing Ross cartidge cases makes it shall we say difficult. So my thoughts have been turning to a modern easily obtained case to produce the Ross type performance but without a belted magnum case.

So looking at things and comparing data it would seem that the .280 Remington Ackley Improved would meet the critera. The base to build this on should I manage to raise the funds for a new barrel is a mid 1960s BSA Monarch 1st pattern currently wearing a worn .270 win barrel. Am currently seeking quotes for the re-barrel and so far they have almost induced a heart attack as most are quoting in the £550- £700 ($825-$1050 US) that includes fitting, chambering, proofing and re-bluing and that's for a std chamber not an AI.

They have made it almost impossible to buy a barrel blank now which does not require a licence as it's just a tube with grooves in the bore, it becomes licencable once it's chambered and threaded as a pressure bearing componant. If I could obtain a a 0.284" blank I could probably do the job myself once I make up a barrel vice and action wrench, the reamer woud be the stumbling block at the moment  . Even buying a blank from the US now is very difficult to nigh on impossible. Oh well I am sure we will find a way to get over the hurdles.

What do you think of the basic idea?

Of course a decent length barrel of say 26" would probably be best 

Am I nuts or just misguided ?

[roper]

The only bullet the 280 Ross shot that would be equal to 7mm was a 140gr @2900/3000fps.  My 280 24" long barrel gave 2900fps plus with 140gr bullet haven't shot 140gr in the 280AI.  I just started loading for the 280 it's a factory rifle and I'm sure mid 3000fps is possible.

Can you find bullets for the 280 Ross seen where they had a dia of .287/.289?

Is Borders the only one over their UK that makes barrels?

[Dave in WV]

Go with the 7mm Winchester short mag. You can always load it down (or up). It's a standard chambering, brass is available (at least here), and you don't have to fire form the brass. Your rifle will most likely need some feed rail work with the Ackley Improved cartridge too so that's a tie.

[Brithunter]

Thank you for your ideas and comments however it appears I did not make it clear on some points.

A magnum case and a belted magnum case is not even in the equation .................... no way no how otherwise I would simply make it a 7mm rem mag or buy one. There is no way I would consider a short obortion. Why waste a nice long action on one of those? Especially as it's quite likely it will go the way of the .280 Ross and become extinct.

  Now the original ballistics for the .280 Ross was a 140 grain bullet at 3100 fps. The H.P White lab chronographed it at 3050fps so not bad the 50fps difference could be temperture of just the varience between two barrels.

 In Ackleys handbook he claims 60 Grains of IMR 4064 gave 3200fps with the 140 grain bullet and 62 grains of IMR 3450 gave 2965 FPS with the 160 grain bullet. The most he managed from the .280 Remington was 2960 FPS from 58 grains of IMR 4831 and the 140 grain bullet and 2960 FPS using 53 grains of IMR 4350 with the 160 grain bullet.

As for feedrail work with the AI version we will see how it goes I have a Century Arms P-14 sporter that has been reamed to .303 IMP and that feeds just fine but of course that is a control round feed and not a push feed like the BSA Monarch.

For the .280 AI he claims a velocity of 3320 FPS with the 140 grain bullet using 63 grains of IMR 4350 and 3070 FPS with the 154 grain bullet using 60 grains of IMR 4350 using 54 grains of IMR 4350. That seems a popular powder with these .280's. The larger diameter bullets used by the Ross is another reason why I am considering a more modern version so I can use the std 0.284" daimeter bullets. I have on hand Hornady 139 Grn BTSP's and some 175 Grain Reminton pointed that came from Midway in their bulk packs.

Now Ken Waters managed to get 2933 Fps out fo the 7mm Rem Express with the 140 grain partition bullet

[mauser98us]

One has a few options . Will list them and what I know about them.
7mm Improved Arch. Based on a 6.5 Swedish case.  139 gr.@3129 fps.
.285 OKH. Based on 30-06. 145 gr@3023 fps.

7mm06 Improved {Ackley} basically the same a .280 Improved  140 gr@3132.

Looked at my resources and Saturn Gun Shop out of Sparks Nevada did not offer any of the ICL flying Saucer versions for the .284 bore size.

[Brithunter]

Thank you,

I had not heard of the :-

7mm Improved Arch. Based on a 6.5 Swedish case. 

Well it's Sunday now so I will have to wait for Monday to roll around to see if the few culprits I can think of may have suitable reamers. I guess Norman Clark of Rugby is a likely one he is well into improved cartridges then I will speak to the chaps at Rhino rifles and see what they have to say  . Plus I will phone Knibbs International and enquire if they have any 7mm BSA barrels as it should be possible to re-chamber one either from 7mm Mauser or 7x64. There is also an outside chance that Norman might have a new Parker-Hale barrel in 7mm that would likely be the cheapest option open providing it could be adapted to the BSA action. Trying to get a machined blank from Brownells or Midway seems to be out of the running but I will e-mail and find out the proceedure but it looks like you need to be a Dealer to do so now  .

I will enquire with a couple of barrel makes and see if it's possible to get one and/or look at the cost of sending the action to then for barreling. I can dispose of the old barrel and get it signed off the licence this end. You just don't realise how easy you have it!

[charles p]

I have a 26" SS Shilen match grade barrel on a M700 chambered in 280AI.  The rifle started its life as a 30-06, then was rebarreled.

Is permitting impossible in the UK or does it just take time?

[mauser98us]

Oh I forgot about 7mm Gibbs

[Siskiyou]

Have you thought about going the route of a Nosler 280 AI?  There is a source of brass and ammunition.

You might talk to these folks and see what they can do for you.

http://www.midwayuk.com/apps/ebrowse.exe/browse?categoryid=19210&categorystring=9315+***+652+***+670+***+9013+***

This is what Nosler is getting out of its 280 IA.  This link is just to show what the ammo is rated at.  But you might be able to work something with MidwayUK.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=442246

I think the powders in the IMR4350 and IMR4831 burning range are a good fit.  #2 brother has owned two or three 280/7MM Remington Express rifles over the years.  I am surprised he has not gone the AI version, but he recently installed a 26-inch barrel on one.  He has had good results with AA4350, IMR4350, and IMR4831.

Nosler is producing their custom rifle in 280IR with a 24-inch barrel.  I wonder if their advertised 280AI ammunition achieves its velocity in a 24-inch barrel.
http://www.nosler.com/tgr.html

Nosler reloading data for the 280AI
http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=15&b=7mm&s=172

[Coyote Hunter]

The only bullet the 280 Ross shot that would be equal to 7mm was a 140gr @2900/3000fps.  My 280 24" long barrel gave 2900fps plus with 140gr bullet haven't shot 140gr in the 280AI.  I just started loading for the 280 it's a factory rifle and I'm sure mid 3000fps is possible.

Roper -

A 140g @ 2900/3000fps DOES NOT equal what a 7mm RM is capable of.  Not even close.  Try 3300+fps for the 7mm RM in a 24" barrel.

[roper]

The only bullet the 280 Ross shot that would be equal to 7mm was a 140gr @2900/3000fps.  My 280 24" long barrel gave 2900fps plus with 140gr bullet haven't shot 140gr in the 280AI.  I just started loading for the 280 it's a factory rifle and I'm sure mid 3000fps is possible.

Roper -

A 140g @ 2900/3000fps DOES NOT equal what a 7mm RM is capable of.  Not even close.  Try 3300+fps for the 7mm RM in a 24" barrel.

   

I was talking about bullets the 280 Ross is not a 7mm it's .287.  Brithunter was looking for "case to produce the Ross type performance". 

[Coyote Hunter]

I was talking about bullets the 280 Ross is not a 7mm it's .287.  Brithunter was looking for "case to produce the Ross type performance". 

Seems like a .280 Rem or a 7mm RM loaded down would be practical choices, at least here in the states.  I would think a 7mm RM would be available on the other side of the pond without too much trouble.  If not, what the heck - get a .30-06 and run 150's or 165's, seasoned to taste.

[Brithunter]

I was talking about bullets the 280 Ross is not a 7mm it's .287.  Brithunter was looking for "case to produce the Ross type performance". 

Seems like a .280 Rem or a 7mm RM loaded down would be practical choices, at least here in the states.  I would think a 7mm RM would be available on the other side of the pond without too much trouble.  If not, what the heck - get a .30-06 and run 150's or 165's, seasoned to taste.

Ok I think we will drop it on the forums as it seems although a few have tried to help with suggestions and information ........................... and I thank them for that  others are not reading what I am actually wanting to achieve  .

Once I get it done, providing I can source a barrel of course  , I will post how it came out.

This is not the reply originally planned but it seems to have vanished into the cyberspace void so i'll call it a day ........................... Monday will be good enough i think  . Toodle Pip!

[moorepower]

Can you get a barrel from border barrels?

[charles p]

Nothing wrong with the 280 Ackley if you want a 26" barrel to carry around.  Mine is a safe queen.

[FN in MT]

  I'm a big .280 Rem/.280 AI fan. Both cartridges have been very good to me on the hunting fields.

  Very easy to fireform brass for the AI, only reason I could see to pay Noslers SILLY prices for preformed and properly headstamped brass would be to fulfill some law requiring the headstamp to match the barrel engraving...as in a few African countries.

  The AI version MAY give you as much as +150 fps over the same slug in a std two eighty. But that would have to be a 26" bbl.  In the shorter bbl's the gains can be pretty low.

  My first .280 AI I took four cases and after properly fireforming and trimming...loaded them twelve times with no apparent damage, no major case stretch, etc. As old PO Ackley mentioned...the AI case do generally NOT require trimming.  My old M-70 in .257 Roberts AI is the same...cases seldom need to be trimmed.

 I am probably NOT loading to MAX but seldom do in anything. My 26" HART barreled .280 AI yields 3100 fps with 150 gr NP's and 3200 fps with 139 gr Hornady's.

 FN in MT

 

[Brithunter]

Can you get a barrel from border barrels?

Sorry have not been well.

In answer to your question yes however I do not have the facility to get a mortage to buy one. Just checked the price on thei eb site and to get the contour I want would be $1035US Oh and they do list the .280AI. That's fr a cut rifled barrel. they don't offer the profile choices in their Button rifled "Archer" barrel range.