I found some cast bullet data in the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook. I just put together some 60, 75 and 87 grain loads with 4227, and will try them with the iron sights this afternoon, my wife wants to go out for lunch first. Deer with the 256? I had not thought of that, but with a properly placed shot it would work. John Wooters thought a lot of the 25 Copperhead. I will see what I can do with the woodchucks and post some pictures. Shotgunner