who reloads 357 max for handi's, I got some ?'s

[Gallahad]

I searched around the net, (Which I am apparently VERY poor at  ) and figured the best thing to do is ask the nef guys. I have reloaded the 357 max for a ruger revolver, but not for the handi rifle. I would like to hear of some safe (in terms of pressure) but stout/high velocity loads using 180 gr. bullets. I really don't know where to begin with powder, but would like one that fills the case behind the bullet if possible. Forgive me If this has been covered,  Like I said, I seem to be somewhat computer illiterate.  Thanks!

[canon6]

i reload for the Maxi, using Cast Perfromance 187grain FNGC on top of a stout charge of Hodgdon LilGun.In my 18inch barrel they are just short of 2100fps.That load is very consistant .I am using CCI small rifle primers. 
I am sure others will chime with ,loads for the "J" word bullets        hth    Doug

[quickdtoo]

This should give you a head start.

Tim

http://357maximum.com/

http://www.ottllc.com/specialtypistols/sp10.html

[Gallahad]

Hey quickdtoo, in the second link there, none of his charts (load data) were up. Looked like it was exactly what I was looking for too.

[Badnews Bob]

I have my best loads using IMR4227 but AA1680 works real well also. I get an easy 200fps with 180gr Hardcast LBT style of bullet.

[quickdtoo]

Hey quickdtoo, in the second link there, none of his charts (load data) were up. Looked like it was exactly what I was looking for too.

Here ya go...

http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2006/02/blog-post_01.html

[Gallahad]

I don't know how you do it Quick, but THANK YOU! regarding the other link:

 "Since 1680 is really verging on being too slow burning for the .357 Maximum I could safely compress more and the chances of over pressure is virtually impossible.  Johan estimated the pressure of my 28.0 grain load to be 43,000-45,000 psi and well within the caliber’s envelope and the T/C gun I am using."

Is it safe to assume this is a safe load in a handi?

[quickdtoo]

Depends on whether your 357Max is on an SB1 or SB2 frame, I'd be carefully loading over 40kpsi on an SB1 frame, primer issues will likely be the biggest problem, but there are many members here shooting SB1 Maxis with no problems, just do careful load work and start low and work up slowly watching for problems.

Tim

[quickdtoo]

Here's some data I forgot.

Tim

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Handgun/Standarddata/35738Cal(9.2mm)/357%20Remington%20Maximum%20page%20105.pdf

[Gallahad]

sb2 stainless! 45-70 frame

[quickdtoo]

Load'er up!! Mine is on SB2 frame also, I haven't shot it yet as a Max, waiting for a dry day, but I just loaded the 180gr Speer FP up to 28½gr AA1680, it's loaded very long with just .200" bullet seated, but it's .010" off the lands seated that long, used the Lee factory crimp die to make sure there was sufficient neck tension and bullet pull. My Lee seater die didn't work very well with that bullet, so I seated with an RCBS 35 Rem seating die, checked the runout at less the .002", so it should shoot real good. 

Tim

[Gallahad]

nuther thought, hornady has a 200 gr. flex tip for 35 rem. has a bc of .300 designed for @1500-2200 fps. at least thats what there load data shows. I'm always rather reluctant to work up loads that I don't see published even though I know the signs of high pressure. I wonder what kind of velocity you could get out of a max? Hornady loads 35 rem to OVER 2200fps in their ammo, but lists reload data @ 200 fps slower.

[quickdtoo]

Hornady uses a proprietary powder in the loaded ammo that keeps pressures within the SAAMI limit to protect the older guns, us mortals don't have access to that powder.

Tim

[Badnews Bob]

I get 2000fps easy out of mine useing 180gr bullet and 21grs or IMR 4227 and I know I don't load them near as hot as I could. I think 2000+ would be rather easy with a 200gr slug. The max out of a handie will out do a lot of factory loadings in the .35 rem.

[quickdtoo]

The 35 Rem has a big advantage in case capacity over the Max, 50.8 gr water for the 35 Rem compared to 32.7 gr for the Max, factory 200gr loads run over 2200fps, that's about what the Max can do with 180gr loads. 

Tim

That little one on the left is the Max. 
http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/aicompare.cgi?sn=VgbebvrUbA&loadset=49&xxglbl=1

http://www.suitorsgarage.com/gunstuff/35remington/factoryloadpart1.html

[Gallahad]

Call me crazy, but I think trajectory for that 200 gr. flex tip (.300 bc.) going 2000 fps (if thats do-able in the max) would be as good as the 180 gr. ssp (.248 bc.) at 2200 fps. PLUS be a bit more bullet for game, and it also has that neat red tip.

[quickdtoo]

I wouldn't get too excited over the 200gr FTX, not a great deal of difference ballistically....except the sexy red tip!!

Tim

Trajectory for Hornady .358 dia. 180 gr. SP-SSP Interlock at 2200 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.248   0.248   0.248   0.248   0.248
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2200 2200 2200 2200
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2200.0   1934.1   1.76   0.0   -1.7   0.0   0.000000000
25   2119.3   1794.8   1.69   -0.23   -0.07   0.0   0.034734434
50   2040.3   1663.4   1.63   -0.94   1.08   0.0   0.070803188
75   1963.0   1539.9   1.57   -2.18   1.7   0.0   0.108280073
100   1887.6   1423.8   1.51   -3.98   1.76   0.0   0.147243141
125   1814.1   1315.1   1.45   -6.39   1.21   0.0   0.187774469
150   1742.6   1213.5   1.39   -9.46   0.0   0.0   0.229959002
175   1673.3   1118.8   1.34   -13.25   -1.93   0.0   0.273883263
200   1606.3   1031.0   1.28   -17.81   -4.63   0.0   0.319634153
225   1541.7   949.8   1.23   -23.21   -8.17   0.0   0.367298318
250   1479.8   875.0   1.18   -29.53   -12.63   0.0   0.416959014
275   1420.7   806.6   1.14   -36.84   -18.08   0.0   0.468692748
300   1364.6   744.1   1.09   -45.23   -24.61   0.0   0.522566907


Trajectory for Custom .358 Hornady 200gr FTX at 2000 Feet per Second
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.3   0.3   0.3   0.3   0.3
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2000   2000   2000   2000
Wind Direction is: 0.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 0.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0   Cross Range: 0.0   Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 0 Feet with a Standard Atmospheric Model.
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units
Range   Velocity   Energy   Momentum   Drop   Bullet Path   Wind Drift   Time of Flight
(Yards)   (Ft/Sec)   (Ft/Lbs)   (Lb-Sec)   (inches)   (inches)   (inches)   (Seconds)
0   2000.0   1776.1   1.78   0.0   -1.7   0.0   0.000000000
25   1936.8   1665.6   1.72   -0.28   0.17   0.0   0.038107371
50   1874.8   1560.7   1.66   -1.13   1.46   0.0   0.077466285
75   1814.2   1461.4   1.61   -2.61   2.13   0.0   0.118133458
100   1754.9   1367.5   1.56   -4.74   2.14   0.0   0.160167082
125   1697.2   1278.9   1.51   -7.58   1.45   0.0   0.203626244
150   1640.9   1195.6   1.46   -11.18   0.0   0.0   0.248570337
175   1586.3   1117.3   1.41   -15.58   -2.26   0.0   0.295058869
200   1533.4   1044.0   1.36   -20.84   -5.37   0.0   0.343150562
225   1482.3   975.6   1.32   -27.03   -9.42   0.0   0.392901549
250   1433.2   912.0   1.27   -34.21   -14.45   0.0   0.444363897
275   1386.0   853.0   1.23   -42.45   -20.54   0.0   0.497584710
300   1341.1   798.5   1.19   -51.81   -27.76   0.0   0.552603888

[wreckhog]

Hornady uses a proprietary powder in the loaded ammo that keeps pressures within the SAAMI limit to protect the older guns, us mortals don't have access to that powder.

Tim

The way that Hornady explains, since they are not already in the powder business, the cost of bringing any of their powders to market is way more than they could hope to make back in the short term. That said, some of their rifle powders have sort of been reverse engineered, and appear to be duplex (combinations), which is a big no-no for home reloaders. That is a problem for calibers like the .308MX which only exist as factory Hornady loads and which cannot be matched in performance by home reloaders.

[dpe.ahoy]

It wouldn't make alot of sense to have your powder provider start selling the one thing that has you ahead of the pack for the rest of the ammo makers.  Not good business practice.  DP

[Gallahad]

OK, OK, The 180 is flatter. now if only there were a little yellow smiley face with a foot being inserted into it's mouth I'd be all set!    Still at 200 yds. its only 3" lower. Thats pretty good. As I understand it, folks hve been taking seater plugs out of 35 rem dies so they dont get deformed tips loading the max. I can't seem to find seater plugs (for lee dies) for sale by themselves. AND will a rifle die seater plug fit into a pistol die? I personally never tried it.

[quickdtoo]

I only have one Lee rifle die, the seater plug wouldn't work in the pistol die, it's a different diameter, the Lee 357 seater could be made to work by drilling a hole in it IF you can be sure to get it centered which doesn't look easy to do, Lee might make one for it too.

Tim

[wreckhog]

RCBS sells the seater plugs for 3 different .357 tip shapes. I have em. Dunno if they work in other dies.

[clearwater]

Call me crazy, but I think trajectory for that 200 gr. flex tip (.300 bc.) going 2000 fps (if thats do-able in the max) would be as good as the 180 gr. ssp (.248 bc.) at 2200 fps. PLUS be a bit more bullet for game, and it also has that neat red tip.

Lyman lists their 170 grain flat point cast bullet as having a BC of .286 which is better than the jacketed 180 pointy speers and hornady bullets.

Have they ginned up the numbers a bit, or is their something about pistol or cast bullets I don't know about.

[parson48]

Apologies for straying, but can anyone tell me where to find psi figures for 357 max?

I have come across some cup numbers but, as I understand, its difficult, if not impossible, to translate these figures to psi.

I ask because I'm getting ready to ream one that is on a sb1 frame.

Thanks for any help.

Bill

[gcrank1]

Bullets with similar BCs, regarless of caliber, fired at the same (or close) velocity will have the same trajectory. So even if they arent 'exactly' the same are you going to care about 1/4" or even 1/2" at distance? The real world issue is if the bullet will deliver the intended result on game at whatever retained velo it has where it strikes the critter. If you are just punching steel or holes in paper, no problem.

[quickdtoo]

Apologies for straying, but can anyone tell me where to find psi figures for 357 max?

I have come across some cup numbers but, as I understand, its difficult, if not impossible, to translate these figures to psi.

I ask because I'm getting ready to ream one that is on a sb1 frame.

Thanks for any help.

Bill

The SAAMI MAP for the 357 Maximum is 40kpsi.

Tim

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

[parson48]

Thanks Tim,

Now, let's see if I've got it right: SAAMI lists 40k psi as limit for 357 max, which is also the upper limit suggested for the sb1 frame.

This should mean that loads listed in reputable manuals ought to be safe?

Bill

[gcrank1]

Yes,....BUT
With that particular set of components
In that test platform
On that day
And that tempereature
Etc.
Thats why all the manuals give you the caveat,'start low and proceed with caution, watching for signs of pressure'.

[quickdtoo]

.

[clearwater]

Load'er up!! Mine is on SB2 frame also, I haven't shot it yet as a Max, waiting for a dry day, but I just loaded the 180gr Speer FP up to 28½gr AA1680, it's loaded very long with just .200" bullet seated, but it's .010" off the lands seated that long, used the Lee factory crimp die to make sure there was sufficient neck tension and bullet pull. My Lee seater die didn't work very well with that bullet, so I seated with an RCBS 35 Rem seating die, checked the runout at less the .002", so it should shoot real good. 

Tim

Is that a full case? or do you have room for more?