help, contender popped open at the shot

[Scibaer]

i was shooting , what i thought were ok loads, not super hot, within SAAMI loads
but after the 3rd shot, my pre-g2 popped open, not severly but it did break open.
so, now what do i do ?
any advice or help would be appreciated

[Slowpoke Slim]

Definitely going to need way more info than that to be any help to you at all.

Was this a new (to you) barrel? Have you ever shot it on that frame before? Was this a new frame (to you)? What was the cartridge, load, etc. Have you had any trouble with that barrel or frame before? Are the barrel lugs original, modified, look ok?

Details please.

[Scibaer]

the barrel and frame are both used , and they have not been shot together before.
i only recently got both pieces, but the parts looked ok with no noticable defects. no modifications to the lugs or frame.
 the load was a max charge 240 grain .44 mag load .
on lower power loads, there was no pop open problems
it only started popping open with the max loads , powder was IMR4227
and on the 3rd shot, the action opened up
i shot it again and got the same results
and i have not tried to fire it again before getting some advice, i dont want to wreck anything more then i think i have now

[Slowpoke Slim]

What happens when you try a different barrel on that same frame? Same question what happens when you try that 44 barrel on a different frame? How does the tension on the bolt spring feel on that 44 barrel, compare it to the spring tension on another barrel? Do you have a known good barrel that you can swap the barrel lugs and spring on? Then try the 44 barrel again with the other lugs and spring?

What exactly is a "max" charge of IMR 4227?

I've run some pretty stiff loads through my 45-70 and 45 Colt bbls and early frames and never had one pop open. It sounds like the lugs on that barrel may not fit that frame right. Of course it could be something worse, but lets start there first.

[Scibaer]

i dont have any other barrels or frames, to swap around with.
so i dont have anything to compare it too, but it closes up tight and i have to squeeze it fairly hard to get it to open wether its been fired or not
the load that causes a pop open is, IMR4227 @ 23 grains pushing a 240 grain, cast lead semi wadcutter
 now when i close it, its "notchy" feeling not smooth, like the barrel lugs are hitting something before they engauge whatever it is they lock against

[Slowpoke Slim]

What serial number range is your frame? Give me all but the last 2 or 3 digits, say it's: 1234xx with the x's as place holders of the last digits.

You'll need to take the barrel off the frame for the next bit...

[Scibaer]

my frame is a 1979 , cougar on the cliff, 1166**
barrel is off the frame
 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Ok, that's good, I was afraid you had one of the later weld-in breech block versions that may have a much more significant problem.

My frame pictured here is from the same era as yours. If you look into the front of the frame, does it look like this:





Looking particularly at the interlock safety (looks kind of like a butterfly valve), does yours look like that, in that position?

[Scibaer]

yes mine looks identical and its in the same position
 here is what my barrel looks like

[SHOOTALL]

mark the bolts on the bbl. the wedge looking parts at the bottom of the lug. Use a black marker and cover the contact areas . then close the gun . open and check to see if the marking is disturbed at least half way up on the wedge as it should be . If not you can order bolts or springs or send gun in for fitting if that is the problem. Often when getting several used bbls it is best to send all to TC and have them fitted to your frame.

[Slowpoke Slim]

Sounds like your frame may not be the issue. Call TC and have them send you a set of locking bolts, put them in and you should be fine. They are very easy to swap.

[Slowpoke Slim]

Oh, and I almost forgot. 23 grs of 4227 is right up there. The Hodgdon website lists 22.0 grs as max with a lead 240 gr bullet, and that's a compressed charge. My 2 Lyman manuals list 24.0 grs as max, but from my experience Lyman's version of "max" has always been pretty darn hot, and most of my guns hit max pressure before I get there.

Maybe try backing down the powder a bit, the groups will probably be better anyway.

Just my 2 centavos.

[Scibaer]

ok i cover the lugs in black marker
i closed up the barrel to the frame 3 times
 there hardly is any place that the marker ink came off the lugs..
 there is a bit at the ends, and some where the lugs slide into the part of the barrel ( i dont know what the proper terms are )
 but at the beveled edges, on ink was removed
see pics

[shot1]

That max load is for a revolver with a cylinder gap to let pressure out not a solid breach contender. I have always found that you need to start low and work up loads for the contenders. You will get much more velocity with the contender with much less powder than in a revolver in 44 mag. Loads that my 357 mag wheel guns handle very easy I would not even think of using in my contender. It could also be that after you fired a few of the lead bullets with those smoken loads that your bore retained some lead and thus caused the pressure to rise because the bullets could not get down the bore as easy as when cleaner.

[Scibaer]

ok so if i call TC customer service and tell them i need the locking bolts, they will just send new ones out to me ?
who should i talk too ?

 the 23 grains is listed in my 48th edition lyman manual. and its healthy in muzzle blast, although recoil wasnt bad at all.
accuracy at 100 yards was pretty good with the open sights, about 2 inch groups. but i had a pop open, so i stopped right there
backing down on the powder charge or even changing powders is definately in order. i dont want to wreck my gun or me.

assuming my frame is not whacked, i change out the locking bolts and i'm good to go ?
by the way, thanks much to all who helped me here with this problem, this is my first and only contender, and im still learning

[Slowpoke Slim]

Call TC and tell them you need a set of locking lugs for a Contender. Yes, they should just send them right out to you in the mail.

This number should still be good:

603-332-2333

or try:

tech@tcarms.com

I'm not sure if the email will still work, they've made a lot of changes over there since being bought out.

Start off by changing those locking lugs. They should have made marks into the marker ink from being opened and closed once, let alone 3 times. They're not engaging the frame properly.

I would only look at the frame again after you try the new lugs and if it's doing the same thing (which I doubt it will).

[Scibaer]

ok i'll call and get them sent out.
 the next logical question is, how do i go about changing them out ?
 after looking at the setup, it seems like i should compress the lugs then tap out the roll pin and slowly release the lugs ?
is there any fitting or filing to be done ?

[lynneil]

FYI
T/C was very hesitant to send me a locking bolt when I called about 2 months ago. I really had to plead with the women over the phone. I finally received a set. I first tried by e-mail and was refused even when I was willing to PAY.

[Scibaer]

well, i just spent 10 minutes with a woman at customer service at TC.
they will not send me the locking bolts.
i can send in my barrel and they will put them in, and i guess thats ok.
but i dont know what that will cost me.
i'm going to call back and see if i get someone else or the same woman, and find out what the charges will be

[blhof]

You can send the barrel by regular mail, only the frames require special shipping as per BATF.  Be sure to pack well and insure for full value.

[Pin Shooter]

There is one other possibility.  How many fingers do you have in or on the gurard/opening lever?  If you have your trigger finger in the guard and have a second below on the lever, the recoil will cause the second finger to pull the lever opening the gun.  I know because I have done this myself.

[Scibaer]

i thought of that too, and made sure that was not happening.
  i had someone who has fired contenders before shoot it, and it popped open for him too
 

[P.A. Myers]

Surface 'A' in the picture is too short to hold the barrel. T/C will send you a new lug. It will need to be fitted. I did this to a barrel [removed too much] got the same results you did. Same fix required.

[SHOOTALL]

If you live in or near Va. B C automotive has the parts you need , he had bolts and springs . If not check to see if you have anyone who sets up IMHSA guns they may have the parts on hand .

[Groo]

Groo here
 I believe you have a weak spring on the looking lugs, contact SSK they use much heaver ones
on the HandCanions

[Scibaer]

i resolved the problem with my contender.
i sold it.  i was straight up with the problems, gave with it a box of ammo and the extra grip and the case.
the guy was happy to have it for $300
i put that money towards a new ruger.
 and no more contenders for me.
i do appreciate everyones help, but after talking to the service dept. at TC and trying to get this gun to run right, i figured i may not be the right guy to have a contender.
so i moved onward.
 the guy who got it, assures me that he will get new parts and get it shooting right.
he's happy , i'm happy

[Keith L]

I agree with you, that if this spoils your fun with a Contender then you will be happier with something else.  Enjoy whatever it is.  All this should be fun.

[SHOOTALL]

I did the same thing over 10 years ago . And love my Ruger RH, what did ya get ?

[Scibaer]

i got the ruger blackhawk in .45 colt. satin finish with rosewood grips.
 i wanted a contender for years, and when i started getting into hunting with a handgun , i went out  and got the contender.
after changing out the grips, i still had problems, and the pop open put me over the top.
for the money,  i could have done better, and i finally figured that out.

[SHOOTALL]

Good luck with the Ruger a fine gun .