Author Topic: quick question on Foreign aid  (Read 916 times)

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Offline Foxxtrot

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quick question on Foreign aid
« on: March 12, 2010, 07:54:11 AM »
The USA is a wealthy country, but if we give millions/billions of dollars in foreign aid should the American people get to decide who gets it ....if at all?

If we didn't give it....would our tax burden be much less? How much of this foreign aid is ever paid back?

Just seems like another form of entitlement for people that live outside of the USA.

Just wondering as April 15th is around the corner and it was on my mind.
“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.” Sigmund Freud

Offline dukkillr

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2010, 07:56:49 AM »
Do you want someone to take the time to give a thoughful answer to your questions or are you just looking for some ideological posturing?  You'll get the latter regardless...

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2010, 08:29:39 AM »
Here is a thoughtful answer; I think charity begins at home, "WE" are in dire straights right now. We have no money to give foreign aid,we need domestic aid.


None is paid back, in kind, We mostly get paid back in more hate, just like when you loan a relative some mortgage money and he cant pay you back, he ends up hating you because of it.




Now I guess you can call that ideological if ya wanna, killr. Are you discouraging posts here?   ::)
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 08:44:24 AM »
You know what in many cases it looks like FA is a bribe
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline dukkillr

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 08:58:14 AM »
Now I guess you can call that ideological if ya wanna, killr. Are you discouraging posts here?   ::)
Not at all, just asking the obvious question.  Sometimes you can sniff out the crazy-talk threads that are really only an opportunity to try and out chest pound one another.  This one could go either way, and I didn't know the poster, so I simply asked.

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2010, 09:13:36 AM »
Fair enough, and I understand your job and concern!   honestly!
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline jimster

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2010, 09:20:24 AM »
The USA is a wealthy country, but if we give millions/billions of dollars in foreign aid should the American people get to decide who gets it ....if at all?

Well, I'll say it because it hasn't been said yet.  We are not a wealthy country, in fact, our government is trillions in debt, therefore, logically speaking, we could not really send one dime of anything to anybody no matter what any of us think.  Of course I'm just using simple math with no emotions.  


If we didn't give it....would our tax burden be much less? How much of this foreign aid is ever paid back?

No, your tax burden will always be the same or more even of they stopped sending money we don't have to other countries, because they would look for another place to dump it, taxes rarely go backwards, they get used to the income and have it spent before it gets there.  

Feelings don't matter if the math says we are broke and in heavy debt.  Nothing matters except the math.  All math is the same for the government as it is in your own home or business.  

Jim

 

 

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2010, 09:25:34 AM »
Well I thought I said that, but maybe no so eloquently.
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline jimster

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2010, 09:28:35 AM »
You said it Oldshooter..."WE" are in dire straights right now. We have no money to give foreign aid,we need domestic aid.

I mis-spoke...and you said it just fine....and you hit the nail on the head before I did. 

Jim

Offline BBF

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2010, 10:36:23 AM »
I don't know if the US taxpayer was   e v e r  even asked about giving Foreign Aid to anybody, was he??
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline steve y

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2010, 10:52:57 AM »
We are a very rich nation. The richest on earth. We are the richest not in money but in the generosity of it's people. There is not enough money in the world throughout history to create the kind of utopia those in power want. I believe most of the so called foreign aid is merely to pay off or keep the reciever of that aid on our "team". If the aid given were to help people in a natural disaster situation or to ease the burden of a famine or the like there would be more than enough money pouring in to ease the burden of those people. If we observed the biblical verse of: Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. We dearly need to apply that to all of our lives. If we did it we wouldn't be in the fix we are today. There wouldn't be near the need for all welfare. People would be more self sufficient and not depend on any government entity. What welfare we did have would be tied to training and work. We would be the richest country in the world monetarily were it not for our criminal politicians. We will always be rich by our spirit of generosity helping someone up that is down rather than just throwing money at him. All he will do is expect more. Steve

Offline teamnelson

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2010, 10:58:18 AM »
I ran an implementation NGO in the Horn of Africa for a couple years. We used $ from charitable organizations to perform projects among the Somalis. Things like medical/community health, vet clinics, education, well building, etc. We were 100% independent of government funding.

Suddenly HOA is of political interest. US AID, who spends taxpayers money for foreign aid, showed up with heavy pockets. I was offered $3 million with no reporting requirements. All I had to do was spend on education ... as much overhead as I cared to pad it with, no problem. Bribing education officials, no problem. The desired endstate was to go back to their leadership and say, we spent $3 million on education in Djibouti, whether a single Djiboutian child received better education or not. I knew that in other rooms they were discussing the expansion of our military presence in the area with local leadership, and education was one of many "bribes" offered for permission to expand. I said no.

I've seen it in Iraq too. "Foreign Aid" is a euphemism for economic manipulation. Its not spent based on need, its spent based on political agenda, and is part of soft power projection. Its the most popular weapon used in the war on terror today. And we the people have no say in how it is spent.

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Offline steve y

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2010, 12:43:11 PM »
Our beauracrats can only quantify proof of action by the amount of money spent on a given situation. If we dealt honestly with the situation stories like TeamNelsons previous post would be the norm rather than the exception. It's too bad that news of this type is never diseminated to the public. These are the kind of examples that show how generous we really are and how private funding of aid of any type can and does make more of an impact than any amount government can fund. Thank you TN for your service to people in need and your service to this country. Steve

Offline Foxxtrot

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2010, 04:58:40 PM »
Now I guess you can call that ideological if ya wanna, killr. Are you discouraging posts here?   ::)
Not at all, just asking the obvious question.  Sometimes you can sniff out the crazy-talk threads that are really only an opportunity to try and out chest pound one another.  This one could go either way, and I didn't know the poster, so I simply asked.

Just looking for some factual reasoning in a answer.
“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.” Sigmund Freud

Offline Squib

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2010, 05:18:50 PM »
what's the other term teamnelson, "force multiplier" (in reference to soft projection- you're still fresh on the powerpoint and red booklet info  :o  ).  also that whole "no better friend, no worse enemy" thing too- our troops and politicians throw out money like used kleenexs but also have ospreys and apaches and platoons of men ready to go take stuff the hard way if necessary.  good cop bad cop on a massive level.  it's all about corruption, intimidation, and blitzkrieg if necessary.


what are those red booklets called again, I don't remember.  they have some scary stuff in them.  so do the old LINE system manuals.  marines are NOT peacekeepers.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2010, 05:49:29 PM »
squib, you bottom lined it: marines are not peacekeepers, and should not be. I went through the whole line manual when I was enlisted; still working on green in mcmap now. Everything used to end with "boot to the head" now it ends with "tighten zip ties on wrists and ankles." Myself and many mustangs (prior enlisted officers) are pretty upset at the retooling of the Army & Marine Corps to be boots on the ground for the state department. The "No Greater Friend, No Worse Enemy" indicates the duality of the new mission; on the one hand, if you don't fight with us, we'll rain beanie babies on you, rebuild your schools, and pump millions (in cash) into your local economy through public works projects that are akin to hiring the mafia to build a bridge - that's your greatest friend, our money. However, if you plant ieds, attack our convoys or patrols, we'll ... rain beanie babies down on you, rebuild your schools, pump millions (in cash) into your local economy ... snag a few of your young men, run GPR tests on them, put 'em in zip ties and black out glasses, drop 'em off at cropper. You'll see 'em again next year during catch and release - that's your worst enemy. Did you catch the difference? Neither did I. Every now and again we get to go kinetic, but usually in the defense. Offensive operations are limited, even in Afghanistan. Our arrangement with NATO for example is to leave most of the poppy field alone so that the farmers have a source of income; Afghanistan is one of the primary sources of morphine, and other legal opiates. Whether its all going legal or not is debatable, but we're not allowed to burn down too much, because we don't want to upset the local economy.

Where is foreign aid in all this? Well, again, its not need based. We pick and choose who we give contracts to based on willingness to participate with the government we support. Back in HOA, I watched tanker ships full of subsidized flour pumped into tanker trucks at the port in Djibouti - got to go on one once as the crew were all from Texas and they wanted to talk to another American for a change. Those trucks drove right on past somali refugee camps full of starving kids with distended bellies and reddish hair, djiboutian villages filled with little kids near starvation, on across the border into Ethiopia, which is no more in famine than anyone else in the area. But Ethiopia is our ally; its a Christian (ish) nation with a strategic border along the Ogaden where Al Qaeda in Somalia train terrorists.

However, Samaritan's Purse, Doctors without Borders, Campus Crusade, Compassion International, the IMB, etc. are all non-profit charities who primarily receive their funds from faith groups, churches, etc. And they don't care about politics, they go where the need is. If you want to AID FOREIGNERS then give to groups like those. If you want to fund soft power projection for political gain with no accountability, go to whitehouse.gov; you'll find Haiti Earthquake relief under FOREIGN POLICY ... that says something.
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Offline Squib

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2010, 06:22:24 PM »
the pictures in the line manual crack me up... removal of enemy personel... knifing people in the balls, neck, then between the collar bone and neck into the heart while holding their mouth and laying on them to muffle the screams... THAT'S PEACEKEEPING!  I never did or saw that but I did plenty of the zip-tie stuff.  I yanked up guys younger than me (19 at the time) up to about 65ish and sandbagged their heads, cussing them (did they understand?), and FEELING JUSTIFIED while doing it.... and now I worry about the UN getting my freedom and guns!? I'm more to blame than most liberals (because I did more than just run my mouth) and that's why I am bagging on this subject hard: that money funds more people doing what I did or funding foreign aid/bribes. 

Offline Spanky

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2010, 06:32:24 PM »
marines are NOT peacekeepers.

Damn skippy we ain't.
We want to raise some hell and go back home.
Babysitting is for the Air Force. :D



Spanky

Offline Squib

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2010, 06:40:25 PM »
air force: sissies yes, but efficient bombing is efficient killing and efficient war-fighting

marine corps: macho studs that strike fear into the opposition with their swole muscles and mouths' full of chewing tobacco- and are not really that efficient at destroying but killing specific persons or "detaining" them.  while being a true warrior is great and all- it's not virtuous if the warriors aren't killing the right people.  that's my hang-up. 

army, navy, etcetera... somebody has to run the bases  ::)

Offline Spanky

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2010, 07:00:30 PM »
Wasn't it Chesty Puller that first said "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" ;D ;)
Goodnight Chesty Puller wherever you are. ;D


Spanky

Offline dukkillr

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2010, 10:59:15 AM »
Now I guess you can call that ideological if ya wanna, killr. Are you discouraging posts here?   ::)
Not at all, just asking the obvious question.  Sometimes you can sniff out the crazy-talk threads that are really only an opportunity to try and out chest pound one another.  This one could go either way, and I didn't know the poster, so I simply asked.

Just looking for some factual reasoning in a answer.
.

DK...so what difference does it make what direction the thread goes.....? You're a mod for forum rules, not a censor.


TNel,,,I suspect your foreign aid experience to be quite normal nowadays. Once the USA was respected aside from a few 'ugly American' types. Foreign aid is actually a big wash and spin cycle....alot comes back to various personages. How one of the world's foremost debtor nations can offer foreign aid to various co-states is beyond me when our own people do not have sustaniable HC, are being foreclosed, hungry, and jobless....and now entering a hopeless phase.


..TM7
Not trying to censor... I was thinking about answering but I wanted to know what the poster was looking for before I took the time to type out a response.  Paranoid or something?

Offline teamnelson

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2010, 04:54:44 PM »
TM7 paranoid? Is water wet?  ;D ;D

Of course, if I read what TM7 reads all day, I'd be wired pretty tight too.  ;D
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2010, 01:46:27 AM »
BOOOOIIIIIINNNGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   ;D   8)
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline teamnelson

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Re: quick question on Foreign aid
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2010, 07:39:49 AM »
TM7, you're an ok guy! Think I'll take your advice and do something silly today, leave the wool pulling for tomorrow.  ;D
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