Author Topic: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm  (Read 2337 times)

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sagegrouse715

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Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« on: March 01, 2010, 06:43:55 AM »
Warren Buffett says the health care costs are limiting growth in our economy that is only fitfully recoverying from the financial crisis.  He says health care costs are eating up 17% of our gross domestic product while many other countries spend only 9% and yet have more doctors, nurses, and hospital beds per capita.  Mr. Buffett says, "It is like a hidden tapeworm eating at our economic body". 

Mr. Buffett  says if it is a choice between Plan A, which we currently have, or Plan B, the Senate plan, he would choose Plan B.  However, he would rather see a Plan C which really gets at cost.
Mr. Buffet goes on to say health care costs are holding back our recovery from an "economic Pearl Harbor".
 He also gives President Obama high marks for helping the country rebound.

Offline Foxxtrot

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2010, 06:50:25 AM »
He may be a great investor. He is not a great thinker. He is a populist and control freak. This is the same guy that told all of his grandkids to take a hike when they need money...even for college.

Healthcare needs fixing for sure.  If Congress wants to regulate Tort Reform, deregulate health policy across state lines, and pressure healthy living standards fine, but don't let big .gov take over your personal sovereignty.

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sagegrouse715

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2010, 08:10:08 AM »
How does one define a "great thinker"?  Socrates was a great thinker. Great thinkers are not very common. No rational thinker would say Warren Buffett is stupid.  He does like to have share holder control of companies he owns, but he isn't a control freak of people.  In fact, he hires smart people and turns them loose to run companies.

Buffett is a great thinker when it comes to numbers and financial matters.  His thoughts merit contemplation even if he is of a different political persuasion.

My mom has been on Medicare for 21 years.  She still has her sovereignty.

Offline briarpatch

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2010, 09:21:39 AM »
warren buffet would realize billions from this government take over of health care.
he dont give a rats azz about anyone or anything only his own greed.
If you look into the true facts, you will find he is a liar.
let him crawl back under his rock.

sagegrouse715

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2010, 09:54:15 AM »
Briar,
You throw out he is a liar with nothing stated to back it up.  Please give a supporting fact to this accusation. 

He has made billions off many investments.  Many of his companies are insurance companies.  Please inform me how he will profit from health care reform.

Offline scootrd

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2010, 10:11:45 AM »
How does one define a "great thinker"?  Socrates was a great thinker. Great thinkers are not very common. No rational thinker would say Warren Buffett is stupid.  He does like to have share holder control of companies he owns, but he isn't a control freak of people.  In fact, he hires smart people and turns them loose to run companies.

Buffett is a great thinker when it comes to numbers and financial matters.  His thoughts merit contemplation even if he is of a different political persuasion.

My mom has been on Medicare for 21 years.  She still has her sovereignty.

+ 1

Warren Buffet is the same person who has vested interest in credit card companies yet tells all young kids to stay away from them. I don't think he has any selfish interests here.  Personnally there is nothing wrong with proposing a plan C.
I for one would like to see states leverage their resources and offer Co-ops . Opt in if you want , Opt out if your happy with the insurance you have now. Additionally the wonderful Cobra insurance that is sooo Darn expensive no one can afford was passed under a republican watch through Reconcilliation.   Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act

So let's stop casting stones , these darn politicians all agree on one thing. Staus quo is unsustainable. so set all this junk aside and work together to get it right.  Personally I am tired of obstructionists I don't care if their Dems , progs or Repubs.
If a politician doesn't want to be past of the solution step aside and let others that do take a swing at it.
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Offline 351 power

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2010, 10:21:10 AM »
canadian health care workers leave home to work in the states all the time. they can earn 2 or 3 times the money there for the same job. there must be some truth to the high costs
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Offline DDZ

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2010, 10:32:00 AM »
Briar,
You throw out he is a liar with nothing stated to back it up.  Please give a supporting fact to this accusation. 

How about "He also gives President Obama high marks for helping the country rebound."   So by this remark he really thinks Obama has done the right thing by putting the country in trillions of dollars more debt, or he is a liar. If he does think that Obama has done the right things to help the economy, I would have to question his knowledge in economics.  
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2010, 10:46:10 AM »
Buffet has a monetary stake in Obongos health care bill. Its funny how stupid his supporters are.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2010, 10:55:38 AM »
With a guy like buffet, he has enough money, he'll play both sides against the middle. He'll make money no matter what. gypsyman
We keep trying peace, it usually doesn't work!!Remember(12/7/41)(9/11/01) gypsyman

Offline coldmold

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 12:48:56 PM »
MAKE NO MISTAKE THE INSURANCE CO.S WILL PROFIT GREATLY UNDER OBONGOS PLAN. wHY DO YOU THINKS THE FRIGGIN AARP IS FOR IT. tHEY WILL MAKE MILLIONS SELLING SUPPLIMAT PLANS WHEN THEY CUT MEDICARE.

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2010, 01:12:56 PM »
MAKE NO MISTAKE THE INSURANCE CO.S WILL PROFIT GREATLY UNDER OBONGOS PLAN. wHY DO YOU THINKS THE FRIGGIN AARP IS FOR IT. tHEY WILL MAKE MILLIONS SELLING SUPPLIMAT PLANS WHEN THEY CUT MEDICARE.

And there not now ??

It makes no difference passed or not passed,
revamped or not revamped

call me a cynic but the little guy always loses in the end.
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Offline dukkillr

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2010, 01:37:28 PM »
This is the same guy that told all of his grandkids to take a hike when they need money...even for college.
This is unequivocally wrong.  He has told his kids and grandkids that he does not believe in generational wealth and they should not expect to become rich just because of what he has.  But HE HAS paid for their college (or art school or whatever secondary school they want).  And he has already planned his estate to give away the majority of his fortune to charity when he dies.  If he's greedy that seems like a strange way to show it.  Maybe you're just desperate for something to slander him with so you can avoid the thesis?

To his larger point, he's absolutely right.  Heathcare as it exists today is a mess.  If you cant see that you need come out of your talk radio fueled ideologue land.

Offline scootrd

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2010, 02:58:49 PM »
This is the same guy that told all of his grandkids to take a hike when they need money...even for college.
This is unequivocally wrong.  He has told his kids and grandkids that he does not believe in generational wealth and they should not expect to become rich just because of what he has.  But HE HAS paid for their college (or art school or whatever secondary school they want).  And he has already planned his estate to give away the majority of his fortune to charity when he dies.  If he's greedy that seems like a strange way to show it.  Maybe you're just desperate for something to slander him with so you can avoid the thesis?

To his larger point, he's absolutely right.  Heathcare as it exists today is a mess.  If you cant see that you need come out of your talk radio fueled ideologue land.

Amen
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2010, 03:10:35 PM »
This is the same guy that told all of his grandkids to take a hike when they need money...even for college.
This is unequivocally wrong.  He has told his kids and grandkids that he does not believe in generational wealth and they should not expect to become rich just because of what he has.  But HE HAS paid for their college (or art school or whatever secondary school they want).  And he has already planned his estate to give away the majority of his fortune to charity when he dies.  If he's greedy that seems like a strange way to show it.  Maybe you're just desperate for something to slander him with so you can avoid the thesis?

To his larger point, he's absolutely right.  Heathcare as it exists today is a mess.  If you cant see that you need come out of your talk radio fueled ideologue land.


We must remember to take this in context, as we all know tort defence is the largest cost in healthcare.( Now here will come the liesand deception from the ones who make money off of this.) There is no tort reform in this health care bill and here we have a lawyer defending it. HMMMMM and people wonder why lawyers are refered to as parasites!
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2010, 03:17:33 PM »
I think he(buffet) is a wise investor and has made billions. I also think that the medical system we have is not the best thing for working people, but working people have been falling for the insurance scams for quite sometime now. Save your money and pay cash for day to day medical attention and buy a catastrophic policy to save your savings should you have a catastrophic illness or injury. Buffet also supported obama and has had second thoughts about that since he was elected what scare me is that he may still be in his corner politically. There were a lot of people that have had second thoughts about obama with good reason.

 I think the medical insurance and medical care industry need over hauling but not government takeover, has anyone seen anything the government has touched that they have made better? I believe that it isn't about medical care at all but power and control. Progressives think we cannot take care of ourselves and that we need someone to look out for us for everything from medical care to food! At the risk of being called an ideologue I'd say its better to listen to talk radio than Buffet unless you are an investor!
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Offline dukkillr

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2010, 04:17:31 PM »
This is the same guy that told all of his grandkids to take a hike when they need money...even for college.
This is unequivocally wrong.  He has told his kids and grandkids that he does not believe in generational wealth and they should not expect to become rich just because of what he has.  But HE HAS paid for their college (or art school or whatever secondary school they want).  And he has already planned his estate to give away the majority of his fortune to charity when he dies.  If he's greedy that seems like a strange way to show it.  Maybe you're just desperate for something to slander him with so you can avoid the thesis?

To his larger point, he's absolutely right.  Heathcare as it exists today is a mess.  If you cant see that you need come out of your talk radio fueled ideologue land.


We must remember to take this in context, as we all know tort defence is the largest cost in healthcare.( Now here will come the liesand deception from the ones who make money off of this.) There is no tort reform in this health care bill and here we have a lawyer defending it. HMMMMM and people wonder why lawyers are refered to as parasites!
Ive posted two important points on this in other threads:
1) I absolutely support tort reform even going more indepth and suggesting near immunity for clinic doctors
2) I have not, and will not ever make a single dollar suing doctors, hospitals, or healthcare providers or companies.

Once again, I get that you'd like to attack people rather than address ideas, but try your best to be knowledgable.  I've said both of the above here more than once.

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2010, 04:36:24 PM »
That is commendable dukkiller, I wish there were more in your trade that felt that way. I have always had mixed emotions about tort reform, I see the need to address unscrupulous and incompetent doctors, but know that a lot of medical litigation is the spawn of greed!  The medical system would be much better if some sort of tort reform could be adopted nationally. There has been some in Texas lately and it seems to have helped. On the other hand most law firms in this area support Democrat candidates mostly to stop tort reform.
   
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Offline briarpatch

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2010, 05:11:29 PM »
The problem we have with HC in this country is the government.
If they would stay out of it we would not have this problem.
Let this sink in and think.

We have medicade, medicare, (millions of working age men and women that give nothing but take, on welfare), (20 million illeagles that the government refuses to stop the flow of and I hope you are not so blind you dont see the hospitals and health centers doing a brisk business supporting them on your dollar), (those taxed until they themselves are broke through these plans like HC to feed the elite, to the point they become welfare). All of this and much more, government sponsored.
You want to turn your future and the future of your posterity over to government run HC that has never worked any where it is tried. I have head the same stories of how good it is until I have talked to few from the Uk and Canada. I ask all I see.
By far most like what we have.
Many ways to fix the HC problem has been presented but have been rejected, it does not allow the minions to get their hands in the till.
All this bill is, is a sham. Nothing more and buffet is a  minion.


Offline INresponse

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2010, 05:25:44 PM »
canadian health care workers leave home to work in the states all the time. they can earn 2 or 3 times the money there for the same job. there must be some truth to the high costs

AND, they get health insurance in the United States so they can come here for healthcare instead of waiting in line in Canada.
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2010, 05:42:27 PM »
We must remember to take this in context, as we all know tort defence is the largest cost in healthcare.

I have no clue how people can make brash statements such as these with absolutely no credible research to back the statement up.  They say it, nobody calls them on it,  or here it by the drive by media so it must be true..

Heres a few studies.

A study by Bloomberg found that the proportion of medical malpractice verdicts among the top jury awards in the U.S. declined over the last 20 years. “Of the top 25 awards so far this year, only one was a malpractice case.” Moreover, at least 30 states now cap damages in medical lawsuits.

A recent analysis by Atul Gawande in the New Yorker found that while Texas tort reforms led to a cap on pain-and-suffering awards at two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, which led to a dramatic decline in lawsuits, McAllen, Texas is one of the most expensive health care markets in the country. In 2006, “Medicare spent fifteen thousand dollars per person enrolled in McAllen, he finds, which is almost twice the national average — although the average town resident earns only $12,000 a year. “Medicare spends three thousand dollars more per person here than the average person earns.”

Tom Baker, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School and author of “The Medical Malpractice Myth.” “If you were to eliminate medical malpractice liability, even forgetting the negative consequences that would have for safety, accountability, and responsiveness, maybe we’d be talking about 1.5 percent of health care costs. So we’re not talking about real money. It’s small relative to the out-of-control cost of health care.”

economists agree that “defensive medicine” is also not the main driver of costs, and malpractice liability reform is not a panacea. Congressional Budget Office has stated medical malpractice makes up only 2 percent of U.S. health spending. Even “significant reductions” would do little to curb health-care expenses. “If you were to list the top five or ten things that you could do to bring down health care costs that would not be on the list,” said Michelle Mello, a professor of Law and Public Health at Harvard, so-called “defensive medicine” is around only $20 billion a year.

Currently, the vast majority of states have enacted some form of "tort reform" legislation that limits the amount of damages and/or attorney's fees that can be recovered in medical malpractice actions. However, physicians in these states have not experienced the anticipated decrease in insurance premiums.

Instead, a study conducted by the National Association of Insurance Commissioners has shown a 24% increase in profits among malpractice insurers in states with tort reform legislation. In 2008, insurers in tort reform states raked in 3.5 times more in premiums than what they paid out in claims. Significantly, in the states that do not have laws capping damages and/or attorney's fees in medical malpractice cases, the insurers took in only two times as much in premiums as they paid out in claims.

A recent report issued by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that the incidence of defensive medicine has been greatly overstated. According to the report, no evidence of defensive medicine was found in private managed care systems. However, the practice was found to occur in the Medicare system. The difference largely has been attributed to private managed care systems refusing to pay for tests that do not have proven effectiveness, limiting the financial incentive among physicians and hospitals to order tests that will not be reimbursed.

According to the CBO, if the federal government were to enact sweeping tort reform laws, the total savings in terms of insurance premiums, defensive medicine practices and litigation would be around $11 billion for a total of a .5% savings. While figures vary, it is estimated that the total cost of medical malpractice liability on the national health care system accounts for only 2% of total health care expenditures.
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sagegrouse715

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2010, 05:44:47 PM »
DDZ:  Your questioning Buffett's economic knowledge is like questioning the Pope's knowledge of the Bible.

sagegrouse715

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2010, 05:47:33 PM »
Billy:  And just what is this financial stake that you say Buffett has in the health care bill? 

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2010, 05:50:45 PM »
Putting it into context I agree with DDZ

"If he does think that Obama has done the right things to help the economy, I would have to question his knowledge in economics."

 I would question the Pope's knowledge of the bible if he stated that the Devil was a nice guy and was doing his best to help mankind!
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sagegrouse715

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2010, 05:54:58 PM »
Billy:  "We all know is tort defense is the largest cost in healthcare".  

Now I may be a stupid supporter of Warren Buffett, but my wife is a hospital CFO, and she says you are most definitely wrong on that one.

sagegrouse715

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2010, 06:00:27 PM »
Oldshooter:

You have a right to your opinion just like Warren does.  However,  unless we have someone here who won the Nobel Prize in economics, I have a very strong feeling that Warren has forgotten more about economics than the sum total of posters on this site know. 

Offline scootrd

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2010, 06:05:24 PM »
Billy:  "We all know is tort defense is the largest cost in healthcare".  

Tort defense is one of the lowest costs associated with healthcare.

In roughly descending order, contributors to rising HC costs:

Hospitals and doctors. Doctors and hospitals account for by far the largest share, 52 percent in 2006.

Drug companies. Prescription drugs account for only one-tenth of total health-care expenditures. But drug spending has increased as a share of overall expenditures over the past decade.

Insurance companies. Health-insurance premiums have grown faster than inflation or workers' earnings over the past decade, in parallel with the equally rapid rise in overall health costs. Industry spending on administrative and marketing costs, plus profits, consumes 12 percent of private-insurance premiums.

Politicians and government regulators. Although the government directly controls only 46 percent of national health spending, many of its policies affect the bottom line of the health-care industry, for example, by setting Medicare reimbursement rates for doctors on which private insurers base their rates, or by regulating health insurance.

Lawyers. Malpractice-insurance premiums and liability awards account for less than 2 percent of overall health-care spending, according to a 2004 study by the Congressional Budget Office. Defensive medicine, the practice of ordering extra tests or procedures to protect against lawsuits, might add another few percentage points.

Health-care consumers. "Modifiable" risk factors, such as eating too much, exercising too little, or smoking, are to blame for an estimated 25 percent of U.S. health-care costs

"Patients have little control over the amount that hospitals and doctors charge. Our exorbitant medical prices are a result of the fragmented structure of our health-care system, not the choices of patients."
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2010, 06:20:42 PM »
I think you equate economics with good investment savy, They may not be the same, and if "Warren" thinks obama is doing the right thing for this country's economic problems I say he is  wrong. Have you seen this country's national debt since the obama administration has taken office and his "economic" cures have gone into effect. I'm no Rhode Scholar, but It doesn't seem prudent to spend your way out of debt!

Someone said "Spending to get yourself out of debt is like trying to lift yourself up by standing in a bucket and pulling up on the handle"

Run that by "warren" when you see him"
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2010, 06:41:04 PM »
Have you seen this country's national debt since the obama administration has taken office and his "economic" cures have gone into effect.

Your Joking right? the last eight years of unbridled spending just magically never occurred.

By tenure, the largest increases in gross debt occurred under
George W. Bush ,  4.97 Trillion dollars

When Bush took office, the national debt was $5.73 trillion.
When he left, it was $10.7 trillion. That's a difference of $4.97 trillion

But hey Cheney's cronies at Haliburton and their subsidiaries are happy.
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Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Out of control health care costs are a tapeworm
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2010, 06:56:23 PM »
So you are kidding me I assume. When Bush was in office it took him 8 years to accumulate 4.9 trillion in debt. your man obama has accomplished in one year what it took bush 2.5 years to do. At this rate he will accumulate over 4 trillion in debt by his 3rd year! I so hope he gets no more than 4!

And we are talking about what obama has done to fix the economy since buffet thinks he is doing the right stuff. You bush haters are gonna have to get help! He aint here anymore he cant be affecting the economy anymore. obama owns the wars now! he owns the economy now, he owns the debt now! Put your hatred away and look at whats happening now. I dont hate obama but I hate what he is doing to the economy and what he is trying to do to health care.

BTW
Quote
On Inauguration Day, the Debt stood at $10.626 trillion. The latest posting from the Treasury Department shows that as of July 31st, the debt hit $11.669 trillion.
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."