Author Topic: Barrel fitting, different problem  (Read 631 times)

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Offline moorepower

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Barrel fitting, different problem
« on: February 27, 2010, 09:24:46 AM »
I am preparing to send a HM2 barrel out to Larry, to become a 17 Fireball and in the process of fitting, I ran into something I have not read about before. To start the barrel would latch on the case hardened receiver, but there was about a .003-.004 gap on the top. I started by stoning the shelf, just to deburr and break the edge. It gave me a little bebber lockup, but did nothing for the gap. Then I stoned the barrel face, just to deburr and break any edges from the beating the end of the barrel endured in production. I go the gap down to about.0015-.002 but the blue I wiped on for checking for rub marks pointed out that it was not setting flat on the breach face. To my surprise there was a large burr left over from when they ground the top of the receiver down where it meets the breach face, keeping the barrel from setting down square. After stoning the burr away, I now have a gap so small, light is almost undetectable between the barrel and the breach, with a engagement on the shelf of .093, and a fiddle string tight latch. After all this, I think the first thing I would do to a barrel before install, would be to deburr all surfaces that are engaged in the latch and fitment process. Thanks Larry for your advice working on the fitment. Larry, I can't wait to see how this will shoot in 17 Fireball, when I get it back, as tight as it is. Now for the trigger job and hammer mass reduction.

Offline blind ear

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Re: Barrel fitting, different problem
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2010, 02:31:13 PM »
moorepower, I had a bead on one side of an underlug weld that caused a similar problem. A good inspection with a little insight as to what to look for sure might save a lot of trouble. eddie
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Offline Spanky

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Re: Barrel fitting, different problem
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2010, 02:50:53 PM »
Stoning or filing the latch shelf isn't going to do a thing to close the gap. ???



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Offline moorepower

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Re: Barrel fitting, different problem
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2010, 08:11:48 AM »
Spanky, possibly you should re read my post. All I said I did, is to deburr and break the edge to get a better lockup. I did NOT remove any material, other than what should not have been there in the first place. When I initially checked the engagement, it was about the .015 wide, due to the fact their was a sharp edge on the shelf that it was riding on. If it had fit with this kind of edge, along with the burrs, I think I would have been chasing fliers, for as long as I owned the gun. Had I worked on the underlug to get it to close, It would have closed, just like my factory fitted barrels on my other frame, but again, the breach face is riding on a bunch of divets  and ridges left from the factory saw cut and the way the barrel was banged around before the install. FYI, I bought the gun that the barrel was on, so I know the history of the barrel, "it is a shooter" in a low intensity HM2. My entire point of posting what I found is to possibly give folks another avenue, than just going straight to where you need to go,"the underlug" , to remove metal and looking at the breach face and the barrel face first. Perhaps if the end of the barrel was lathe turned first, instead of the saw cut, the precision barrel fit could be had without as much hand fitting. I think that everyone would be wise to first stone down the barrel face, and the breach face before fitting, and I believe, there would be a heck of alot less need to even touch the pivot, and great deal more accuracy attained by the quality of fitment. The more surface area actually touching and the more even the breach to barrel fit the more potential accuracy of the gun. I am not talking about mass material removal, but by just breaking edges, taking off high spots, their is probably 70% more surface area mating on the two surfaces, due to the fact that before, it is just riding the high spots. The more you shoot the gun without a stoned finish the faster the potential for the barrel face wearing and having to go back and shim it to take out the play, that was created when fitting, as every time you pull the trigger, a few more of the peaks and valleys left in, from the manufacturing process, will peen down, making for a looser fit. The fewer vibrations set off every time you pull the trigger, the more potential accuracy of the gun. All I used was a couple of stones from Brownells, a tube of blue made by Permatex for checking  backlash, and valve jobs ect. Had I started out with the stoning,"just to deburr and break edges" , I would not have spent 3 minutes to fit the barrel, which fits many times tighter than a factory fit barrel. Again , Thanks to Larry for the insight .

Offline Spanky

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Re: Barrel fitting, different problem
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2010, 08:54:41 AM »
They are a little rough around the edges. :D



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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Barrel fitting, different problem
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2010, 09:02:57 AM »
If you read the barrel fitting instruction, you'll see the first thing to check and work on is the barrel face. I just checked a couple dozen SB2 frames with a small machinist's square, none had an uneven breech face,  the actual barrel seating face was perfectly flat. One(HT prefix) had a very rough finish on the edge and all the way around that appeared to have been touched up with a file at the factory, but it was well outside where the barrel face seats against the standing breech. I'll add the tip on checking the standing breech face to the fitting info just in case someone else has a problem, thanks.

Quote
Before removing any metal from the pivot, use a flat mill file to make sure the barrel face at the chamber is flat, you'll see metal being removed on the high spots as bright while the low spots remain blue. A little degreasing and touch up blue will restore the finish after you make sure its nice and flat. DO NOT file the breech face flat if a factory cartridge is perfectly flush with the barrel face, doing so will cause negative headspace and the chamber will need to be reamed a bit by a gunsmith. But if the face of the cartridge is slightly recessed below the barrel face, you should file the barrel face to true it up and reduce the built in headspace caused by the uneven barrel face

I've fitted about 30 barrels, some were fitted just by cleaning up the breech face with no changes to the pivot. I've also refitted a factory 270 Win fluted bull barrel that was poorly fitted with a serious gap at the top of the barrel by filing the barrel face flat, unfortunately it also created a negative headspace which is a possibility with any barrel when removing metal from the barrel face. The solution in this case was to run a reamer in to make the chamber slightly deeper, since I intended do it by hand with a rented reamer since I'd only have to remove a minimum of metal, I rented an Ackley reamer instead and made a true 270 AI out of it that shoots factory 270 ammo just fine.....then I found out after the second range trip and poor accuracy that the bore was oversize, but that's another story! :-\


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