Ron Paul wins this year’s straw poll at the Conservative Political Action Confer

[Swampman]

If he can't win, why does it matter?  Only a winner will have any say so in how our country is run.

[nw_hunter]

 
    Dukiller reiterated a point I have continually brought up and nobody takes to task..THERE IS NO PERFECT MAN OR PERFECT CANDIDATE ! Surely everyone realizes that..thus if you vote at all, you are compromising..accepting the lesser of two.

   let's look forward a couple years.. to Nov 2012. After a hard fought primary there is left only Mitt Romney. Ron Paul having "fought the good fight" has finally succumbed to the voting process..
  Now it is Mitt Romney vs Barack Hussein Obama..will numbers of conservatives refuse to vote and perhaps put Obama back into the oval office, where if nothing else, he can appoint SCOTUS members ..and KILL OUR CONSTITUTION ?
  Or, if Ron Paul were to run as a third party (which I doubt, since he respects the Constitution also), would they vote for him even if he was only likely to draw say 9%..just enough to put Obama back in ?

   All that being said, I like Ron Paul and will be glad to vote for him if he stands a chance then. I just cannot accept the futility of voting for somebody who CAN'T win..may as well stay home.

The honest, freedom loving candidates like Paul will never be elected if this attitude persists.
The RNC, the press, and entertainment networks like Fox, will go the extra mile to ridicule, and down play a candidate like him.

Most on this forum say they will not vote for some one that's not electable   (NOT TRUE) They voted for a scum bag , Liberal like John McCain, and he was not electable. Guess what happened? We got Obammy!

"Actually" For the powers that be, They win regardless of the outcome of that election.

[skarke]

Teamnelson,

I believe that Beck did the math, but here is an interesting link that says pretty much the same thing, from of all sources, CBS.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/15/politics/otherpeoplesmoney/main4945874.shtml

These are truly dangerous times.

Bear with me, and I'll find the citing that you are requesting.

Thanks for the interest.

[ironglow]

NW hunter;
    I believe you are mistaken with your charges against FOX..I do not recall a time when they specifically ridiculed Ron Paul. I am not speaking about commentators, but about their news or network policy.
  Commentators (e.g. Hannity, Beck, Ingraham or Coulter) of course, are all about opinion..that is their "schtick". Still, those commentators I submit, were tougher on Obama, Holder, Pelosi and Reid than they ever were on the conservatives and Paul got no more hassle than any of those.

  If you have an example where he was ridiculed above and beyond others, please demonstrate.

  If for the next presidential election, there is a very good, conservative, Constitutional candidate..but it is not Paul..running against Obama, will you vote for the better candidate..or the lesser of the two evils ?   ..keeping in mind, applies to all. "behold I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me" (Ps 51:5)

[skarke]

Here's another link that demonstrates that 70% of US families will receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes under Obama's budget.

http://www.rightsidenews.com/politics-and-economics/70-percent-of-families-will-receive-more-benefits-than-they-pay-in-taxes-under-obama-plan.html

Suffice it to say that Americans are discovering, in the absence of moral restraint, that they can vote for themselves money from the public coffers.  It is precisely this behavior that endangers our Republic.

When we as Citizens begin saying, "I do not absolutely need it, so therefore I won't take it", we'll be on the road to recovery.

A wise pastor once said that in order to create a better World, a good man creates a good family, which in turn creates a good neighborhood, then town, county, State, Country, and only then a better World.

It all begins with us.

[teamnelson]

Skarke, thanks and good words.

I would only add that until we do what is right instead of what is easy, we will continue our rapid descent.

[Oldshooter]

never be elected if this attitude persists

I'd sure like to know what attitude "this" is?


 That some of us are not willing to vote for someone who has not garnered a significant number of supporters that they are relevant in a national election? Wanting something to happen wont make it so. Heck I like a lot of what Ron Paul stands for, not everything! But i would support him just like Romney people did Romney during the primaries, but what do you do when your candidate fails in the primaries, as did Romny and Paul. do you pout and pick up your ball and go home, No you support whos left, you dont go to the obama side. I didn't like macain't, did like Palin, I saw a clear choice and it wasn't obama.

I sure would be happy if some of you would come out and say who WE ALL should have voted for, that would  be interesting since no one but mcain't had a prayer after the primaries, I am a little perplexed about this arm chair quarterbacking about shudda cudda wudda! No one was gonna get elected but obama or macain't. who did you vote for?

Now for the next election, who in heavens name will you all support then, and when he/she fails to win in the primaries, what are you gonna do then! Its OK Blame me I can take the heat. but I ain't gonna vote for a 10%'r that has no chance.

And by the way If I only supported winners, I would have voted for obama, and that had no chance of happening!

Like dukkiller said earlier, " Do you think I'm wrong or are you mad that I'm right?" or just call me fat cause I wont agree with you or scared, cause i wont vote like you do! I'll know who is Intelligent then.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." - Ben Franklin. ...

Stick a fork in us we are done, if skarke's figures are correct.

[gwhilikerz]

Actually Oldshooter I couldn't care less what you think or how you vote. I'll continue to vote for the candidate that I think is the best, it doesn't matter if he has no chance to win. It's called PRINCIPLE.

[Oldshooter]

Then way are you whining so damned much !

You have principles yea right, you started this bru haha with your whining about why dont we admit we aren't gonna vote for a candidate that cant win. you may have principles but you dont really get it do ya?

[Dee]

gwhilikerz, do you hear something way back in the back ground makin an odd, annoying noise? It's gettin more and more faint. Welp! It's gone! I can't hear it anymore.

[nw_hunter]

never be elected if this attitude persists

I'd sure like to know what attitude "this" is?


 That some of us are not willing to vote for someone who has not garnered a significant number of supporters that they are relevant in a national election? Wanting something to happen wont make it so. Heck I like a lot of what Ron Paul stands for, not everything! But i would support him just like Romney people did Romney during the primaries, but what do you do when your candidate fails in the primaries, as did Romny and Paul. do you pout and pick up your ball and go home, No you support whos left, you dont go to the obama side. I didn't like macain't, did like Palin, I saw a clear choice and it wasn't obama.

I sure would be happy if some of you would come out and say who WE ALL should have voted for, that would  be interesting since no one but mcain't had a prayer after the primaries, I am a little perplexed about this arm chair quarterbacking about shudda cudda wudda! No one was gonna get elected but obama or macain't. who did you vote for?

Now for the next election, who in heavens name will you all support then, and when he/she fails to win in the primaries, what are you gonna do then! Its OK Blame me I can take the heat. but I ain't gonna vote for a 10%'r that has no chance.

And by the way If I only supported winners, I would have voted for obama, and that had no chance of happening!

Like dukkiller said earlier, " Do you think I'm wrong or are you mad that I'm right?" or just call me fat cause I wont agree with you or scared, cause i wont vote like you do! I'll know who is Intelligent then.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." - Ben Franklin. ...

Stick a fork in us we are done, if skarke's figures are correct.

Well ! Paul could have garnered enough votes in the primary, If more people had voted for a true conservative, instead of that liberal McCain. I voted for Paul in the primary's and Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution party in the general election.I could have forced myself to vote for the Huckster, or the Mormon, but my conscious wouldn't allow me to vote for McCain or Obammy.

And to answer your question........Yes, I think your wrong! I don't know if your fat or skinny, and I don't have a reason to be mad at you. I do believe you will vote for whoever Fox News tells you is best for the country, and the Democrats will follow the advice of MSNBC, CNN, or one of the other Liberal leaning networks. I do think you are programed, and believe you are doing the right thing. I'm sure you think I'm a tin foil hat wearing fool, and by voting for an independent, turned the country over to the enemy.



 

[Oldshooter]

Yep! All of you folk with "Principles" can go forth and vote for your third Party candidates and and your "whateverinhell" And obama will be happy to send you an invite to the Inaugural ball and You and DEE and geewillerkuz, can sit in the corner amongst acorn, and the unions and everyone else that got him a second term and ask yourselves how all this hope change and "principle" is working out for you!  Bythe way if principle is what you have, I dont want any part of it. I dont need Fox or anyone else to tell me who to vote for! Me and about half of the people in this country will just stand and vote to stop obama, while you choke on your feeble principle.

But when it is all said and done if Skarke is correct, and I dont think he is wrong, Ben Franklin who said a lot of things also said, "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."  WAS indeed the foreseer of our future!

[Dee]

 

[gwhilikerz]

Sometimes I need to slow down and watch my words. So I edited this post.

[Oldshooter]

And you sir should take your enema, cause you are full of it!

Thats wrong and I apologize to all those that an enema would help!

[eye shot]

IMO the GOP will back and put up for election who they want. You can bet it won't be a RP or SP. God help this country if they have a deal with McCain to run again!

[Swampman]

McCain won't run again but at least he is electable.

[gwhilikerz]

I can't agree that McCain is electable. I think he is the reson the republicans lost the last election. (I know some of you will say it is because I didn't vote for him). There just was not enough difference between him and Obama and their liberal thinking to allow people to find a reason to vote for him.

[gstewart44]

If McCain showed the same judgment in picking his campaign manager/team like he did in 08 he would not be electable.   

[skarke]

IMHO, voting is just a part of our responsibility.  If we want better candidates, then get active in politics.  Over the past few weeks, I have posted anecdotes of how I plan to impact my environment.  Here's a short list:

1.  Educate myself, then my kids about our history, particularly about why we have our current form of government.  I DO THIS DAILY in short pieces, 5 minutes
2.  Respectfully, humbly, but definitely respond to those who are mis-informing, and are mis-informed.  If we don't speak up around the water cooler, then we will get what we deserve for our inaction
3.  I am now, and will continue to canvas for those i support
4.  I believe in a rejuvinated, re-energized, and purged Repubican party, free, or nearly free of RINOs and liberals, but open to all like minded thinkers
5.  I am a social conservative, but I rank fiscal responsibility and homeland defense (including 2nd Amendment related issues) 1 and 2 on my priority list

Bottom line, speak, assemble, teach, lead, and support others who do.  It only takes a few good men and women to change the world.

[Matt]

Well lets see did Mcaint win or not.... no... so guess what... HE WAS NOT ELECTABLE.....

[Oldshooter]

By and large, "we" here have, or should have many of the same political goals in mind, due to the fact that we have many of the same things in common.

It is worrysome that unfortunately we do not all pull in the same direction. Sometimes I feel like I am blamed for the rules. I didn't write em! The rules are there and have been established over the years, They are not neccessarily good rules but they have been established, and to change them will take unprecedented efforts. We cant wish the political process to change we have to do it.

This Question has not been answered, What will you do when your candidate(s) fail to become a national contender. Its the primary process that will decide that. (one of the rules)  RP fell into that catagory last election, and dropped out.

I maintain that to not vote or vote for a 10%'r will not accomplish anything but allow obama to stay in office and destroy your childrens futures.

Skarke makes some great points, and I commend his attitude, but what do you do when your "Ron Paul" is not accepted by the country. You just have to compromise, thats all that can be done, Letting someone like obama and his ilk tear this country down and bring it to its knees is not acceptable to me, so I have and will compromise in order to stop it if I can.

Is amazing that sometimes I think I am at odds with friends here, and Its not comfortable. I think we should be planning the retake of our government rather than taking swipes at each other.
   

[nw_hunter]

By and large, "we" here have, or should have many of the same political goals in mind, due to the fact that we have many of the same things in common.

It is worrysome that unfortunately we do not all pull in the same direction. Sometimes I feel like I am blamed for the rules. I didn't write em! The rules are there and have been established over the years, They are not neccessarily good rules but they have been established, and to change them will take unprecedented efforts. We cant wish the political process to change we have to do it.

This Question has not been answered, What will you do when your candidate(s) fail to become a national contender. Its the primary process that will decide that. (one of the rules)  RP fell into that catagory last election, and dropped out.

I maintain that to not vote or vote for a 10%'r will not accomplish anything but allow obama to stay in office and destroy your childrens futures.

Skarke makes some great points, and I commend his attitude, but what do you do when your "Ron Paul" is not accepted by the country. You just have to compromise, thats all that can be done, Letting someone like obama and his ilk tear this country down and bring it to its knees is not acceptable to me, so I have and will compromise in order to stop it if I can.

Is amazing that sometimes I think I am at odds with friends here, and Its not comfortable. I think we should be planning the retake of our government rather than taking swipes at each other.
   

I think you are correct in saying most of us on this forum have the same desire to see our once great nation returned to it's glory day's as a world leader, The greatest industrialized nation,loved and respected by the rest of the world, but some of us, and I think those of us who do our homework, and not letting a bunch of talking heads on the tube do our thinking for us, realize we are only headed in one direction (down) by electing the same old bunch of criminals from either party. We understand that it makes no difference which one is in office, the results are the same.

As long as we keep voting for this pond scum, and not a patriot, with integrity, and sound values, we will continue to spiral downward.I don't see the Republican party as any better than the Liberals they oppose anymore. As a matter of fact, I see the Republican party as the new Liberal in the neighborhood.

I never saw Bush as a conservative! He increased the federal government more than any Democrat in recent memory, and the cost of these aggressive wars has been staggering.

Obammy was elected by Republican voters like my next door neighbor, who after voting Republican all his adult life, was tired of their lies about smaller government, and war like mentality, and he voted for Obama.Some Republicans just stayed at home in disgust.
Obama had no intention of ending the war, but used that lie to be elected. It worked!

If you want to vote for a compromise, then do so, but don't blame those of us that don't buy into that BS when your compromising candidate fails to be elected. "By the way"! Some of us ARE trying to retake our country, and wish you and others would join the fight!

[teamnelson]

OS, I commend your spirit, and your reasoning is sound. I only have one distinction I would make ... it does not address how to get a good candidate in office, just an electable one, and there is a difference. Backing the right idea/guy for the job long enough is the only way to get the rank and file voter to pay attention. I believe that is the spirit of the "tea party" is it not? To be willing to stand outside the party tradition and elevate the salient issues? I concur that reforming the Republican party is worthwhile, but so is the "rEVOLution."

To use an analogy to explain my view, I refuse to accept that premarital sex is a necessary evil, so I will not compromise on that issue with my kids. I will not hope for the best and hand out condoms. Do I risk failure? Sure. Are the folks that hand out condoms of a similar mindset as I? yes, to a degree. We both want whats best for the kids, and they are willing to compromise for something they feel is attainable within today's culture. However, I know that abstinence is the best answer, and those who hand out condoms agree. So I will keep beating the drum of abstinence and slowly slowly I'll influence culture.

So yeah, before anyone else says it, I'm equating McCain to a condom.

[Swampman]

I won't vote for Ron Paul.

[Dee]

The question recently was: Was McCain electable. No he wasn't. He wasn't electable the FIRST TIME HE RAN, and he was electable the SECOND TIME HE RAN.
He is what he is. He's Republican. Republican and Conservative are not the same thing.
TN made a good analogy of the situation and it is merely another way of saying, what I have been saying but, said in a different way.
I am not settling for less. I may get less, because of the voters that WILL settle for less, but I won't like it. I will only accept it as my cross to bear, given me by others.

[skarke]

I'll vote for Congressman Paul for Congress, not President, unless he emerges as the Republican nominee for President.  Keep in mind that he is my Representative, so I have the privilege and honor to have him represent me.  If he runs seeking nomination as the Republican candidate for President in the primary, I'll likely support him, but maybe not.  I'll need to see my options.

The two party system exists in the US because we do not have a parlimentary form of government.  Working within the two party structure, we have the best opportunity to be effective in implementing the majority of our common beliefs by coordinating our efforts from within our favored party.

In the post Civil War era (really, for the majority of our history post ratification of our Constitution), we have not had a successful, enduring 3rd party emerge.  The closest was the Bull Moose party of Roosevelt, which is clearly not what we want.  Even with Roosevelt like charisma, a party built around an individual, rather than a set of ideals and ideas, just won't survive.

Rest assured that I fully support an individual's right to vote for whomever, he chooses; however, history is stacked against a third party candidate being successful.  Third party candidates will remain nothing more than curiosities in American politics, afterthoughts and also-rans, a blip on the radar of US History.  Like someone else said, and I paraphrase, we didn't create the system, but we darn well better understand how to use it to our advantage.  

[Oldshooter]

TN, I agree with what you say about the tea parties and and the "condom analogy"  .  Some here think I am led by the nose by TV, I am college educated.I have operated my own business and raised 7 children that are successful and professionals. I am no fool!

But when it comes to "nut cutting" like we say here. What do you do when your man isn't gonna make it. Face it we know days before the election just about how it will go, and the independent polls do not lie, and the primaries, well, they tell the tale, period. I will not vote for a candidate that has no chance. Not that I wont  support him/ her right up until the bitter end. But the final outcome is to not let the evil one continue to take us down. Symbolic vote, or a third party vote, especially for a right leaning guy splits the conservative vote and makes obama a two term president. How is that hope and change working for ya?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

NW_hunter

Things like:

I think those of us who do our homework, and not letting a bunch of talking heads on the tube do our thinking for us

and:

 

don't blame those of us that don't buy into that BS when your compromising candidate fails to be elected.

make me crazy! Yea, I read and comprehend what I read

You underestimate me sir, I am no body's fool, and which candidate did you compromise on, cause obama is the only one that won! I might suggest that you maybe listened to the wrong talking head! Your homework leaves much to be desired. so throw no stones! If you wanna have an intelligent conversation with me , Don't cast dispersions on me or my ability to reason. In a battle of wits you may find yourself out gunned.

[ironglow]

IMHO, voting is just a part of our responsibility.  If we want better candidates, then get active in politics.  Over the past few weeks, I have posted anecdotes of how I plan to impact my environment.  Here's a short list:

1.  Educate myself, then my kids about our history, particularly about why we have our current form of government.  I DO THIS DAILY in short pieces, 5 minutes
2.  Respectfully, humbly, but definitely respond to those who are mis-informing, and are mis-informed.  If we don't speak up around the water cooler, then we will get what we deserve for our inaction
3.  I am now, and will continue to canvas for those i support
4.  I believe in a rejuvinated, re-energized, and purged Repubican party, free, or nearly free of RINOs and liberals, but open to all like minded thinkers
5.  I am a social conservative, but I rank fiscal responsibility and homeland defense (including 2nd Amendment related issues) 1 and 2 on my priority list

Bottom line, speak, assemble, teach, lead, and support others who do.  It only takes a few good men and women to change the world.

  I cannot help but to agree wityh Skarke's whole statement and am doing the same things> my only reservation is if it comes to the final election night and our very first choice is there, but decent conservative is; shall we really refuse to vote..thereby letting Obama or a carbon copy of him in the oval office ?

  Remember...PRESIDENTS appoint to SCOTUS...

  BTW:  TN..you're right on target..collect your expert's wreath ..

[nw_hunter]

I'll vote for Congressman Paul for Congress, not President, unless he emerges as the Republican nominee for President.  Keep in mind that he is my Representative, so I have the privilege and honor to have him represent me.  If he runs seeking nomination as the Republican candidate for President in the primary, I'll likely support him, but maybe not.  I'll need to see my options.

The two party system exists in the US because we do not have a parlimentary form of government.  Working within the two party structure, we have the best opportunity to be effective in implementing the majority of our common beliefs by coordinating our efforts from within our favored party.

In the post Civil War era (really, for the majority of our history post ratification of our Constitution), we have not had a successful, enduring 3rd party emerge.  The closest was the Bull Moose party of Roosevelt, which is clearly not what we want.  Even with Roosevelt like charisma, a party built around an individual, rather than a set of ideals and ideas, just won't survive.

Rest assured that I fully support an individual's right to vote for whomever, he chooses; however, history is stacked against a third party candidate being successful.  Third party candidates will remain nothing more than curiosities in American politics, afterthoughts and also-rans, a blip on the radar of US History.  Like someone else said, and I paraphrase, we didn't create the system, but we darn well better understand how to use it to our advantage.  

I agree with you, we need more people like Paul in Congress, but when we get a rare chance to vote for a man like him in the Primary's why not take advantage of the opportunity? Don't you think Paul stood a better chance of defeating the Democrat choice than a lying liberal like McCain?

I don't agree that third party candidates don't have a chance. As of 2004 the Republican base was 55 million registered voters, the Democratic base was 72 million, and the total Independent voter base was 42 million. The only thing missing is unity in the third party voters, and that appears to be changing.

The war between left and right diminishes the focus on real issues. A large number of people make all their decisions based upon their party leaders. The debate turns into left verses right, instead of what is best for the country. The mainstream media loves to turn everything into a matter of “party wars”, instead of discussing the actual issue at it’s core.

It's too late to change the minds of some like Old Shooter.......He falls into the category of Left vs Right, and does not focus on the real issues, but this new generation of voters are looking at the real issues, and the mess our generation has given them. They will , I hope look past party politics and vote for individuals like Paul with the wisdom, and honesty to turn this country around.