Punishment

[Heather]

The question was raised in another thread what is wrong with kids today?  It is my belief that since the nation has almost criminalized corporal punishment, our children are becoming more intolerant.  I am just curious.  How were you punished as a child?  I will be the first to admit that I got my butt whooped ONE time by my father's belt.  My mother often swatted me for minor things, but when I broke our broom over my brother's head I got beat by my daddy and I have NEVER forgotten it!  I was 9 years old and that was the LAST time I got in trouble until I stayed out ONCE past curfew.  I didn't have a car for at least 6 months after that. I learned early on that there was consequences for my actions, and those consequences were so bad I tried my best to be good.

I am a firm believer that the problem with kids today is limited or NO consequences for their actions.

Heather

[Heavy C]

I could not agree more.  It's the way my brothers and I were raised.  If you couple the lack of corporal punishment along with a slew of parents that are more concerned about being a 'friend' to their kids rather than a parent; then you have the intolerant kids we see today.

[rex6666]

My dad used his belt on me several times up to 15yo then he told me i was
getting to big for that, next time we would do it man to man.
I don't know if he really meant it, but he made a believer out of me
don't know that i acted that much better but got a lot smarter, never gave
him reason again. I can't see where a good spanking of some kid hurts a kid.

[blackpowderbill]

I got the belt alot but I do not feel it was unwarrented. I got away with far more than I ever got caught for.

[Questor]

I don't think there's a problem with kids today. If there's something we don't like about them it's because of the parents and other adults around them. In other words, don't blame the kids because they got a bad upbringing. If we give them the right influences, most of them will be alright.

[powderman]

HEATHER. You are right on the money. Mom used a switch and only once I can remember that my Dad used a belt. All it took was a look or a word from my Dad and I was devastated that I had disappointed him. We were very close and after 33 years I still miss him. I knew a lady at an apt complex where I worked, a devout Christian, her 9 year old daughter was a real handful. She called to her daughter to come up for dinner one day, the brat ignored her. She called a 2nd time, brat hollered back NOOOO. After the 3rd call the brat called her Mom a B---- among other things. Momma went inside and came down with a belt. She hit her 3X on the BUTT, not the legs or the back, and not very hard then took the brat upstairs. 15 minutes later the police showed up and arrested her for child abuse. She went to court where the judge asked her if she knew that she was guilty of child abuse. She said NO SIR, I am not. She quoted some scripture, the judge dismissed the case. That was 15 years ago and it's worse today. POWDERMAN. 

[Badnews Bob]

I have always told my friends that I got beat as a kid but I am a better person for it, I agree with you 100% .

[Graybeard]

None of those options come remotely close to what went on at our house when I was growing up with one younger brother and two sisters one older one younger.

Sitting at the table eating if one of us said anything that failed to meet with parental approval or dared to be so clumsy as to spill our milk we got an immediate back of the hand across the face as hard as they could swing from whichever parent was closest. If only once we were lucky.

Away from the table anything that failed to meet their approval meant we were whipped with an inch or so wide leather belt and it was as hard as they could swing as many times as they could until they were tired. Where the belt landed was of no consequence to either of them and as you danced around from the pain believe me it was not always on the butt it landed. We were always held in place firmly with one hand while the other swung the belt.

I remember once my oldest sister was slapped so hard by mother she went flying across the room into the wall and then the belt came out. Dad still was whipping my older sister with a leather belt when she was a senior in high school.

He tried it on me once too many times once I got to that age and I took it from him and told him if he ever laid a hand on me again for the rest of my life he was a dead man and believe me at the moment I meant it completely. I soon left there for good and never looked back.

I have only bad memories of my days growing up there and the beatings we all got for even the smallest infraction or just because one or both were drunk and felt like taking it out on someone. Even my mother and grandmother on dad's side were afraid of him and the back of his hand he'd give them as well if he didn't like what they said or did.

In today's world both of them likely would have been sent to prison for what they did to us and we'd likely have been raised by our grand parents or in foster care.

The only thing I ever got from my parents was a hard time. When mom died rather than any of us getting any of her things they were put out at a yard sale to be sold or thrown away. When dad died his will rather than leaving any of us anything listed all the money he thought we owned him for raising us I suppose. He left it all to others not kin to him not that he had much anyway. He had a lot of folks fooled about him who met him later in life and didn't know him when he was younger.

In my opinion it was a model of how not to raise kids.

[DDZ]

Exactly Heather! If there are no consequences for a child's behavior or actions, they will keep doing what they are doing. My daughter-in-law was taught that giving a child "time outs" is the thing to do. She had my Son trying the time out ploy also. They learned their lesson by seeing that it doesn't work, and my telling them it ain't going to work. They have switched to the swat on the backside method. I guess Time-outs are the new thing now for disciplining kids. How anyone expects that to work is beyond me. Just ask any kid what they would rather have. Five minutes in a corner, or whacked across their butt with a belt or paddle. If a kid ever got whacked with a leather belt I could bet what their answer would be.
 
My father would use his belt, and at times if my Mom was close to it would use the washing stick. It was the stick used for the old ringer washers. When I saw my Dad taking his belt off it struck fear in my eyes, and believe me it made me listen.  

Yes, without a doubt it made me a better person also.  

[Old Fart]

Dang Bill it's been a long time since I heard of another upbringing like mine.
Biggest difference is one day he just walked up and said get out. No warning.
Much like yours he left everything to others. Not that I really care.
The only thing I ever really wanted he wouldn't give.
The only thing I have of his was only recently given to me by a brother.
His old Arisaka T38 he brought back from WWII.
I won't pass the stories down, but I will the gun.

[gstewart44]

GB - sounds similar to mine.    I believe that corporal punishment is warranted and works if it is applied by a parent that is not enraged out of control and/or drunk.  

My dad's temper was explosive and worse when he'd been drinking.   His usual punishment for minor things was his belt.   I had to drop trou and bare my butt while gripping the foot board of my bed.  He'd then unleash 3-5 full swings with that strap of leather.    Most of the time I had a real sore backend for several days but a few times he caught me with the rough edge of the belt which raise a welt with blood just under the surface.   My mom used a metal hair brush used for teasing hair.   We had to strip to our underwear and she would let loose with ten whacks of that brush against the backs of our thighs. Man that hurt. 

As my dad's  drinking progressed his temper got shorter and his application of punishment got scarier - he started to do the backhand/knuckles across the face  - he swung at my younger brother once while we were riding in the car....his missed my brothers head and hit the window, cracking it.   Another time he picked my brother up off the ground by the throat pinning him to the wall and choked him out.  

when I was 13 he came in drunk with his belt mad about something.   I picked up my Little League bat and told him I was not going to be beaten anymore.  He just looked at me, dropped the belt and never tried to hit me again.   He actually started getting nicer.   I don't know what switched in his head but things were different after that.  

[Sourdough]

Bill:  I'm glad I was not the only one raised like that.  I remember being slapped at the table so hard the chair went over backwards.  Being beat so bad with switches or a belt that blood was freely flowing down my back and legs.  Then my Mom being afraid to let me go to school till my back healed enough not to be bleeding through my shirt, and the bruses on my face went away.  When Mom got mad what ever was at hand was aimed at my head.  Recieved multiple concussions, but at the time being a small kid I did not know what was going on, just that the lights either went out or got real narrow.  Ran away many times, all it got me was a severe beating when I was caught.  Started working at the age of 16, mainly to get away from my abusive Mom.  She took all my money and kept it.  She claimed that was what I owed her for feeding me and putting a roof over my head.

Two days after turning 18, I got a beating for trying to act too uppity, according to her.  She broke a broom stick over my head, knocked out a front tooth and broke three of my fingers.  And no I was not able to fight back.  I was suffering malnutrition so bad I could hardly get around.  I was 6'3" tall and weighed 117lbs.  She was 5'9" and 140lbs of solid muscle, seniew, and meanness.  The next day I left for work as usual, under a death threat if I did not show up that afternoon with my paycheck.  Actually I knew she would not kill me, she liked my pay check too much.  

I caught a ride into Nashville and talked to the Air Force Recruiter.  I was too skinny for the draft and the Army, but I had heard the Air Force had a special program where they would take Fat or Skinny people, if they scored high enough on the entrance test.  I had scored high on the test that was given during my senior year, and felt I could get into the Air Force.  I made it and when I explained my difficulty to the recruiter he sent me to Lackland that day.  I never looked back, and only go back to visit once every three or four years.  I refuse to live in Tennessee, or anywhere near her.


Now as for how I raised my kids.  Both of my boys got their diapers smacked for doing things they knew they were not suposed to do.  One rule that got their butt lifted was stepping down off the curb without holding either their Mom's hand or mine.  After about three years of age both stopped doing things to get their behind smacked.  At that point Kirk's Mom and I got divorced, and his Grandfather became the dominate force in his life.  With Skyler, after he turned three maybe once or twice a year something would come up where I felt disapline was needed.  We would sit down and discuss it.  That seemed to do more damage than the spanking.  Then after we came to a determination as to how many licks were required with the paddle, punishment was metted out.  At the age of six Sky's Mom and I decided having something taken away was the best way to go.  Sky said he would rather take the licks with the paddle than to lose his gameboy or not be able to go somewhere he had planned.  All the more reason to change punishment methods.  I think the last time Sky was grounded was when he was a freshman in high school.

[williamlayton]

Such are the reasons children need protection though that has gotten out of hand and the pendelum has swung father to the left than is need in most instances.
Boy did I get whuppins with the belt buckle end of the belt---wasn't always on the butt.
Blessings

[redboot612]

I got my share of the belt/switch when I was a kid to when I was a young man.  Then when I got married and I used my hand on my children.  About 3 good swats with the hand to their butt is about all my hand could stand and probably all their butts could stand, and made them sit on the couch until I told them to go play.  I think sitting on the couch hurt them worse than the hand to the butt.  Any way they turned out good and haven't been in trouble since they been grown.

Red

[The Hermit]

GB, ditto treatment. 70 some years latter, I still have nightmares.
I never laid a hand on my children, didn't have too. I set them down at an early age and explained how things should go. I was fortunate that they were easy to raise. My son graduated Valedictorian as did my daughter,( kinda proud of that). They both got college degrees.
After the kids grew up and married, Donna and I took in 17 foster children over the years. Only 2 were incorrigable and are "guests" of the state. I feel that I failed them, but the other 15 are doing well and are spread across the country. Donna would be proud.
I guess you have to do what works for you in raising kids. I got lucky.

   The Hermit

[Swampman]

I got plenty of spankings and gave them as needed.  My mother was a Christian and she followed scripture as did I.  Never been in jail nor have my kids. 

[bobg]

  My father was very handy with the belt. He told me one day that he was afraid once he started on me he would kill me. After that the punishement was left up to my mother. I don't remember her ever hitting me. Her favorite was. Well Bob looks like you will be staying in the house for the next three days. When my daughters got older they told me they were never afraid of me hitting them. All i did was holler at them. The two older ones have done ok in life. The  youngest of the three is a different story. She is 34 and so lazy she has not worked a day in her life.
      bobg

[FLNT4EVR]

GB +1    Thats all I'm gonna say.

[rockbilly]

I am a firm believer in the old saying, “Spare the rod, and spoil the kid.”  I see nothing wrong with tanning a fanny, but cases such as those described by GB are nothing more than child abuse and can not be tolerated.

I think children that grow up in an abusive family turn out, in most case, to be abusers themselves.  Could this is the cause of so many violent people, just working out the rage built up from so many years of abuse?

Of course, a lot depends on the child, we raised three children, I could talk to my son and get positive results, and he once told a friend that I was meaner than the devil, but that I was fair.  I took that as a complement.  The two girls were so hardheaded I could have beaten them twice a day and never taught them to tow the line.  I did maintain some discipline by taking away privileges.  Matter of fact, the oldest daughter and I just had a conversation about this yesterday, she has a daughter hat is giving her the same hell she gave me.  I think a lot of the problem with the granddaughter is that she is over indulged by her parents, not given any responsibility are held accountable for anything.

[powderman]

I told 2 of my wifes boys that I prayed they would have many kids, all twins and triplets, and that every sgl one would be just like them. POWDERMAN. 

[Oldshooter]

I got my share of whippins! Had a few broomhandles swung at my head as well! I deserved most of em!

I dont think its the whippin thats the important thing though. Its the holding to account for your actions that is important. My children are all grown now, and I always get the "Dad was a Ogre" thing and you didn't mess with him and all that! But I'll tell you all, and them as well that they were great kids, yea, they got whippings and were punished, but they knew what was expected of them and they behaved. Never had to discipline any of them in Church or in public, they knew better. They ate what was given them and made no fuss. No parent is prouder than I am of my kids. My youngest paid his way through college, wouldn't take a dime. He is a better man than i am, I'll tell you that now!

Love em, and keep em on the right path, and you will be proud!
Be a buddy to them and let em slide and you will rue the day.

[gypsyman]

I can remember my ma breaking a badminton racket over my butt once. Tried to do a high jump over a small tree she had just planted, and broke it. That took a day or so to get over. When I was 16 or so, smart talked back to my dad. He threw a choke hold on me against the wall, and explained life. Kinda gave him more leeway after that.
With having 2 boys right now,8 and 11, I handle them both differently. This sounds funny, but, I guess my opinion. I compare children to dogs. There is an old saying, you teach a black labrador retriever with a 2''x4'', and a golden with a tissue paper. I've had 2 golden retrievers, so I can attest to this.
My oldest is 5'6'' and 165lbs. I'm 5'11'' and go 240. He's not eye to eye yet, but, to just get his attention sometimes I really have to let him hear me. I'll tell him 2 or 3 times to do something, and by the time I get to the 3rd time, I'm in his face. My 8 year old, really tries to please his dad. Not to long ago he messed up on something, and I got into his face about it. Wasn't a minute and he was crying, telling me he was sorry and would do better. I believe you have to know your child's attitude,temperment,caracter, and handle each one differently. Sometimes you need a 2''x4'', and sometimes a tissue. gypsyman

[Bullshop Junior]

I get my guns taken away, the keys to my snow machine locked up, the inshurance taken off of my truck, and things like that. I used to get spanked from time to time, and never did like it.

[magooch]

I guess there is no accounting for what is the right way to raise kids, but my sister and I were so lucky to have parents that found the right way.  I can't remember ever being spanked.  About the most that my Mother ever had to do was threaten to get her wooden spoon.  My Dad had very strong hands and when he needed to restore order, all that was necessary was for him to take hold of one of us by the arm, or shoulder.

My two kids were disciplined in much the same way, but I do remember kicking my son in the butt one time when he was a teenager.  He had scattered my tools all over the driveway while working on his truck.  He had tools of his own and had been told to keep his hands off of mine.  I don't believe in being violent with kids, but sometimes you just have to get their attention.

[MGMorden]

Don't have any kids of my own yet.  I do have 2 nieces (one of which is currently living with me with her mother/my sister - long story, but in short the father is a deadbeat and she needed somewhere to stay for a while).  For the most part, I'm not one for corporal punishment.  Not that I care how others handle their kids (my brother is choosing that route with 1 niece - my sister is not with the other.  whatever they choose it's their choice), it's just that there have been quite a few studies that indicate that it just doesn't work as well as many think.  Namely, it teaches the child to distrust the parent as well as teaching them early on that the response to all problems that arise is violence.

Now, growing up I certainly was spanked.  Usually with a belt on the rear, and usually from my mom.  My dad would pull out the belt but very rarely.  His discipline was more what I'd call fair.  My mom had been spanked quite severely as a child (in reality it was more on the order of child abuse - my mother has claimed the more than once they were beaten with a wooden boat paddle until they were bleeding) and it translated into her spankings she doled out as an adult.  Never brought blood, but I remember a few times my dad pulling my mom off of either me or my brother and them arguing over her "beating the kids like a dog".  She mellowed out as we got older though.  I remember the last spanking I got was when I was 12 or 13.  By that time I was getting older - my mom took out the belt and was swinging as hard as she could and after a while I just started laughing at her effort.  After that she gave up on the spanking and resorting to grounding or taking things away (computer, car, etc).  In all honestly I think that worked much better.  Which is a worse perspective to a kid: a spanking that they're not going to care about 10 minutes later, or loosing TV or computer privileges for a week? 

In general though, I just didn't get into much trouble growing up anyways.  I was typically pretty shy, an honor student (graduated 2nd in my high school class of over 350), and didn't like to go out and party too much. 

[Brett]

I see no problem with corporal punishment (spanking with or without tools) as long as it is not done out of anger.  My wife and I made it a point to cool off before dealing out the punishment.  I think the anticipation of what was coming was more punishment than the actual spankings.  And of course the spanking should never be so severe as to draw blood or leave permanent scars. 

[DDZ]

Big difference if the punishment is given because of love rather than hate.

[Questor]

By cracky, if only we had more parents with red hot pokers, thumb screws, iron maidens, racks, and a willingness to use them the world would be a better place, dad gummit! Why as my ol grampappy useter say while he was carving his initials or a swastika in my forehead "spare the rod and spoil the child". 

[Swampman]

Proverbs 13:24 "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

Let's at least get the quote right.

[mechanic]

When my Dad got "in his cups", he was liable to do anything, including using a fist.  I took some of that for my younger siblings for a while.  When I got old enough to drive, the first time pop got drunk, I put him in his own car and took him to the VA hospital, and dropped him at the desk.  They said they would not take, him, I said do what you want I'm leaving him.  I had to sign him into Psych for detox.  End result, I had to sign him out.  I left him several months, during which time I found all his hidden liquor and poured it out, and took all his guns and stuff to pawn to my house and hid it.

It took a couple years for a relationship to grow between us, but I'm thankful we had some good years and became friends.

I am now of the mind that if I see someone beating a child, (not whipping, but beating, ) they are going to have to beat me too.


I was sitting in a restaurant once and a man backhanded a 3 year old little girl so hard she fell over backwards.  He was in one of those slide around booths, and I kept him there until the cops arrived.  I made sure they called DEFACS before I left.

There is a difference in spanking and beating.  The same goes for yelling at and belittleing children.  I won't listen to that either.