1972 .45 cal Huntsman quest.

[bjgolfnut]

Hey, I year or two ago I purchased a old Huntsman in ,45 cal., ser # AJ305487.  It had a stuck breech plug which I eventually removed after a lot of sweat .  I own a .50 cal which I purchased in 2003 and the loads I usually shoot out of it are 460 gr No Excuse over 70 gr 777 or, 250 HP/XTP over 80 gr 777 for Whitetail Deer.
My question is can I shoot these loads in the .45 .  It has a breech plug that takes a #11 cap with I guess is what you would call the old type firing pin.  Thanks for reading and for any comments you might make .

Live Long and Prosper, bruce

[k]

i have an eariy 70's .45 huntsman it has a 1/56" twist.i've only shot patched round balls in mine but it will probably shoot a short conical ok.

[PHATINJUN]

I shoot 385 gr No Excuses out of my .45 Huntsman just started shooting Blackhorn out of it this yr and it packs a wallop but is very accurate to 75yards or better. This is with a converted 209 ignition. But i used Shockeys Gold before that with #11 cap. Starting grains is around 50 with a 250gr pure lead conical. Kurt

[bjgolfnut]

Hey Guys, Thanks for your replies.  K, how did you find out about the 1/56 twist , I know in the 2003 H&R catalog they list the twist for the .50 cal as 1/28, was hopeing that the old .45 might be the same.  Phatijun, glad to hear that you are shooting a large conical, I will try my 460 NE's over 65 gr 777 and see what happends. One thing I noticed, they is hardly any room between the firing pin and the nipple/breech plug .  Will let you know what happends.  Thanks again.

     LETS GO JETS!

[PHATINJUN]

It tells ya how to check the twist rate in the FAQ's. One great thing about this site is if you got a ?? it's in the FAQ's plus a ton of information you ain't even thought of thinking about yet. The FAQ's a great place to spend a day or 3 .Kurt

[mcgiiver]

Hey, I year or two ago I purchased a old Huntsman in ,45 cal., ser # AJ305487.  It had a stuck breech plug which I eventually removed after a lot of sweat .  I own a .50 cal which I purchased in 2003 and the loads I usually shoot out of it are 460 gr No Excuse over 70 gr 777 or, 250 HP/XTP over 80 gr 777 for Whitetail Deer.
My question is can I shoot these loads in the .45 .  It has a breech plug that takes a #11 cap with I guess is what you would call the old type firing pin.  Thanks for reading and for any comments you might make .

Live Long and Prosper, bruce

Not sure what you are trying to do here. I have a fair amount of experience with the old .45 Huntsman, like PhatInjun. My heavy load is a 291 grain Minie over 70 grain equivalent of Pyrodex P. I can say that's pretty powerful load that I really don't feel safe exceeding. I think the manual says 291 grain bullet with 75 grains of FFFg black powder. You really cannot compare .50 loads to .45's, its apples and oranges. All the old .45's were 1:56" twist. (measured).  The new Huntsman in .50 cal with 1:28 twist is an entirely different animal than the old .45's. There is simply no comparison between them as far as loads go. Whitetails are not particularly hard animals to put down, a plain round ball in .45 will do the job just fine, been there done that.  Please clarify more precisely what your question is and we will try to help you.

[PHATINJUN]

If I read this right I think you are talking about .45cal NE's out of the .45 and not trying to shoot the .50cal 460 NE's out of the 45 ...that won't work Kurt

[bjgolfnut]

Hey,  I have 4 MZ's, Two White's, one in .50 and one in .45cal.  Two H&R's, One in .50 and one in .45 cal.  I like to use the 460 No Excuse in both Whites and in the .50 cal H.R.  No, I do not try and shoot the 50.cal NE out of the .45 cal White and would not try it in the H&R either.
     As far as no comparison between them as far as loads go. what the Owner's Manual says about the .45cal Conical Bullet: 450 grains, Black Powder ffg 80 grains.
the .50cal Conical Bullet: 400-470 grains. Black Powder ffg 80 grains.
     As I said in my opening post, can I shoot a 460 grain No Excuse Conical over 70 grains of 777.  What I have learned is start with 60 grains and if need be work up to 65. Will probably not try and shoot the xtp's unless I have no luck with the No Excuse's.

    Live Long and Prosper, Bruce

[Busta]

Bruce,

I just can't imagine that 460 NE shooting well out of that 1:56 twist. Especially when your .451 white is a 1:20 twist and will shoot them perfectly. The H&R twist is almost 3 times slower than the White. I too have a .451 White, .504 White, and the .50 cal Huntsman. The 460 NE's shoot well in all of them. I have a few .50 caliber Knights 1:28 twist that they shoot well in. I also have two Knight .45 cals, one in 1:20, and one in 1:30. The 460s shoot well in the 1:20, but I can't ever recall trying them in the 1:30, probably because I know the 1:20 is optimum for them in a .45 cal. I have however shot long saboted bullets in my Knight .45's, the 1:20 will stabilize them, the 1:30 will keyhole them.

But, I guess you'll never know until you try. Good luck!

[PHATINJUN]

Ok to lessen the confusion even more let's refer every thing to your H&R's as I think the loads you are quoting are from your White manual? I love the NE conicals and it is pretty much all I shoot out of my H&R's and I did not know they had a 460 gr 45cal conical. What I can tell you is the manual for the Huntsman list it's recommended starting load for the 45cal conical @ 50grFFFG and a 250gr pure lead conical. I have worked up a load that works for me and this is a try at your own risk but I have used it and as you can clearly see it is way over what the original recommended load should be. The bullet flies true and I have found no evidence of any problems and it is burning all the powder. I am using an after market breech plug with a 209 ignition system 80gr of Blackhorn powder and a 385gr NE conical. I have not chronyed this but based on just the thump it gives you compared to my hand loaded 500gr 20ga slugs and a 360gr 45Colt rifle load I shoot I am confident the conical is doing between 1400-1600fps not real scientific but with as much testing as I have done with these 3 guns I think I got a feel for it. I would think if you got 460gr 45cal NE's and was using 777 and a #11 cap if you start at say 60gr of powder you would be ok to test from there. Don't get me wrong but I think 460gr 45cal is quite a lot for the 45 and I like heavy bullets . Keep us updated. Kurt

[bjgolfnut]

Hey Busta, You are everywhere .  Will try the NE 460's in the H&R to see what happends.  The reason I wanted to try them is I like the bullet and I would be using less powder, 65 gr.777 which works best in my White.  The reason I wanted to use less powder is that the New England Firearms/H&R Owner's Manual (2003) page 13 which list loads for muzzleloading ,45 caliber, Conical Bullets , projectile weight         Black Powder Charge ffg grain  
                                                                   240                                                                  100
                                                                   450                                                                   80
I felt that maybe starting around 60/65 gr of 777 ffg would be a safe load if they are recommending 80 gr of Black Powder or Pyrodex RS on a volume basis which they recommed also on page 13.

     I have been using MZ's exclusively since 2003 for all hunting after I sold off my centerfire rifles.  Don't know a lot but have learned much over the last 8 years by visiting many site, where I seem to always find you .  What threw me off with the twist on the .45 is, have a page which I copied off the old H&R web site which shows specifications for the Huntsman (SMO-5- and SMO-045.  Barrel 24"(1 in 28" twist - 50cal)(1in 20" twist -45cal) .  The Huntsman they are talking about have the 209 shotshell primer but, the .45 I have has the old #11 breechplug.  I don't know if they ever built or sold the .45 caliber Huntsman .  

     Last but not least, Phatinjun, like I said above, this info came out of the NEF Owners Manual which I purchased in March 2003 at WalMart in PA.  You must have the original manual from the Old Huntsman , not calling you old . from sometime back in the 70's, wish I had a copy since I try to save everything I can get my hands on pertaining to the guns I own.

     Thanks to all who have posted, every little bit helps to add to the Whole Story. PS Have been a member of AARP for over15 years .
                  

[Busta]

Bruce,

H&R/NEF never released that newer .45 caliber Huntsman. They decided against it, I think because all the other manufacturers were pulling their 1:20 twist .45's because nobody could get them to shoot. Of course they were trying to shoot sub 200 grain saboted bullets at warp speed, and it wasn't working out very well. Both T/C and Knight were getting the 1:20 twist barrels returned and they were replacing them with 1:28 and 1:30 twist barrels respectively.

Of course, I was chomping at the bit, waiting for them to release this new .45 with the 1:20 twist. And am still waiting! It never happened, so disregard that .45 cal info in your 2003 Owners Manual. I also have the 2003 Huntsman and information.

The 1970's .45 calibers were 1:56 twist, like others have said.

Here is a pic, just so others don't think you went off the deep end. I got your back.

[bjgolfnut]

Hey Busta,  Thanks for posting that info.  Have to get this old .45 out to the range and see what happends .

Live Long and Prosper, Bruce

[PHATINJUN]

Now I see where you are coming from...yes just another example of things H&R has teased us with over the yrs. Big plans that never bore fruit. Keep your eyes peeled at all time though and if you can beat me to it but some times those things escaped the factory never seen one yet but we had never seen a 17HMR versa pack til a fellow posted here one day 1.5 yr later I own that bbl. It still appears to be an orphan so there just may be an orphan fast twist .45 out there some where .PM me you address I'll send ya a copy of the old manual for your files. Kurt

[bjgolfnut]

Hey Kurt,

    Thank you very much for the offer, sent PM .Hopefully I can help you out some time.

           Live Long and Prosper, Bruce