Author Topic: 444 HANDI (Read 1925 times)

RED132 · « **on:** January 15, 2010, 12:09:05 PM »

I was at gander mountain today in Robison Township north west of Pittsburgh. They had a 444 on the shelf that had a stainless or nickel frame a blued barrel and camo synthetic stock some off brand 3x9 40mm scope for $299. I asked the guy behind the counter if this was a gander only thing he said it was, kind of like the camo blued ones dick's have. If someone in the area is looking for a 444 it is still there.

hunter63 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 15, 2010, 12:58:52 PM »

Was it on the "new shelf" or used?
Sounds like Bubba special?

RED132 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 15, 2010, 01:40:00 PM »

Hunter63 it was on the new rack. I asked the guy behind the counter and he said is was new. I open the action up but could no see sn# on the barrel. The sn# on the frame was CBA

Plainsman · « **Reply #3 on:** January 15, 2010, 08:53:57 PM »

Yep, they are new! There's one at the Gander here too! I'd hate to touch off a .444 in a Handi! It's fine in my Marlin levergun tho!

Swampman · « **Reply #4 on:** January 15, 2010, 11:44:42 PM »

Loaded with a Lee 310 grain cast lead bullet it can be as mild or as wild as you like.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** January 16, 2010, 06:27:18 AM »

Or 355gr gas checked or 265gr Hornadys or 240gr XTPs.

Tim

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #6 on:** January 16, 2010, 06:34:00 AM »

Get it, I really like my 444 Handi. May catch lots of grief for this,

but I like it better than my 45-70 Handi.

DP

Swampman · « **Reply #7 on:** January 16, 2010, 06:50:24 AM »

It's like pie. My favorite is the one I'm having for dessert.

gunther66 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:36:08 PM »

Quick
what mold casts the 355 gr bullet and will it chamber in your 444 without lengthning the throat?
Thanks,gunther66

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:43:09 PM »

It worked fine with no throating, it's a Beartooth Bullet, scroll down on the left side to the .44 cals. I loaded them to a COL of 2.631" which is .007" off the lands. They've got a bunch of info on big bullets for the .444.

Tim

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/17

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/19

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/28

gunther66 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:56:49 PM »

Thanks Quick
I have some reading to do.
My problem is the LBT 325 gr I have tried has two crimping grooves and seating to the upper on really compresses the powder and seating to the lower one won't allow the round to chamber. g66

Joe S. · « **Reply #11 on:** January 16, 2010, 04:26:07 PM »

My 444 handi isn't that bad. It is a great shooter. Get it, you'd love it!

IndianawantZme · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2010, 12:26:30 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 16, 2010, 01:43:09 PM

It worked fine with no throating, it's a Beartooth Bullet, scroll down on the left side to the .44 cals. I loaded them to a COL of 2.631" which is .007" off the lands. They've got a bunch of info on big bullets for the .444.

Tim

There's one at the Gander here too!

I've been looking at it , it's a handsome rifle .

I've been looking for a straight wall cartridge to hunt Indiana deer with . The problem is that they have a maximum cartridge case length of 1.625 inches . Logically a .44 Rem. Mag. is the ticket , however ; a .444 Marlin might be better for here in PA .

I've heard the problems wtih attempting to shoot 44 M's in a 444 M before ,headspace , case diameters , OAL & jump to the lands , accuracy , etc ..

Since you shoot these guns and handload too , what do you think the possibility of cutting a .444 case down to 1.625 , possibly ID reaming and then seating a heavy 300 grain plus bullet out closer to the rifling lands of a "Handi" for that possibly one [ under 100 yards ] shot a year in Indiana and using . 444's for hunting within PA ?

....because basically that's what I think you're ending up with minus aprox . 0.625" extra case length supporting the bullet if my calculations are close .

I know power wise I wouldn't be gaining anything over a 44 or 444 but .....would it be feasible and/or safe ??

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2010, 12:57:51 PM »

I'd get an SB2 44mag and rechamber it by hand with a rented 445 Supermag reamer and use it in both states, in this state it wouldn't matter what round you have in the chamber, if the 444 isn't legal, it would be a violation to carry it even with a legal round in the chamber. Data below is for a pistol, in a 22" barrel, you'll get ~1975fps with the 300gr XTP. An alternative would be to get the .444, and have a .44mag accessory barrel fitted, or buy a used barrel and fit it yourself.

Tim

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Handgun/Standarddata/44Cal(10.97mm)/445%20Super%20Mag%20page%20136.pdf

IndianawantZme · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2010, 01:35:16 PM »

..... yeahhhh...... you're probably right !

Thanks for your prompt input .

Matter of fact I put a deposit on a SB2 44 Mag , Blue/Black synthetic stock ; but the .444 Marlin/scope combo is so tempting at that price and much better looking camo/stainless and all .

I'm just a sucker for a good deal is all I guess .and like the best of both worlds ; like I NEED another gun !

I'll have to look into that . 445 SuperMag and consider the extra 44 M barrel option too . I suppose by the time all is said and done the cost of rechambering or rebarreling are close to the same .

.... or I could just convince myself the 44 M will satisfy me , after all that WAS my original idea and intent until I saw that 444 model for the same money .

I have always admired the .444 Marlin .

Thanks again .

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2010, 01:55:32 PM »

A true Handiholic would have both, ya know!!

The 445SM can still shoot 44spl and 44mag too, so it's quite versatile. The 444 can be handloaded to 44mag velocities, but that doesn't help in Indiiana. $:-\$

Tim

IndianawantZme · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2010, 02:03:33 PM »

.........I was thinking , "Just buy them both ! }}} laff{{{

I was waiting for you to reply before I posted that !

IndianawantZme · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2010, 02:12:32 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 22, 2010, 01:55:32 PM

A true Handiholic would have both, ya know!!

Tim

I really like the idea of the 'ideal" cartridge in a basic utility rifle for hunting in Indiana for some reason .

I already have a .30-30 Win / 12 Ga. combo "Handi" in stainless/wood , but that doesn't help me down there either !

Thanks again Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2010, 02:22:02 PM »

preventec47 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2010, 03:54:31 PM »

I remember reading that the twist rate for the 444 sounded completely
reasonable while the 44mag was something crazy like 38 to 1 etc.

I thought to myself, if the barrel bores are the same size why
dont they use the same twist rate for the 44 mag as the 444 ?

IndianawantZme · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2010, 04:11:21 PM »

The .44 Rem Mag barrel is supposed to be one full turn of rifling in 38 inches of barrel .

According to http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm

.444 Marlin rifling twist rate is also optimal at 1:38

Swampman · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2010, 04:13:39 PM »

Current Marlin .444s are 1 in 20.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** January 22, 2010, 06:19:34 PM »

Quote from: IndianawantZme on January 22, 2010, 04:11:21 PM

The .44 Rem Mag barrel is supposed to be one full turn of rifling in 38 inches of barrel .

According to http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm

.444 Marlin rifling twist rate is also optimal at 1:38

H&R 44mag is 1:38", 2007 and later H&R 444 Marlins are 1:20", same as the current Marlin .444 leverguns, older H&R Ultras were 1:38".

Tim

IndianawantZme · « **Reply #23 on:** January 22, 2010, 07:54:22 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 22, 2010, 12:57:51 PM

.......or buy a used barrel and fit it yourself.

Tim

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Handgun/Standarddata/44Cal(10.97mm)/445%20Super%20Mag%20page%20136.pdf

Just curious , what's involved in fitting one of those barrels ?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** January 22, 2010, 08:15:33 PM »

See barrel fitting in the FAQs.

Tim

cwlongshot · « **Reply #25 on:** January 22, 2010, 08:16:55 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 22, 2010, 08:15:33 PM

See barrel fitting in the FAQs.

Tim

Even at 2AM you QUICK!! Mornin Timmy!!

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #26 on:** January 22, 2010, 08:22:08 PM »

Not even half past eleven yet, not quite bedtime!!

Tim

IndianawantZme · « **Reply #27 on:** January 22, 2010, 08:38:33 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 22, 2010, 12:57:51 PM

I'd get an SB2 44mag and rechamber it by hand with a rented 445 Supermag reamer and use it in both states, i
Tim

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 22, 2010, 12:57:51 PM

I'd get an SB2 44mag and rechamber it by hand with a rented 445 Supermag reamer and use it in both states,

Tim

After doing some research on the .445 Supermag .....
....according to http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w445supmag.html

Last line before the chart: "The case is a shortened 444 Marlin and is not safe to shoot 44 Magnums in guns so chambered."

This pretty much describes the cartridge I detailed in my first post then ? or a .444 shortened to 1.625 / 300 gr.

.445SM is actually a shortened .444 M case and not a lengthened .44M case ?

Thanks again Tim !

cwlongshot · « **Reply #28 on:** January 22, 2010, 08:41:27 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 22, 2010, 08:22:08 PM

Not even half past eleven yet, not quite bedtime!!

Tim

OH yea.. that whole time zone thingie... Well its LATE/VERY EARLY here.. I can't sleep tonight.. too much going on in me head...
Some warm milk and back to the sack... nite all. (Sorry for the hijack)

CW

briannmilewis · « **Reply #29 on:** January 22, 2010, 09:58:00 PM »

Here are the drawings for 445 Super Mag and 444 Special...

Not to scale. In another thread I suggested you could cut the 44 Marlin back to a case length of 1.775, and you would have what would be called a 444 Special, and still expect it to be accurate. A case length of 1.625 in the 444 would be anyones guess.

You could just get the 500 S&W Mag handi as that has a case length of 1.625".