45/70 MAUSER

[adirondacker]

I remember when i was a kid a fella had a 45/70 mauser at the range that someone had built.i have asked a few people about it over the yrs and as close as i can tell the siamese action is the one needed,i guess feeding is the biggest obstacle in making one of these.i think a little 45/70 mauser carbine with a scout style scope set up would be a nice project. i know they rebarrel the enfeilds to 45/70[gibbs rifle] it wasn't one of those,any ideas,thanks,adker

[billy_56081]

Everything I have heard about 45-70 built on a mauser action has been on the Siamese mauser. It is a very strong action able to withstand the top end level load data.

[Redtail1949]

a friend has a siamese mauser action rifle in .45.70. it has a heavy large diameter barrel and heavy custom target bench rest stock. though it was several tears back i will never forget shooting this gun. we worked up hand loads right at .458 magnum loads. had it not been for the weight (i think it was 14 lbs. or so) that son of a gun would have been unbearable to shoot.  left memories in my shoulder and bells in my head.

i would have loved to have the action and the caliber in a sporterized stock and used it as a hunting rifle. loading it up but not to the top of what is would handle. he said he sold it to a gunny last year.

the .45.70 in the proper weapons is a real strong and deadly beast.

[RG22lr]

I happen to have 1 22" barrel synthetic stock Redfeild peepand gold bead front. It is one of my favorites. Dennis

[billy_56081]

Dennis it would be great if you had some pics to share.

[Mikey]

The Siamese Mauser was a favorite for conversion to either the 45/70 or the 444 because the rifle originally used a rimmed cartridge.  Most converted rifles I have seen were well done with 20-22" barrels and bolt handles modified for scope use.  I think Navy Arms sold these conversions long before Gibbs even thought of converting SMLEs for the same purpose.  I think Navy Arms also sold 444 conversion barrels for Trapdoor Springfields. 

The only hangup for the Mausers was feeding from the magazine and I do not believe that problem was ever really adequately solved for many of those rifle owners and they were limited to only two or three rounds in the magazine.  I think someone finally managed to resolve that problem but I'm not sure.  I do know the Gibbs rifles have reworked magazines that allow for reliable cycling.  HTH.

[Bubajunk]

Hello all newbie here to the site. I had one of the Navy Arms Siamese based 45-70s. mine was the carbine version with a straight grip stock and 17 inch barrel. It originally had a straight bolt handle and a standard black blastic butt plate. I swapped the original bold handle for a slightly swept back 03  handle , installed a pachmyer recoil pad and a set of express type { shallow  V and bead } front sight. Like Mikey stated feeding was not as reliable as I would have likes so like a dope I traded it off on some forgotten deal. It was a decent shooter to say the least, it liked 350 gr Hornadys.

[RG22lr]

Gonna try the picture thing











Looks like I got it. here are the pics you guys asked for. Hope ya like them   Dennis

[Larry Gibson]

Here's my Siamese Mauser in 450-400-70 (Ok, it is a 45-70 but please allow me my hallucinations:-) ).  I built it back in the mid ''70s as a "pole patch" rifle for elk and it will indeed put a bullet from one end out the other.  The barrel is 24", the scope is a Leupold compact with heavy duplex and the Redfield base has the back up aperture sight that flips up when the scope is removed.  The jacketed bullet load is a Barnes 400 gr SP Original and it chugs along at 2250 fps at 62,000 psi(M43) with 49.2 ft lbs of recoil.  The cast bullet is the Lee C458-500-FN and it chugs along at 2050 fps with 50 ft lbs of recoil.  Both let you know you've pulled a trigger with the 8.5 lb rifle!

Larry Gibson

[bcp]

If you like 45-70 performance but are not stuck on the cartridge, you can rebarrel any common magnum rifle for the 450 Marlin, which is approximately a 45-70 with a belt instead of a rim.  Then you don't have the problems of feeding a rimmed case.

Bruce

[StrawHat]

I also built one in the 70s.  I had ER Shaw alter a Siamese action and install his 26" barrel.  I stocked it in walnut from Bishops and installed a Beech front sight and some forgotten receiver sight.   I got tired of having to keep ammo seperate from my trapdoor and eventually sold it.  Not too long ago while going through stuff in my Pops garage I came upon another Siamese Mauser so altered.  No stock or sights yet so this will be a fun project for me.

Siamese Mausers are now rare enough to command a premium so if I were to do it all over again I too would go the 450 Marlin route but I would use the Swedish action.  I prefer it to the M98.  You might prefer something else.  With the 450 Marlin you don't have to segragate ammo as you would with the 45-70 (or even the 458x2" American which was the wildcat version of the Marlin cartridge.)

If you choose a plain grained piece of American black walnut you can end up with a lightweight rifle.

[mcwoodduck]

If you like 45-70 performance but are not stuck on the cartridge, you can rebarrel any common magnum rifle for the 450 Marlin, which is approximately a 45-70 with a belt instead of a rim.  Then you don't have the problems of feeding a rimmed case.

Bruce

+1
I have a Simese action I had rebarreled to 45-70 and have many problems
1 Stock,  So far I could only find Fajen that will make it and it has taken me about 6 years to finally get a stock out of them.  (great looking stock bby the way - Black walnut - lindseed oil finish. (needs about four more coats but I am waiting for it to completely dry before scuffing.)
2 feeding ammo - the feed ramp was designed for a 8mm tapered bullet (think 303 brit)
3 adjusting the feed ramp to feed the flat pointed factory ammo.  (the Hornady Pointed flex tip helps)  but lots of sanding and filing.

The 450 Marlin was introduced a year after I started the project.  I thought about the 458X2 but wanted a factory round.  And did not want the head aches of 458 Win Mag.
Had I known about the 450 comming out the next year, I would have done it.
Easier to get a 98 action.
easy and multiple stock options for the action.
Bolts are already turned down.
and parts are availible to change the safety from the  over the top wing to three position M70 types or the slide like the Remington 700.
Having done it.  and wanting to do it again  I would look to use a 98 action and make it a 450 marlin.

[jdt48653]

there is a mauser that was made for rimmed cartridges,i sold one last month
on gbo.it was a 8.15x46r rimmed. they have a special bolt with an extra large
claw on the bolt,and the bolt face is extra large as to hold a rimmed cartridge.
these rifles were used for shooting matches and were not used in combat.
they are still around.the key is the caliber  8.15x46r.

[mcwoodduck]

The Siamese rounds were 8X50R Siamese and 8X52R Siamese
They are NOT, Repeat NOT the 8X50R Austrian.

[gcrank1]

Just stumbled across this thread in a search online.
I just came across a Siamese Mauser 45-70, 25ish" barrel, ramped express sights, in an almost 'California' style stock of fancy walnut (flared PG, good sized cheekpice but height right for the open sights), Pachmayr recoil pad, and about 10 1/2ish#. Its feeding the Fusion ammo 'OK' and has shot my cast reloads like a champ. It doesnt have a recoil crossbolt so Im not going to stoke it up (yet).
Its a monster, and a custom rifle in these days when I'll never be able to afford a bespoke build; just a local gunshow find, not terrible pricey and 'kinda cool' (and I already reload & cast for it).
Anybody here do anything with the up-post notions?

[craigster]

I have two Siams, one in 45-70, the other in 30 US (30-40 Krag). Both feed and shoot quite well with both wimp and full house loads, and everything in between.


45-70



30 US

[siamese4570]

I built one of these in the late seventies.  A company called Federal firearms rebarreled it with a 19" barrel.  I had a local smith install a redfield peep sight.  I was into heavy loads and split the old military stock.  Restocked with a manlicher stock from fajen.  Last alteration was a 21/2 power redfield scope.  still have it although it doesn't get used uch since i got my 45-70 handi rifle.  it will do 11/2" groups on a good day.
siamese4570

[Androclese]

I did one of those conversions in the mid 70's, aside from the Barrel change, the guide rails have to be opened up to allow the chunky 45-70 case to move through from the magazine, also the bolt face recess has to be widened to accept the larger rim.  A different stock is a great idea, for strength, and for your comfort when shooting it. (Your shoulder may not be pleased)

[gcrank1]

Ive noticed that it may be a good idea for me to reduce my rim dia. a smidge and dedicate the brass to this rifle. The bolt face has been opened probably as far as is prudent. I will compare my other bolt guns available that feed flawlessly for rim dia. and bolt recess before anything to determine what seems to be an average clearance. The RN 500gr.'ers sure to feed pretty well though, but for 'plinkiing' I kinda hate to use that much lead.
But did I buy this to plink with?......hmmmm, perhaps not......

[1911crazy]

Since i t bears alone now im interested in a bigger cannon for upclose and personal work.  i been thinking of a 45/90 or 50/90.  but i seen the wild west guns in ak on tv they offer a 457magnum.  its a,45/70 loaded hotter i guess.  Gibbs did offer a 45/70 on a mauser receicer manys ago i remember seeing it. 

[mcwoodduck]

Since i t bears alone now im interested in a bigger cannon for upclose and personal work.  i been thinking of a 45/90 or 50/90.  but i seen the wild west guns in ak on tv they offer a 457magnum.  its a,45/70 loaded hotter i guess.  Gibbs did offer a 45/70 on a mauser receicer manys ago i remember seeing it.

I think Gibbs also offered a 45-70 on an enfield acton like a No 1 or a No 4. 
The 457 is a hot loaded 45-70 and will tear apart some actions like the trapdoor, the early 1895 marlins and the 1886 Winchesters as well as some other designs like the Remington Bolt action, or convertes Mauser 1871's

[ultramag44]

I also built one in the 70s.  I had ER Shaw alter a Siamese action and install his 26" barrel.  I stocked it in walnut from Bishops and installed a Beech front sight and some forgotten receiver sight.   

In the late 80's, I too had E.R. Shaw alter a Siamese action and install a 26" heavey varmint weight barrel. They also put a low, custom bolt handle on it, installed Weaver bases, iron sights, bead blast & blue.  I had another guy modify the safty to model 70 style.   I stocked it in a semi-inletted blank of walnut from Richards Microfit.  I inletted a military mauser recoil bolt, glass bedded the action and first inch of barrel channel.  I put a rubber pad on the end of the stock.  It's a tack driver w/ cast bullets!

[Hank08]

I built this one about 15 yrs. ago, 26" Apex barrel, Jaeger trigger, Lyman 48 long range rear sight, standard M98 stock of European walnut leaves the magazine box exposed a little.  Never had a failure to feed with anything, cast or jacketed, weights 8 lb. 1 oz. poor picture, excellent shooter.
 

[Frank46]

there was an article in either handloader or rifle magazine many years ago regarding the siamese mauser and getting it to feed the 45/70 cartridge. I seem to remember the trick was the feeding of the large rimmed case was in the area about 1" in front of the feed ramp. Going from memory here (crs also) was that the feed rails had to be opened up so the rim slid under the extractor just like regular rimless rounds. Don't remember the issue number. Frank