Shimming barrels

[Anonym]

Got a quick question.  Been trying to find barrels for my 1" Renegade and got to thinking about shimming up 15/16" barrels for it.  I was wondering if I had some small 1/16" thick strips of steel, bent to conform to the three bottom sides of the barrel, and placed one at the breech and one on either side of the wedge pin, would it act the same as a free-floated barrel and help improve accuracy?  Just curious because I always thought shimming wouldn't be a good thing to do and have been hunting out those 1" barrels for my Renegade.  If the theory is sound, it opens up a lot more options for me.

Thanks,
Anonym

[coyotejoe]

It might look a little funky but there is no reason it wouldn't work. Your shims would need to be 1/32" thick since you'd be putting them on both sides as well as the bottom. You could just epoxy the shims to the barrel with JB Weld after getting the metal perfectly clean of any oil or grease. As to how the breechplug would fit up to the tang, I really don't know.

[Trapper-Jack]

Would you want 1/32 in plaace of 1/16 thick material?  Two thicknessis of 1/32 (each side of barrel) would make up the missing 1/16".

[Trapper-Jack]

Sorry, coyotejoe beat me to it about the thickness.

[Anonym]

Yup, you guys are right.  1/32 is what would be needed.  Just forgot to divide by 2!  Shouldn't affect the breech to tang interface any as it would center the hook back up in the tang.

[Forestclimber]

The lug that holds the wedge might be a problem.  I think the barrel will have to rest on the bottom of the stock to fit properly.  Also, the tang may be a problem.
Not sure.  Just my 2 cents worth. Would glass bedding work?  It would be permanent though.

[Anonym]

Very true.  The bottom shim would put the underlug up too high to get the wedge key in.  Leaving it on the bottom of the channel might leave the breech/tang area a bit loose too.  Might just have to stick with those 1-inchers or eventually invest in a 15/16" stock.

[deadrabbit]

Yes, I would get a 15/16 stock too as you probably want one anyway!     Dont forget to get a Seneca too!

[necchi]

And the hammer alignment to the nipp would be off,,It takes a different stock.
If it was practical and usefull to use a 15/16 in a 1" stock there would be "kit's" and common knowledge for the application of said years ago. 
best advise I've seen listed is ,,get a hawkin stock. Bite the bullet, dip in the pocket,,,

[flintlock]

This came up over on HuntingNet a few days ago, those guys didn't do anything but put the 15/16 barrel in the 1 inch stock and shoot...This should let you see their opinions...

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/313028-1-vs-15-16-gm-barrels.html

[deadrabbit]

Thats a good read flintlock!  Thanks.  I have both so dont need to do it but I bet it might help a few on here.  I agree with what was said in it about how that extra pound of barrel makes them heavy.  I use a sling with my Renegade (for the walk back to the truck) and dont need it with my Hawken.

[necchi]

those guys didn't do anything but put the 15/16 barrel in the 1 inch stock and shoot...This should let you see their opinions...

ya, cheesh, and that's just what they are "opinions", and I'm sure that doing so resulted in a tremendous accuracy gain, with reliable ignition, a fit and balance that was never before felt ANY gun. Some guy's are very bias to there own wondefull ideas. That's why they do "double blind" tests on things. The results are different if someone is not trying to support their own objective.
semisane is a great guy, but sometimes he doesn't step back and really look at results. Months back he posted a group of targets all over the net to disprove "fliers" in roundball weights. Yet his composite target plainly showed several ball way out of the primary group, and then adamatley defended the "fact" he learned/proved that ball weight has nothing to do with accuracy and that those where just random misguided shot's from human error.

 If you wanna think about weight, Anonym was wanting a .32 for his Ren,,that is alot of weight even in the 15/16, try it, I know from having one that was soon sold.

[Anonym]

Yea, and I'm still looking at that while saving up money, but to be honest, I'm now considering a complete rifle due to the additional weight I'd have on that Renegade!  I still prefer a .36 cal.  Anybody know where I can get one?

[Semisane]

ya, cheesh, and that's just what they are "opinions", and I'm sure that doing so resulted in a tremendous accuracy gain, with reliable ignition, a fit and balance that was never before felt ANY gun. Some guy's are very bias to there own wondefull ideas. That's why they do "double blind" tests on things. The results are different if someone is not trying to support their own objective.
semisane is a great guy, but sometimes he doesn't step back and really look at results. Months back he posted a group of targets all over the net to disprove "fliers" in roundball weights. Yet his composite target plainly showed several ball way out of the primary group, and then adamatley defended the "fact" he learned/proved that ball weight has nothing to do with accuracy and that those where just random misguided shot's from human error.

Well, that's an interesting comment necchi.  I think you're wrong, but I love you anyway. 

As for my "adamant" defense of my "facts", what I said was "I do believe you can draw your own conclusions. As for me, I sure won't be wasting my time weighing balls".  (Well, I guess that is pretty adamant.  )

You might want to re-read the post and reconsider the various group sizes.  Here's the post - http://huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/293792-weighed-sorted-ball-experiment.html .

As far as the 15/16" barrel in the 1" channel, it fits pretty well and doesn't look bad at all.  Hammer alignment was not a problem for me.  I haven't shot it yet, but Sabotloader has shot his set up quite a bit with excellent results.  I think he's gotten rid of the 1" barrels on both of his Renegades in favor of the smaller/lighter ones.

[coyotejoe]

Well when someone says they've tried it and it works I wouldn't call them a liar if I've never even tried it!
 I have a Jack Garner 28 gauge smoothbore octagon to round barrel fitted to a T/C Penn hunter and a Track of the Wolf 20 gauge smoothbore on a T/C Renegade flint rifle. Both barrels were just blanks which didn't exactly fit the stock but I made them fit. The 28 gauge flint is especially nice, a 30" barrel jug choked to improved cylinder, 6 1/4 pounds that handles like a fine bird gun, which it is.

[necchi]

 I've been known to be wrong, I guess it just don't make alot of sence ta me to be messin with things that ain't broke,
but after near 25yrs of messin with bp guns, a good share of it spent scabing together pieces, refurbing olde tossed stuff from other's, my interest has swung to having a proper fitted rifle with a proper barrel. It's nice to have stuff like that, ya know? Things that were ment to go together, I'm not better than anyone I just have different goals now. It's like that old joke,,I'm tired of running down the hill to get one, I'd rather walk down and get'm all.
 I'm getting older, I'm not in a hurry anymore, i've found what works and what works kinda ok, and what doesn't. Through experiance. If you want too, get a smaller barrel and stick it in a bigger stock,,it'll shoot,,heck get some acraglas and bed it to the barrel and release it from the stock, all it would take is a little sahran wrap. In the end that's what you'll have. Gained experiance,  and that does have value.
 My advise is to simply get the right barrel for the right stock, or get the barrel and get the right stock for it,,that's my advise and it's worth everything you paid for it.

TY semisane, I love you too, peace friend.

[Semisane]

I've been known to be wrong,

Well, there you go necchi.   That's why we had a difference of opinion - I ain't ever been wrong.   

Peace.