federal premium 410 buckshot

[Mack in N.C.]

bought a box of 25 last night at wally world.............3 " 4 pellets of ooo buck......question:.this box is labeled "410 Handgun"........i looked in the 2009 federal ammo catalog and it says nothing about firing in shotguns........you would think it would say Handguns and shotgus but it just says handguns......fed ammo catalog says it was put out for the judge but has anyone any experiance with this paticular brand..........thanks mack.....i was going to try it out in a savage 410 bolt gun and my T/C contender........thanks

[Graybeard]

That's cuz it's about as useless as can be in a shotgun. What the heck ya gonna do with it? For that matter it's about useless in the Judge as well but at least since the sole reason for its existence is self defense at spitting distance it makes a little more sense there. I dunno what other than very close range self defense against humans you have planned for it but if it's for use on game I'd sure rethink that plan.

Not enough pellets for snakes even and not enought pellets or killing power for deer. Humans inside 10' is about all it's useful for and I'd much prefer a handgun shooting real handgun ammo to that.

[Mack in N.C.]

hello Gb......have 2 410's i mentioned that i and who knows 1 day I may run out of of all my 2/ 3/4 and 3 in buckshot for my 12's and 20's and be forced to use a 410............also my mom (74 years old) wants me to buy her a shotgun for personal protection........i dont think she can handle a 20 or 12..............i reckon an intruder shot with this load would  not stick around if not fatal...........mack

[Graybeard]

Prolly not, still I'd rather use #4 or maybe even #6 shot in the .410 for defense use myself. Up close they are plenty lethal enough and at longer range give a lot more chance of a hit that three pellets of buckshot.

[pastorp]

Not to argue, but for self defense I'd rather have a slug in a 410. You need 10-12" of penetration and nothing else will give it to you in a 410. And you better be close.  JMO

Regards,

[Graybeard]

While that's a number often tossed around have you ever stopped to ask where such penetration numbers come from? Have you ever measured the depth of your own chest or that of anyone else? If you were trying to reach the spine from the front then yeah 8" to maybe 10" on a really large heavy person might be required.

My personal view is that if as a CCW carrying civilian am in a gun battle with a bad guy for my life it's most likely gonna be face to face and at less than 7 yards. Otherwise is a court gonna really buy that it was self defense? Most folk's chest baring a large breasted woman as the bad guy will only require a couple inches of penetration to reach the heart/lungs. Shot sizes #4 and #6 both should easily reach that deep at that range. If a person's heart and/or lungs are shredded with either size shot they aren't gonna be a threat for long.

Now I'm NOT a proponent of the use of a .410 shotgun of any sort as a self defense weapon mine you but if that's all a person can handle it still would be better than tossing rocks. A 20 gauge with 7/8 oz or better yet an ounce or more or a 12 gauge with an ounce to an ounce and a quarter of #4 shot to me makes a whole lot more sense if the person can handle that recoil level. I am personally not concerned with 10" to 12" of penetration and in fact figure 12" is likely to get me into more trouble than it gets me out of when a bystander is shot with the excess penetration. On game I want an exit hole but in a self defense shooting of a human I think I'd rather the bullet stay inside and not exit.

[sachel.45]

they come from the fbi the 12" depth is for ballastic gel which equates to what is equal to the minium depth to get to the heart lung area of the human body as i undersand it

[pastorp]

Graybeard, have you noticed how fat the average american is?   And here in alaska we wear lots of heavy coats. I'll stick with slugs.

And I might add, that in a 410 a slug an't all that much. ( of course I don't use a 410 for defense but if I did it would be with slugs. 3" brennekies)

Regards,

[Graybeard]

FBI stats take into account shooting thru the arm into the chest from the side. something they might do but if you or I do it's gonna be mighty hard to justify in court. Yes I've noticed how fat we are but that's below the heart/lungs.

I'm not in Alaska heck here I seldom even wear a coat unless I go hunting. I'll only put on a sweatshirt most winter days if I go anywhere.

[pastorp]

I've done a few penetration tests over the years and once shot a 12pellet 12ga 00 buckshot into a clothes closet. Most made it trough the drywall, the ones that hit studs were stopped, a few made it about 6-8" into a down jacket hung sideways. The old leather riding jacket stopped them about as well. Not one made it through the closet.

Old car bodies are also and interesting target for penetration tests. Speed penetrates. With my 25/06 the 90gr bullet would shoot through a 1/2" steel plate at 50yds. But the 120gr load would not. Buckshot will not penetrate old car bodies but will some of the newer ones, however many times will still not make it into the car interior being stopped by insulation and interior pannels.

I'm a believer in slugs regardless of gauge. A friend was with a entry team at a drug dealers home a few years ago. As he entered the bedroom the perp sat up in bed with a handgun in his hand. A 12ga slug ended his evil ways rather dramaticaly. Yep if your shooting a shotgun for real don't fool around with shot use a slug.

Regards,

[Mack in N.C.]

i am goin to find me some of those brenneke slugs............cant decide whether to get my mom a gun or not..i dont want her blowing holes in the walls or worse but she doeshave  experiance with a single shot as she grew up in the country so i fiqured thats what i may get her.....i may buy a snake charmer or may get her my ole iver johnson 12 gauge with a savage four tenner tube but that tube cost more than most of my single shots now, and it may not eject shells good....i will test it..........evry time i see her she ask "where is my shotgun"

[plumberroy]

That stuff is great in my singleshots  At 30 steps it put all 4 pellets in the north end of a big  south bound possum and stopped him in his tracks. Birdshot would not haved stopped him at that range. it turns  a cheap light weight  rossi 410 into a very deadly critter killer for things like possum, coons, feral cats, foxes,even coyote at close range things that decide my  poultry flock is there personal pantry 

[zackyholdem]

3 000 buckshot pellets weigh 70gr a piece for a total payload of 210 grains
           at 25 yards 1100fps load generates around 190 ftlbs energy per pellet, 3x190= 570 total foot pounds energy

standard 1/4oz slug is 110 grains for a total payload of 110 grains
           at 25 yards 1775fps load generates around 567 ftlbs energy

so you can see that out of a shotgun barrel both .410 slugs and 000 buckshot generate the same amount of energy at 25 yards. i would much rather use buckshot at ranges less that 25 yards on small game than slugs due to the reduced risk of deflection and over penetration

Also i called federal and asked them and the .410 handgun load will work fine in long guns, and i have shot the 000 in a long gun with success.

Thanks Zack