Author Topic: 270 accuarcy problems (Read 1718 times)

greengiant23 · « **on:** December 21, 2009, 03:02:10 AM »

I am new to the forum. I just bought my first handi rifle 270/20g combo. Mounted a zeiss 2.5-8 and took it to the range yesterday. I am hugely dissapointed. I read the the faqs and handi rifles basics. I shot 3 different brands winchester, hornady, federal premium, all 150grain softpoint. Seems like most my shots were lucky to hit a 6" group. Most fell 6-8 group. I tried to keep the barrel cool. Never fired no more than 2 shots in a 15 min period. Total I fired prob around 20 rounds. Yes, the gun does have a heavy trigger but I do not feel that was my problem. Any suggestions? Maybe 130grain ammo. I read some stuff about people modifying the foregrip.

Cottonwood · « **Reply #1 on:** December 21, 2009, 04:26:34 AM »

What other factors did you have while shooting at the range? Did you have your handi rested properly or shooting un supported off hand? I use a Caldwell Lead Sled for all my sight in of any rifle that I am sighting in because I want to eliminate all human factors. The only thing I don't have is a hydrolic trigger, so there is one point of human contact with the rifle.

Did you double check your screws on the scope rail to receiver etc.

Just curious, as I have yet to find a bad shooting H&R that I have owned previously of owning 6 before and of those were 4 Buffalo Classic 45-70's and one Handi Rifle in 45-70 along with a .35 Whelen as well. I currently own just two now, of which one has an additional barrel for that are dead bang accurate as well.

Did you polish the barrel out of your .270 prior to shooting it with JB bore compound, or are you in the first phaze of just shooting your first 100 rounds thru it?

greengiant23 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 21, 2009, 04:55:30 AM »

I was shooting off of caldwell dead shot bags front & rear. About 110 yards. Factory base removed then loctite & torqued. Burris signature zee rings, loctite & torqued.

I havent polished the bore, dont know how to do it or anything about it, just heard of people doing it.

I expected better. I figured it would do prob 2-3. I wasnt expecting a one moa rifle. I just need a small light gun for deer hunting in the woods. 2moa would be plenty for a clean kill.

It was about 30 degrees out. Little to no wind. Didnt clean or anything between shots, just let it cool.

rickt300 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 21, 2009, 05:26:35 AM »

My rifles all shoot pretty good but I have floated the forearms and made sure the spacer doesn;t put any pressure against the frame. I did a trigger job on my most used frame and it made a world of difference. Does the barrel lock up tight without the forearm on?

greengiant23 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 21, 2009, 05:31:43 AM »

I havent removed the forearm and shot it or tinkered. I bought the gun. cleaned it. Mounted optics. went to the range.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** December 21, 2009, 05:37:48 AM »

Welcome! First guess would be oil on the latch/shelf, clean and dry it, shoot it without the forend, that would be where to start IMO. Until you get the forend fitted well or bedded, shoot with the front rest just in front of the trigger guard as stated in the basics.

Tim

PartsMan · « **Reply #6 on:** December 21, 2009, 05:47:35 AM »

Don't give up on it. Try some 130s. Make sure the latch is dry and latched good.
Be very consistent with your rest and HOLD.
Another thing. Don't rule out the first load shot. Your barrel is not broke in yet.

greengiant23 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 21, 2009, 05:51:18 AM »

Thanks, I will remove the forend and try it. Also gonna try some 130s first. If the forend is causing the problems, how do I rememdy that?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** December 21, 2009, 05:55:25 AM »

FAQs.

Tim

mrgd · « **Reply #9 on:** December 21, 2009, 05:55:42 AM »

The rubber oring fix was all it took to tighten my 243 up.

greengiant23 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 21, 2009, 06:33:52 AM »

Quote from: mrgd on December 21, 2009, 05:55:42 AM

The rubber oring fix was all it took to tighten my 243 up.

Was your 243 having accuracy as far off as mine?

PartsMan · « **Reply #11 on:** December 21, 2009, 07:37:52 AM »

I just reread your original post and I think I found the problem.

That cheap scope.

Most guys here recommend at least a Banner.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #12 on:** December 21, 2009, 07:50:55 AM »

Quote from: greengiant23 on December 21, 2009, 03:02:10 AM

I am new to the forum. I just bought my first handi rifle 270/20g combo. Mounted a zeiss 2.5-8 and took it to the range yesterday. I am hugely dissapointed. I read the the faqs and handi rifles basics. I shot 3 different brands winchester, hornady, federal premium, all 150grain softpoint. Seems like most my shots were lucky to hit a 6" group. Most fell 6-8 group. I tried to keep the barrel cool. Never fired no more than 2 shots in a 15 min period. Total I fired prob around 20 rounds. Yes, the gun does have a heavy trigger but I do not feel that was my problem. Any suggestions? Maybe 130grain ammo. I read some stuff about people modifying the foregrip.

I have a closet queen 270 that I may can fix but is acting the same way yours is. It just wont group for nuttin! Now i have killed several deer and axis deer with it but it was meant to be for long shots out to 400 yards. Well that aint gonna happen, not even tried, until something changes. the closet is the place for rifles that dont shoot any better than that! Now i have a 223 that shoots lights out and is rewarded for doing so but the 270 and 243 will rarely see the light of day!

greengiant23 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2009, 08:48:10 AM »

Well I dont need a long range deer rifle. I might eventually buy one. But for now I just want a rifle that will group at least 3" or less. prefer 2" but one that will do 3" I would be ok on take a shot on a deer. I dont want to risk wounding one. Hopefully I can get it down to that.

greengiant23 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 22, 2009, 12:43:11 AM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on December 21, 2009, 07:50:55 AM

Quote from: greengiant23 on December 21, 2009, 03:02:10 AM
I am new to the forum. I just bought my first handi rifle 270/20g combo. Mounted a zeiss 2.5-8 and took it to the range yesterday. I am hugely dissapointed. I read the the faqs and handi rifles basics. I shot 3 different brands winchester, hornady, federal premium, all 150grain softpoint. Seems like most my shots were lucky to hit a 6" group. Most fell 6-8 group. I tried to keep the barrel cool. Never fired no more than 2 shots in a 15 min period. Total I fired prob around 20 rounds. Yes, the gun does have a heavy trigger but I do not feel that was my problem. Any suggestions? Maybe 130grain ammo. I read some stuff about people modifying the foregrip.

I have a closet queen 270 that I may can fix but is acting the same way yours is. It just wont group for nuttin! Now i have killed several deer and axis deer with it but it was meant to be for long shots out to 400 yards. Well that aint gonna happen, not even tried, until something changes. the closet is the place for rifles that dont shoot any better than that! Now i have a 223 that shoots lights out and is rewarded for doing so but the 270 and 243 will rarely see the light of day!

Did you try the Oring thing or floating the forend?

Oldshooter · « **Reply #15 on:** December 22, 2009, 05:01:12 AM »

Did the O ring thing. Polished the bore and checked the latch. have not bedded the foreend, and probably not shot it enough but there are so many guns and so little time

Like me its is a work in progress! Mostly wanted to let you know that they all do not shoot moa outa the box, some do. I'm 1 for three now, its kinda like my golf game just enough good shots to keep me coming back.

greengiant23 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 22, 2009, 06:35:16 AM »

Well I knew when i bought the gun I wasnt getting an moa rifle. I just need something that shot less than 3moa. prefer 2moa. Hunting around here is in the woods and short shots. Im hoping the o-ring will bring it in enough I can take it hunting. I dunno when I will get to take it to shoot again. Hopefully before the end of the month. Id prefer sooner.

greengiant23 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 22, 2009, 07:41:57 AM »

Well I also just called the local gunsmith and asked him he could do a trigger job on my 270. When I told him it was handi rifle and he just laughed and said no. So I guess if I want that I will have to contact H&R.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** December 22, 2009, 07:58:12 AM »

There are a couple trigger job instructions in the FAQs, many, many first timers here have done their own, any gunsmith that laughs at doing a trigger job on a Handi is very ignorant and wouldn't get my business.

Tim

greengiant23 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 22, 2009, 08:33:39 AM »

Yea, I have never used him, but he wont get my business. He laughed and said "does that count as a rifle" then said no he wouldnt. Very rude. But my focus for now is getting my gun accurate enough to hunt with.

greengiant23 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 23, 2009, 01:09:11 AM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on December 22, 2009, 05:01:12 AM

Did the O ring thing. Polished the bore and checked the latch. have not bedded the foreend, and probably not shot it enough but there are so many guns and so little time Like me its is a work in progress! Mostly wanted to let you know that they all do not shoot moa outa the box, some do. I'm 1 for three now, its kinda like my golf game just enough good shots to keep me coming back.

What kinda groups are u getting out of it after all that?

cwlongshot · « **Reply #21 on:** December 23, 2009, 02:26:22 AM »

Having just read thru this post, I see you have the basics and seem to have checked most of them.

First off, 6" is NOT the norm. Like a couple guys here I have many many handis and NONE OF THEM is that bad!! SOME started close thou!! LOL Even my 500 that like to throw flyer's keeps its shots with in 3-4" at 100.

OK, you have a good mount that has been checked, same for the rings. That's a good name brand scope, but was it new to you? One thing many people just assume is that something new must be OK. Even with the top shelf stuff, things happen occasionally. Has it been on a different firearm that DID shot well?

How the rifle shot is huge with a handi. As mentioned the front rest should be as close to the hinge as possible and the trigger pull consistent and fully to the rear. Then just closing the action needs to be consistent and firm. As Tim mentioned, check and clean the latch and barrel shelf. Maybe even check the engagement as even doing all I just suggested, if that engagement is not even. Say only touching on one side, it cannot possible latch the same everytime. this will most definitely cause errant shots and loose groups. Check and adjust the forend, a "O"O ring or nylon.poly washer is a quick and easy way to float the forend. Also make sure that that forend is not too tite. This is a subjective thing but it shouldn't be stiff removing or installing. But shouldn't just fall off/on either.

Polishing the bore is way down i the list of accuracy alterations for me. Yes it will effect things, but generally this is more of a fine tuning alteration.

All this is outlined in depth in the FAQ's.

Good luck and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

CW

greengiant23 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 23, 2009, 03:12:32 AM »

The scope is new, never been used until this past weekend.

Thanks for the help. I am gonna put the o ring on there and mess around with it a while. Hopefully go shoot it soon. I really hope it helps, cause I really dont want to have to send the rifle to H&R.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #23 on:** December 23, 2009, 05:19:49 AM »

Quote from: greengiant23 on December 23, 2009, 01:09:11 AM

Quote from: Oldshooter on December 22, 2009, 05:01:12 AM
Did the O ring thing. Polished the bore and checked the latch. have not bedded the foreend, and probably not shot it enough but there are so many guns and so little time Like me its is a work in progress! Mostly wanted to let you know that they all do not shoot moa outa the box, some do. I'm 1 for three now, its kinda like my golf game just enough good shots to keep me coming back.

What kinda groups are u getting out of it after all that?

It will shoot 2 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards, with some ammo a liitle better, but it may never be a 400 yard gun and thats what I wanted, so I'd rather shoot my 35 rem lever gun and save shoulder and money and keep looking for a long distance rifle.

greengiant23 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 23, 2009, 05:31:04 AM »

Well I was looking it over last night. I also have a H&r parnder 20g shotgun that i purchased before i bought this one. I compared how they fit. The shotgun a more solid feel to it. The breakdown lever is stiffer. And when u open it it will break then you have to use ur hand to open it fully and it requires more force to close it. The 270 is more.. loose. The breakdown lever. has alot of slack. You can flop it around freely. If you were to hold the gun straight out and press the breakdown lever. It very easliy opens up all the way. You could open it and close it without ever having to touch the barrel or forend. When the guns is closed it feels solid. Nothing seems to be loseother than the breakdown lever being floppy. Could this affect the accuracy in anyway?

Swift One · « **Reply #25 on:** December 23, 2009, 05:47:16 AM »

I would definaltey try some 130s. It may be as simple as your barrel not liking the 150s. Doesn't sound like a scope or mounting issue. Also as stated before, the handi ridfle starts to tighten up aafter the first 100 rds. That being said though, 6-8" is a bit much.

the_spotdoctor · « **Reply #26 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:11:07 AM »

I will probably be crucified for my opinion, but here goes. I have owned several Handi rifles, 2 in 243 , 1 in 308 and 1 in 30-06. They were all problems of one sort or another. I no longer own any. Best thing I ever did, getting rid of them. But, there is one bright spot to this story, I bought my daughter a 243 bull barrell when they first came out. I did all the tweaking and little have tos to make it shoot. It will shoot an inch group, with handloads I do. 100 gr corelokts with 42 grains of IMR 4350 with federal lr primers. She has killed several deer with it, I don't think you should have to go to all the trouble involved to get one to shoot a 1-2 inch group. For the money , I think a savage or one of the new Marlin centerfire rifles is the way to go, but to each his own.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #27 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:51:24 AM »

Quote from: the_spotdoctor link=topic=192795.msg 1098974870#msg 1098974870 date=1261595467

I will probably be crucified for my opinion, but here goes. I have owned several Handi rifles, 2 in 243 , 1 in 308 and 1 in 30-06. They were all problems of one sort or another. I no longer own any. Best thing I ever did, getting rid of them. But, there is one bright spot to this story, I bought my daughter a 243 bull barrel when they first came out. I did all the tweaking and little have tos to make it shoot. It will shoot an inch group, with hand loads I do. 100 gr core lokts with 42 grains of IMR 4350 with federal lr primers. She has killed several deer with it, I don't think you should have to go to all the trouble involved to get one to shoot a 1-2 inch group. For the money , I think a savage or one of the new Marlin center fire rifles is the way to go, but to each his own.

Crucified is a bit strong.. But like you said to each his own and your spot on correct!
Many guys say its my hard earned money and what I buy should work and to a extent I completely agree. But like I said before, I know forearms and I like tinkering with them. I know the Hand Is short comings and am willing to work within them. I feel that the effort isn't to much and the work is fun, I know when it's done I have accomplished something. I made this thing work and work well. For a guy that doesn't have the time, patience or ware-with all to do the same, spending more dollars to get something he doesn't have to tinker with is fine. This is what makes the world go round and more power to it!! Thanks for the opinion form the "other side"!!

Merry Christmas,
CW

greengiant23 · « **Reply #28 on:** December 23, 2009, 09:14:27 AM »

I feel that way. If it something simple to correct thats fine. O-ring simple, trying 130 grain simple(expensive). If those dont bring it down to a decent group. I will send it to H&R or try to get rid of it.

PartsMan · « **Reply #29 on:** December 23, 2009, 11:06:07 AM »

Don't give up to quickly.
My worst barrel was a 7mm-08. It settled down to 2-2.5" groups after it was broke in.
It was minute of pie plate to start with.

I shot everything I could find for it and then sent it back to the factory.
They shipped it back with a nice group on a target. They had used the first ammo I tried.