..as the church goes.... so go we

[Redtail1949]

Pressure Mounts After Episcopal Church Elects Second Gay Bishop.....

[powderman]

Sickening. Homosexuals should never, EVER, be allowed to lead a church. Even the Lutherans have now approved deviate clergy. Churches doing this have left God and serve satan instead. POWDERMAN. 

[Swampman]

I left the church to follow Jesus Christ when he left the church.

[ironglow]

  It is strange what different people call "the church"..

  IMO..itr is not a recognizable building or buildings or a man made organization with it's own hierarchy nor a social club. Swampy came close when he said he left the church when Jesus left.
  Curiously, THE CHURCH.. (the one Jesus established) has left most "churches"! The church is "the family of God" and Jesus explained  who this should include...
  "For whoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother,and sister, and mother.  (Matt 12:50)
  The same message was reiterated in...  (Mark 3:35)

   Some things which some "church" buildings and organizations do..consist more of spitting in God's face.

[45-70.gov]

and  the  gay churches  ministers  ....and  mosque [muslims]


WILL  KEEP  THEIR  TAX  EXEMPT  STATUS

THEY  WILL  LIVE  OFF THE HANDOUTS  OF  OTHERS

AND  NOT  PRODUCE  ONE  THING


if  a gay  minester  offers  to  shake  your  hand

do   you ..................  do  you  hold  hands with  him??

[ironglow]

Don't deal with those kind...but if somebody is in peril of having to do so, they might do well to carry a small bottle of Purell in their pocket.

[powderman]

IG. Germex for me. POWDERMAN. 

[Squib]

I've always been fond of getting bleach or lysol out from under a sink and purifying my hands after touching anything nasty


that being said, you don't know that the straight guys you shake hands with wash their hands after pooping, hey they might not need to because they don't wipe.  I'm not saying to trust homo-hands, but watch out for people in general.  I'm a former catholic and we all know about that church.... the ministers are supposed to be celibate if above deacon I believe, but that doesn't stop a few boys from getting spooned

[slim rem 7]

 the homo has a problem ..long as he don t touch any children ..he can live an sort it out with his maker mabe later.. being raised around animals all my life ,,i know its rooted in his up bringing an lack of success
with the natural course of things ..women..with humans that not the full explanation as its seeded way back in thier raisen somewhere..my sister kept foster kids ..i got to here thier stories..some ofum were already messed up bad at 6-7 years old..i had one to offer to do me a favor ..because he thought thats what men wanted from him..i was just totally amazed..but if they are messed up young i pray gods mercy an understanding forem..its un natural but at least understandable under those circumstances..
 i was just a youngun when a little neighbor girl,, just plain ask me to go to the barn with her..
 she told me some some cousines [one over 12 year old] had got her started..so childhood indoctrination plays the big part..i had literal night mares after that an wouldn t speak to the little girl..she had us married an living in the old wallace house..most country boys of my youth ,had experiences like that..what if my first experience had been with an older boy..remember sodum an gammora.. spelling wrong but many know the story..
 later as i hitch hiked all over the country ..about a third of the rides were messed up men..
 my mamas prayers were with me though .. i once had to tell a big ole fella he was gonna play hell getting what he wanted..he just stopped the car an let me out.. again my mamas prayers..
 im sorry forem .. but they gonna have to find god an aknowledge that is abominable..
 i pray to the benevolent loving father that he can reach them..i still know its an sickness of the mind.. slim
   this is world of pleasure any way people can find it.. again a fearful time ,,if a man read his bible..
 good standards are a thing of the past in america by i hope not the majority..
 remember sodum an gommori.. excuse my spelling ..but some of you know the story
 

[Squib]

sodom and gomorrah... god called in a meteorite shower to destroy the two neighboring towns after several warnings to stop the carnal atrocities going on there.  that's what I remember, anyone care to elaborate?

[Graybeard]

This one is getting VERY CLOSE to crossing the line. Remember the site rules or it goes to the trash can.

[Squib]

will do... that's why I'm trying to pull it back to religion and not homosexuality

[powderman]

Our retired pastor died Saturday, he preached on this subject more than once. Brother Allen was a VN vet, wounded several times and was not expected to live, but he did. His hands shook real bad, something to do with his wounds. He was hospitolized a year or so ago for some time. He got out on a Sat and got up to the pulpit Sun morning. He was barely able to walk and still had the hospitol band on his arm. Neither he nor our other pastor ever planned a sermon, they let God do the talking. He his voice was weak as he said, not sure why God told me to get up here this morning, when he tells me, I'll let ya know. After a few minutes he started preaching, voice strong, no shaking, no weakness at all. I'd never seen such a total transformation when God took over, a real blessing for sure. Both our regular pastor and Bro Allen preached the truth, not many churches do that anymore. Say a prayer for his family.
SLIM, good post as always. POWDERMAN. 

[SHOOTALL]

Some things should be voted on by the entire church , if not by show of hands then by sound of feet leaving . A leader of a church should live as the Bible tells us to live . He should try to be a good example not a poster boy for deviant behavior . Please note leader not member for where else would some learn what is expected of them ?

[Questor]

I really do not see why gays in clergy are a problem. We are all sinners, and if this is a sin, then it's just one of many sins that we are all collectively guilty of. I just see it as an ancient condition that should not be condemned, but rather tolerated. 

Perhaps, in this day when living memory recalls that homosexuality was a crime, we are not ready to accept and tolerate this condition in clergy.

Sorry if this offends you. I realize it's an important issue to many. That's just the way I see it.

[SHOOTALL]

Would you feel the same if the guy cheated on his wife ? molested children ? , robbed ? or disobeyed one of the other laws set forth in the Bible ?
 It does not offend me the way you feel nor does it offend me someone is homosexual . But if we make exception for breaking one law we should throw caution to the wind and break all laws RIGHT ? or are we just picking and choosing in an effort to be PC ?

[Squib]

tough question... especially with sex.  we're all programmed for it, we all need it.  in a sense we're all hypocrits, NO ONE thinks about the crucifix while doing the deed, only the carnal pleasure of the act.  the line is drawn at what is too carnal/strange/weird/gross, and that's just a matter of opinion.  personally I don't like homosexuality, but I don't like obesity or bad teeth either- so if someone has sex with another that has bad teeth or lots of fat I am gonna be grossed out by that too.  I can't say I'd treat the person like a leper though.  expect all people to be less than they appear, only hang out with people you really get some joy from talking to and interacting with.  avoid all others and don't dig to deep or you're gonna find out stuff you do not want to know.  that's straight pastors too.

sorry if I offended anyone with weight/dental or sexuality issues (pc)

[Dixie Dude]

The sin of Sodom was "idleness of time and fullness of bread".  This lead to the diviate sex.  There are degrees of sin such as murder vs gulttony.  Some hurt others, while some only hurt yourself.  Gayness hurts others as well as adultry, murder, or stealing.  Gluttony, drugs, alcohol abuse hurt yourself, but can also hurt others.  America is wealthy, and most work 40 hours or less a week, so we have a lot of idle time on our hands.  Either waste it on TV, or be productive (reloading, hunting, fishing, gardening) or sin (wild parties, drugs, drinking, carousing around, or diviate sex).   

[powderman]

questor. There are numerous Bible references concerning these deviates. Any so called church that tolerates or promotes these deviates is not a Christian church, nor are the people who go there. Churces should help sinners, not encourage their immorality. POWDERMAN. 

[Squib]

powderman that goes back to interpretation, we're all perverts, we're all liars, lots of us steal and commit acts of violence too... the question is where to draw the line.  I think that most of the stuff goes under the radar... however if someone "comes out" then it shouldn't be well-recieved either.  I am pretty sure that a pastor that cheated on his wife or broke a vow of celibacy would be thrown out, so why not a gay man?  like the military- if they claim it, they walk.  if they don't want to walk- they need to keep those issues to themselves.  if they don't like the anti-gay attitude, they can go preach somewhere else.

it's a problem of tradition versus reconciliation.

[billy_56081]

It was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.

The Lutheren Church is also fighting over this same issue right now. We even have a member who is a member of the Minnesota house of misRepresentatives who has a queer daughter who is supporting queer pastors and marrage. He claims to be a conservative, I'll make sure everyone in New Ulm, knows his "conservative" veiws next election. 

[teamnelson]

powderman that goes back to interpretation, we're all perverts, we're all liars, lots of us steal and commit acts of violence too... the question is where to draw the line.  I think that most of the stuff goes under the radar... however if someone "comes out" then it shouldn't be well-recieved either.  I am pretty sure that a pastor that cheated on his wife or broke a vow of celibacy would be thrown out, so why not a gay man?  like the military- if they claim it, they walk.  if they don't want to walk- they need to keep those issues to themselves.  if they don't like the anti-gay attitude, they can go preach somewhere else.

it's a problem of tradition versus reconciliation.

Squib is on to it ... the qualifications of elders is very specific in scripture. Those who do not meet it, should never be ordained. Those who fail to keep it, should be removed from office, and if repentant, reconciled into the body but not into the leadership. There are consequences to all sins, and for a pastor that means never pastoring again (remember Moses?). But those qualifications are larger than simply homosexuality, and include being a one-woman man, having control of one's own house, blameless testimony outside of the church ... as well as a model of normal Christian living. Small example: I can't afford medical insurance through my denominations self-insured plan for pastors, the premiums are too high. Why? Because the average participant is obese, diabetic, a heart disease risk. We have accepted the sin of gluttony so long we don't trust skinny pastors.

To the OP, I believe what has happened is that the church has accepted the "lesser sins" in their pastors for so long that logic like Questor's leads them to conclude that the "greater sins" should receive the same pass. I believe this is simple pragmatism, people drop their standards when they don't trust God to provide the right man, so they take the first willing man (or woman) that comes along. I understand the logic, but it stands sharply against scripture. The standards for the office of pastor are high, but remember its for the office, not for salvation. The standards for salvation (i.e. becoming a part of the body of Christ) are the same for all, regardless of office.

[Dixie Dude]

TeamNelson, you are right on the money.  We have accepted the lessor sins, like gluttony.  People don't fast anymore.  Gluttony lead to diabetes, heart attacks, strokes, etc.  But, churches do like to eat, and there should be a time of feasting and fellowship, but not everyday. 

[45-70.gov]

and  the  gay churches  ministers  ....and  mosque [muslims]


WILL  KEEP  THEIR  TAX  EXEMPT  STATUS

THEY  WILL  LIVE  OFF THE HANDOUTS  OF  OTHERS

AND  NOT  PRODUCE  ONE  THING


if  a gay  minester  offers  to  shake  your  hand

do   you ..................  do  you  hold  hands with  him??

i  was amused  about  the  hand  sanitizer  and  the thoughts  of where his  hands may have  been

BUT  THAT  WAS  NOT WHAT  I  MEANT


would  you  just walk  awy  if  he held  his hand out  to shake  yours?

would  you  show  that much  direspect  to a man  that devotes  his  life to  a chuch??


i  preist  once  lit  a cigerette  in  my  moms  house  [she  can't stand  smoke]

i  anounced  either  he  leaves  or  i leave

every  one  looked  shocked  and  did  nothing
i  walked  out

my mother  wouldn't  stand  up to  this  disrespectfull  man

[SHOOTALL]

why should a man doing a certian job have respect if others doing the same deivate behavior don't ?

[Swampman]

1 Timothy 3:2 King James Bible

"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"

Neither a gay man nor a woman can be a Deacon or a Bishop.

[SHOOTALL]

yep !

[Dixie Dude]

Amen to the above.  I know it is hard to find one these days who meets the Biblical criteria.  I don't think it means one wife at a time either.  There in my opinion are only two reasons for divorce even, adultry, and if one is married to an unbeliever and they depart.  

[teamnelson]

Its been my opportunity to follow into the pulpit previous pastors who never had met the qualifications, much less maintained them, while in the office. The obvious ones leave it in a shambles, which takes a lot of work to restore, but the least obvious ones leave it ungrounded ... a house built on sand. That is far more difficult to restore primarily because the church does not see its own condition as a whole.

I took a bivocational senior pastor position (read: unpaid one-man show) at a small church in a ranching community. Previous guy took it from over 100, which is significant in a small town, to 4. He had done that at a series of churches prior to coming to that one, and no one checked. "He seemed like such a nice guy, loved Jesus ..." His kids sold meth out of the parsonage, at least that's what the police report said.

Hold the standards high; don't settle. God has a man ready if the church is willing to do things His way.

[ironglow]

  Liberals (politically or theologically) should remember that neither the Constitution nor the Bible arte "living, breathing documents" !

  Of course what the liberals mean by "living, breathing", is that they want to read it their own way..choosing what they will or will not accept.
   God did not give us Biblical doctrines as "multiple choice".