Author Topic: Recoil Question (Read 1936 times)

dross80 · « **on:** December 03, 2009, 09:44:47 AM »

I've read the recoil tables, my question is more subjective.

How is the recoil in a handi for the some of the stiffer choices, like 30 06 and 45-70?

How about the 12 gauge single shots?

I guess I'm asking for a comparison to a regular bolt gun, or a auto shotgun.

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 03, 2009, 09:48:41 AM »

I thought recoil didn't bother me until the day I fired my 12 gauge Tracker 11 handi using a sabot slug.

I didn't care to shoot it more than necessary to get it sighted in. It was "brutal" so I traded it for a 20 guage and added some weight to the stock, and it's a kitten now!

Mac11700 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 03, 2009, 09:58:41 AM »

Quote from: dross80 on December 03, 2009, 09:44:47 AM

I've read the recoil tables, my question is more subjective.

How is the recoil in a handi for the some of the stiffer choices, like 30 06 and 45-70?

How about the 12 gauge single shots?

I guess I'm asking for a comparison to a regular bolt gun, or a auto shotgun.

Most definatly kicks more than an modern auto shot gun..and bolt gun..but..some like myself have a higher tolarance to recoil than others do..Your the only one that will be able to gauge how it feels to you I'm afraid..Steps can be taken to minimize the recoil and percieved recoil..and are covered in the FAQ's..

Mac

gstewart44 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 03, 2009, 10:01:11 AM »

My 45-70 doesn't bother me ....it is stout with heavier loads but easily managed with a limbsaver on it.

That being said I have a limbsaver on my 12 g Pardner Turkey shotgun, and when I touch off a 2 oz load of #6's it generates about 100 lbs of recoil into my shoulder. (my 45-70 generates up to 25 lbs of recoil depending on the load)

I am good for one shot from that turkey gun, and I have made a small rocking platform that attaches to my turkey seat....the recoil pushes me back like a howitzer carriage.

spikehorn · « **Reply #4 on:** December 03, 2009, 10:15:07 AM »

I have a 308 ultra varmint with a camo composit stock and felt recoil seems less than my Stevens 200 bolt action in 308. I have done nothing to either gun to reduce recoil. on the other hand I had a rossi 308 and it was one of the most brutal guns that I have ever had as far as recoil. One of those things that make me go hmm.

MS Mule · « **Reply #5 on:** December 04, 2009, 03:08:22 AM »

I started out with a synthetic 45/70. Heavy handloads can hurt. Mine likes a manageable load of IMR 4198 with a Hornady 300gr. Interlock mzl. vel 2050fps. I sent the recceiver back to be fitted for a 30/06 barrel and had their excellent laminated stock and forearm added while there. I don't know if it's the weight or design of the stock, but, the rifle is appreciably more comfortable to shoot heavy loads with the laminated stock installed. Max. loads with 165 gr. bullets in the 30/06 are quite manageable.

Squib · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2009, 03:50:15 AM »

I was just sighting in my synthetic stocked 45-70, not horrible for a seven pound gun

I am used to shooting a scoped bull barrel model 700 vtr chambered in 308, so a lighter gun shooting 45-70 is noticeable but not brutal. my shoulder is sore as if I worked out but not terribly so, it feels like I worked out but only that spot. be aware that I am a recoil sensitive sissy so you can probably handle it better than me. however, I was using factory winchester super x... I'm not even going to try handloading it until I get the stock weighted with shot inside, and a new recoil pad on it

Sourdough · « **Reply #7 on:** December 04, 2009, 05:50:16 AM »

For a light weight single shot, I don't think my Handi 30-06 kicks much at all. Nor does my .35 Whelen. I've got bolt guns shooting the same bullets at the same velocities that kick twice as hard.

Squib · « **Reply #8 on:** December 04, 2009, 07:59:10 AM »

I just got done stuffing my stock about an hour ago, and putting a limbsaver on it a few minutes ago.... I plan on shooting tomorrow so I'll update you on how well all that actually helps out. later

petemi · « **Reply #9 on:** December 04, 2009, 08:47:31 AM »

I've got a 50 year old Marlin .30-30 336T levergun (Straight stock) that kicks harder (to me) than my Handi .45-70. I think it's the straight and narrow stock. Muzzle blast should be about the same distance from your face, so I don't think it's that. It's a rifle I really don't enjoy shooting. The Handi .45-70 shooting Hornady LEs comes back on ya a bit, but it is manageable even for a little skimpy dude like me. Of course, around here, we never get to shoot in a tee shirt.

......unless you belong to the Polar Bear Club.

Pete

Sourdough · « **Reply #10 on:** December 04, 2009, 08:48:34 AM »

Squib: If you are going to have the little lady shoot at least start her with the mild 45-70 loads. but before ever handing her a Handi, get a youth stock for her. She is too small for a regular stock. If the stock is too long it will kick the daylights out of her and cause her to not like shooting at all.

Seen it too many times, guy takes his gun, hands it to the little lady, she shoots it, gets the snot kicked out of her. She hands it back and never shoots a gun again. Fastest way to lose a future hunting partner.

TxGun · « **Reply #11 on:** December 04, 2009, 10:48:22 AM »

While you may notice some of the stouter recoiling calibers and gauges while shooting off a bench or burning through a lot of rounds at a range, you'll rarely even notice it when hunting. IMO, recoil tolerance is as much about mind-set as it is about physical endurance. Some people are scared of certain calibers/gauges before they even experience them. Unless you are particularly small-statured, or have some existing disability/injury, most common firearms aren't at all difficult to learn to handle if approached properly. I know a couple of averaged-sized women who have been to Africa on hunts and they handle .300 Win. mags and .375 H&H mags just fine. They can shoot very well. They were taught properly in the beginning, knew what to expect, and soon found that the recoil wasn't actually going to 'hurt' them.

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 04, 2009, 10:54:59 AM »

I'm a huge recoil wimp and I found that the recoil on my friend's 30-06 Handi with synthetic stocks was pretty tolerable. I had a 12 Gauge Pardner Turkey a few years ago that had the most ridiculous recoil I've ever felt with the 3 1/2" turkey loads. I sold it and got a 20 gauge Pardner which is easier to handle.

wreckhog · « **Reply #13 on:** December 04, 2009, 11:26:24 AM »

Recoil ain't recoil. It is a lot of stuff, the way the load kicks, the trigger guard cuts, the sling swivel digs, the comb hits your chin, and especially the muzzle blast. Key is to desensitize yourself totally at first and ramp up as you can. Gloves, double ear protection, neoprene taped to the stock, and a PAST pad matter as much as load choice.

petemi · « **Reply #14 on:** December 04, 2009, 12:01:59 PM »

Tx andf Wreck, I gotta agree. I think 75% of recoil is in your head.

Pete

zackyholdem · « **Reply #15 on:** December 04, 2009, 05:46:34 PM »

i do a fair amount of deer hunting with a tracker II 12 gauge and remington buckhammer 2 3/4in 1.25 oz slugs and the amount of felt recoil is off the bench is insane but recoil in the field is unnoticeable, i would compare the recoil of my handi 30-06 to the recoil of my pardner .410 so its very pleasant.

i agree that it isn't the recoil to the shoulder that is unpleasant, it is your face smashing the stock and your ears ringing thats what makes "recoil" untolerable

Squib · « **Reply #16 on:** December 04, 2009, 07:38:51 PM »

sourdough I'm not gonna give her level2/3 loads at first!

she's handled 12ga and didn't like it so I won't give her that level of pain again- she'll get the weighted set-up with soft-loads when I get started casting my own bullets. as for length of pull I don't know, she's tiny AND has short arms (proportional to her size) so we'll see tomorrow....

as for hunting situations... first deer I shot with my vtr I was hanging out of a tree and firing that rifle with one hand on the grip and trigger, the other hand was grasping the sling just below the forward swivel (elbow was hooked through some treestand camo net so I wouldn't fall out of the stand) and I was leaning almost completely out of the stand.... if I got hit in the face by the scope I sure didn't feel it, didn't see the muzzle flash from my muzzle brake, and saw everything that deer did while having his death fit in slow-motion.... thing is it was first light and very dark, I could barely even see it through the scope but when it went down I saw EVERYTHING crisp and clear, heard every sound, felt the wind like a barn-rooster (whatever it's called), felt the temp, atmospheric pressure, humidity, all of it at once and clearly- you feel everything in a collective and disassociative sense that'll totally numb you to pain or pleasure, you'll just FEEL. forget tantra, yoga and LSD if you're really desperate..... just go hunting and take a hard shot.. I bet the adrenaline would have you feeling so pumped you could be on the other end of the gun and not feel that either.

on the flip side, you do need to shoot with that same kind of focus when sighting in and when hunting, otherwise you're trusting luck and inconsistent technique. get into a focused, no an "altered state" or you won't be good enough to take an accurate shot when under pressure. buck fever isn't about bucks, it's about a lack of discipline. the recoil issue is a manifestation of the focus on the body but not the mind. you use your hands to hold the gun and pull the trigger but YOUR MIND places the shot. separate your thought and your sensations and just guide your breathe, guide your dominant hand and FEEL the shot but not the body aiming it. does that make sense to anyone or am I just being a nut (it's a shooting site, I'm in the right place either way right)?

Sourdough · « **Reply #17 on:** December 04, 2009, 10:28:10 PM »

Squib: Can see from the picture she is small, like my wife. A youth stock will be the right size for her. They call it a youth stock, but it should be called Women/Youth stock. My wife is 4'11", she cut her Remington 7400 down to a 12" pull. She also cut my Custom Mauser .35 Whelen down to the same size, Now no one but her and kids can shoot them. I sure can not, they will give me a bloody nose, stock is too short.

It's best to hold off and start her with her own gun that is her size. Otherwise is will be so unpleasant she WILL lose interest. You will not understand it because the stock fits you and it is not unpleasant for you.

Squib · « **Reply #18 on:** December 05, 2009, 04:37:36 AM »

where to get stocks other than the factory for handi-rifles?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** December 05, 2009, 04:48:02 AM »

Site sponsor GSI, Boyd's has or had some unfinished camo lam thumbholes, same as those H&R sells.

Tim

www.gunstocksinc.com

petemi · « **Reply #20 on:** December 05, 2009, 06:21:32 AM »

I have yet to hear a hunting rifle go off, let alone feel recoil. It matters not if its a .22LR or a .45-70. I've never said "Crap, what was that." Shooting off a bench is an entirely different thing......totally unrelated to hunting. For some magical reason, recoil stays home when you take a rifle to the woods.

Pete

mechanic · « **Reply #21 on:** December 05, 2009, 06:26:51 AM »

The first time I shot a .375 H&H bolt gun off sandbags using a short eye relief scope...the recoil really was all in my head....I've never shot a 45-70, even a stiff hand load in my BC that was as bad as that....

Sourdough · « **Reply #22 on:** December 05, 2009, 07:26:08 AM »

I have two guns that definitely get my attention when I shoot them. I have a Remington 600, (tiny little carbine length gun) in .350 Rem Mag. Ouch. Then my TCR with the 3 1/2" 12ga barrel. I'll never shoot it while sitting down again.

But my Handi's, I never feel them go off when in the field. Then I think back to when I was 10, Dad let me shoot my Grandpa's 12ga. Cured me wanting to look closer at it. From that point I never wanted to be near that thing till I was seventeen. When I was 13 Dad gave me a 410/.22rf Savage. Stock was way too long for me, but I did not understand that at the time, neither did Dad. I grew up hating that 410, thought it was the worst gun in the world. When I heard some praise the 410 I honestly thought they were nuts. All because the stock was too long and it hurt so bad to shoot the gun.

Then I got to shooting my buddies, War relic, a Jap 7.7. The Japanese being short statured people the stock was short. It fit and I loved shooting it. Took several deer with it during my teenage years.

Squib · « **Reply #23 on:** December 05, 2009, 09:50:48 AM »

well I fired off my handi- five the first time two days ago, nine today. the nine shots today left me less sore than five the last time (and my shoulder is still slightly bruised from the first) so the sock full of lead and limbsaver really helped.... I'm still not sure if I'll actually keep the weight in it while hunting but while I'm still getting used to the trigger and sights it'll stay.

those factory sights SUCK! if the set screws are loose enough to move the sight at all then it'll about disassemble when touched (I kept losing my zero when I backed the screws off).

ps the limbsaver really helps all by itself- while the weight ain't bad, that gun was still pushing me around while sitting (according to stephanie) though I couldn't feel it till the last three shots.... I got my $20 worth. sourdough- do you think the limbsaver throws off the aim a bit with the "wiggle" inherent in a sleeve?

Swampman · « **Reply #24 on:** December 05, 2009, 09:52:48 AM »

The .30-06 in a handi kicks a lot. The .45-70 isn't that bad IMO.

Squib · « **Reply #25 on:** December 05, 2009, 10:07:11 AM »

I've heard that it's not the powder in the 45-70 that produces the recoil, but the heavy bullet.... sort of makes sense to me. I think that being a straight walled case and usually not hard-crimped that the bullet just slides out nice and smooth, especially lead- but 400 to 500+ grs bullets will keep the pressure up for awhile and make that heavy powder charge push on the shooter longer..... we should get tim on this one to explain it, or gb.... are you two reading this? share your brain(s) with us please.

how much better is the buffalo classic than the basic handi- mechanic

wreckhog · « **Reply #26 on:** December 05, 2009, 10:18:10 AM »

There is a fairly rough & tough thread in the lever forum about 45-70 recoil. It ain't no .223 but you can work up to it

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** December 05, 2009, 10:18:39 AM »

Powder and bullet weight are both part of the recoil equation.

Tim

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

mechanic · « **Reply #28 on:** December 05, 2009, 10:18:57 AM »

The felt recoil on the BC vs. the Handi is about the same IMO. The BC has a longer barrel, and thus exhibits more muzzle lift. With moderate loads the 45-70 is a sweetheart. When you get to pushing the envelope it can get brutal. I recently visited my friend who has a drilling in 416 Rigby. I took my BC with HOT loads, near maximum. Not much difference in felt recoil His drilling is much heavier of course. He would'nt shoot the BC but once with the hot loads. With Rem. green box loads, it is less recoil than my 20ga.

Dill45 · « **Reply #29 on:** December 05, 2009, 10:22:30 AM »

I have a marlin 45-70 and with 300gr bullets the recoil isn't that bad at all. Once you go up to 450+gr bullets the recoil can get pretty decent. I let go a near max load 510gr bullet out of it, that was something I will remember. That all being said though, the recoil on a 45-70 is more of a push than a quick smack in my opinion.

On the other hand I have a handi in 500 S&W that really kicks good. It's a much quicker smack that hits hard than a slow push back. I remember those for a couple days after words.