Author Topic: 44mag Handi vs. 45-70 Handi (Read 3389 times)

chaseguitar · « **on:** December 01, 2009, 03:47:00 PM »

I've got a bit of a dilema....I currently have a 44 mag Handi Rifle, wood stock, built on SB2 frame....I have struggled to get it to shoot worth anything...I though it might be that it was overbored but I slugged it and it measured right at .430...I have tried the WInchester gray box 240 gr load, the hornady 240 gr XTP load and the Remington 180 gr UMC load, and can't get much better than 6" at best with it....I even shot some cast bullets through it and they did no better....I really like the cartridge, I have a Blackhawk to go along with it, and in a rifle its just a joy to shoot....but I have no confidence in it when it comes time to hunt with it...The dilema now is that I have the chance to trade it on a black sythetic handi in 45-70....can expect better results with this rifle...how more will the recoil be...? Is there any thing else I can try in my 44...?

Thanks for the help in advance....

Chase

Swampman · « **Reply #1 on:** December 01, 2009, 03:51:43 PM »

The .45-70s always shoot great. You can always find a wood stock set to replace the plastic. The Remington 405 grain load probably kicks less than a .44.

cbourbeau32 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 01, 2009, 03:53:24 PM »

Put on your seatbelt as you will be in for a ride. These guys around here kind of (well to be honest they are in love with their 45/70's) you should get plenty of advice. I almost feel like I should buy one to be a part of the family here. Charlie

Big Blue · « **Reply #3 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:03:27 PM »

When you say you tried cast bullets, what size were they? Might I suggest that if you slugged it at .430" that you might try .431" or even .432" cast loads.
As for the 45/70 if you reload you can shoot it mild with level 1 Trapdoor loads or wild with level 2 levergun loads.
Might I also suggest that instead of trading your rifle in, that you send in your SB2 receiver and have a 45/70 barrel fitted for it?
Don

chaseguitar · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:14:10 PM »

The cast bullets I tried were .432...I thought they would be the trick...but they didn't seem to shoot any better to me...I should qualify this though...those were my first metallic cartridge reloads....they may been inconsistent.....

BrianB · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:17:27 PM »

Wow, that absolutely blows. I would have thought the 44 would have been a shooter right off the bat. The 45-70, from my experience with three different Handi's, has been excellent. It could be that the 44 is somewhat like my .357 that took a lot of rounds before it decided to agree with my definition of a shooter. I just don't know. Personally, given your options, I would dump it and get the 45-70. I feel sure you'll be happy with it. Recoil is a bit rough if you load it hot, but, the reality is that there is absolutely no reason to load a 45-70 hot for deer-sized game. We shoot pretty good size deer, (185 pound, 8 point bucks are kids' deer where we hunt) and a mild 45-70 load will drop them at the ranges we shoot, which is under 100 yards. (Read "mild" as off-the-shelf factory loads)
I hate to hear you're having trouble, I really like the idea of a 44 Handi. BAB

chaseguitar · « **Reply #6 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:22:55 PM »

BAB,
I like the idea too....that's why I still have it...I don't like the idea of getting beat to death at the range or anytime for that matter...

chaseguitar · « **Reply #7 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:29:59 PM »

Anybody try the Leverevolution out of the 44 handi....? Any luck...?

BrianB · « **Reply #8 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:36:20 PM »

Quote from: chaseguitar on December 01, 2009, 04:22:55 PM

BAB,
I like the idea too....that's why I still have it...I don't like the idea of getting beat to death at the range or anytime for that matter...

Amen Brother! I've got nothing to compensate for and don't feel the need to get beaten up. Too old for that sh*t. Just want to enjoy shooting and hunting.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:42:45 PM »

Quote from: chaseguitar on December 01, 2009, 04:29:59 PM

Anybody try the Leverevolution out of the 44 handi....? Any luck...?

Yup, my 44mag shoots LEs great with my old eyes and a Williams WGRS peep sight from 100yds!

But you really need a 45-70 or two, I have four of em plus a 45-120, all H&Rs, one of the best H&R chamberings ever made.

Tim

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #10 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:46:38 PM »

Something isn't right if all you can get is 6" groups. Granted, mine is one of the ones with the correct bore, but I was hitting clay birds off hand at 100 yd with 3 shots, and I don't think I could with one of the others I have. My eyes don't see the sights that good anymore. If you bought it from the dealer, send it back to H&R, if you put it together, check FAQ's to work out the bugs. DP

45-70.gov · « **Reply #11 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:50:38 PM »

see if your barrel is thighter at the breach than the muzzle

hornady jacketed slugs seem to be larger

try verals fire lapping

swampman......my 45-70 trap door loads kick much more than my 44mag

but 45-70 aint bad

i like both rounds about the same
also you got that revolver to go with it

keep the 44 mag

but every one needs a 45-70,,,,,its mandatory
so is a pistol round handi so your half way there

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:53:41 PM »

Quote from: chaseguitar on December 01, 2009, 03:47:00 PM

I've got a bit of a dilema....I currently have a 44 mag Handi Rifle, wood stock, built on SB2 frame....I have struggled to get it to shoot worth anything...I though it might be that it was overbored but I slugged it and it measured right at .430...I have tried the WInchester gray box 240 gr load, the hornady 240 gr XTP load and the Remington 180 gr UMC load, and can't get much better than 6" at best with it....

That tells me you likely have oil on the latch/shelf, read the Handi Basics 101, and shoot it again with the 240gr Win ammo, it's been a good choice.

Tim

revbc · « **Reply #13 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:56:19 PM »

The 45/70 is a real shooter. You can load it mild, wild, or insane. I was loading close to a max Ruger No1 load and it was a real stomper. Backed off to somewhere between a trapdoor level and lever level load. With a mercury recoil suppressor installed I shot it 15 or so times from the bench with no ill affects.

Here's a few groups.

wreckhog · « **Reply #14 on:** December 01, 2009, 09:50:49 PM »

45-70 405's are $2 a shot vs 1/2-1/3 for cheap 44 Mag. Kinda sucks the wind out of a day of plinking. Great round though. I have 2 levers and a barrel on the way. I'd take the trade even if the 44 was a good shooter. 6" at 100 yards may be fine if it just gets shot once a year at a 50 yard doe. My .44 Marlin lever will not stay on paper at 25 yards with some loads. Awesome keyholing. I could do better with a slingshot. I just stuck it in the safe.

petemi · « **Reply #15 on:** December 02, 2009, 12:25:58 AM »

I agree.....ya gotta have both. My .44 and .45-70 are both great shooters. The .44 mag was reamed to .445 Super and it didn't change a thing. The only .44 ammo I put through it are the LEs.

Pete

chaseguitar · « **Reply #16 on:** December 02, 2009, 02:33:53 AM »

Thanks for the help folks....I'm gonna try the LEs....and some the of the Handi 101 stuff....

Swampman · « **Reply #17 on:** December 02, 2009, 02:37:04 AM »

The LE ammo is no better than any cup & core bullet.

Lefty Dude · « **Reply #18 on:** December 02, 2009, 05:43:44 AM »

LE ammo? please explain, thank you.

Fortkevin2 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 02, 2009, 05:49:39 AM »

Lever Evolution from Hornady

rickt300 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 02, 2009, 05:55:56 AM »

I guess I lucked out with my 44 magnum barrel, it is a tackdriver with anything that is pushed near max or over 1400 fps. Slow loads are not going to stabilize in my barrel and the best shooting loads are 240 gr. XTP's at max with IMR 4227 and H110. I went from a 45-70 barrel to a 44 mag barrel because I could use less powder to get the velocities that the 300 grain 45-70 factory loads were giving with noticably less recoil. A trigger job could also be what's causing the problem. Before I did mine it did not shoot as well for me as it does now.

anweis · « **Reply #21 on:** December 02, 2009, 06:16:15 AM »

Quote from: revbc on December 01, 2009, 04:56:19 PM

The 45/70 is a real shooter. You can load it mild, wild, or insane. I was loading close to a max Ruger No1 load and it was a real stomper. Backed off to somewhere between a trapdoor level and lever level load. With a mercury recoil suppressor installed I shot it 15 or so times from the bench with no ill affects.

Here's a few groups.

revbc, what 300 gr. bullet is that?

petemi · « **Reply #22 on:** December 02, 2009, 08:41:44 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 02, 2009, 02:37:04 AM

The LE ammo is no better than any cup & core bullet.

How many deer have you killed with them, how far have you shot them, and what do your 50 and 100 yard targets look like?

They're magic in the .44 and .45-70. I have them, but not tried them in .30-30 and .357. I'll let you know what happens with this "no better ammo".

Pete

petemi · « **Reply #23 on:** December 02, 2009, 08:47:43 AM »

Tim, I have to agree with you. The .45-70 is one of the best H&R chamberings made. I've had two barrels now, and both shot extremely well. I traded an ejector for an extractor with a member here, and we are both

His jumped right on my frame and mine on his. Worked out very well.

Pete

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #24 on:** December 02, 2009, 08:58:04 AM »

Swampman I have tried Leverevolution AND Rem 405 grain and the LR is more accurate, like 2" at 100 yards with iron sights, in my gun. It makes sense, the pointed bullet goes through the air with less wind resistance, thus a little more accurate. I do reload 405 gr CL bullets because they are so cheap, but for long range the LR ammo sighted 3" high at 100 gets me 3" low at 200, makes a 200 yard gun out of the 45-70.

newdad · « **Reply #25 on:** December 02, 2009, 10:55:30 AM »

i have both, a 44 and a 45-70 handi rifle. the recoil of the 45-70 is much worse than the 44. after shooting 15 rounds of remington 405s in the 45-70 the 44 feels like your shooting a 22. i wouldnt trade either of them for another gun, the 44 has taken well over 20 deer and the 45-70 is at about ten deer taken with it now.

mkgeorgetown · « **Reply #26 on:** December 02, 2009, 01:06:36 PM »

I have a 44 mag handi and mine didn't do so hot out the gate either. I found that my foreend was tight, had places where I could not slide a dollar bill in between barrel and forearm. I removed forearm and removed material with sandpaper until a dollar could be slid in between and also but a neoprene washer between barrel and forearm (see faq), these made a great deal of difference. My best ammo for accuracy has been Magtech 240 grain JSP's. I have killed two deer with these this year, I do not like how these bullets perform on game though and am going to try some Hornady XTP JHP's. Good luck and don't give up unless you have tried some of these suggestions from Faqs, the 44 is great up close, and I plan on my son to use it here in around 5 years or so (after Daddy breaks it in of course

Swampman · « **Reply #27 on:** December 02, 2009, 01:21:38 PM »

Wow I can barely feel the Remington 405 grain load. If you're gonna shoot 300 grain bullets you may as well get the .44 Mag. working. The .45-70 totally out classes it with the heavy bullets. I'm confused about the talk of recoil with the Remington 405.

wreckhog · « **Reply #28 on:** December 02, 2009, 01:33:38 PM »

405s push more than snap. 300s snap. I find 405's slightly more tolerable than some factory 30-30 and 44 mag loads at the range. Won't even notice them in the field.

briannmilewis · « **Reply #29 on:** December 02, 2009, 02:22:46 PM »

Chase:

How many rounds thru the rifle?

Many Handis need 50+ rounds to start to get accurate and work best with dirty barrels, so tuning the ammo is of little use before that many rounds are put thru it. 44 Mag is #2 on my list of H&R purchases.

Good luck.

Brian