Author Topic: Long-range white-tail suggestions. (Read 1433 times)

luke6417 · « **on:** December 01, 2009, 04:34:16 AM »

I live in Mississippi. Our deer aren't very big at all. A 200lb deer is a monster around here. I hunt two distinctly different types of terrain. I have a multiple set-ups for huting the dense creek bottoms that we have, but I want something to reach out and touch one out to 500 yds when I hunt some of our other property. I know that practice more than choice of caliber has more to do with that than anything else, but right now, I'm undecided on which barrel I want to buy. I am trying to decide between .243, .308, 25-06 or .280. If the made a 30-06 or .270 in a 24" barrel, I would consider those as well.

PawPaw · « **Reply #1 on:** December 01, 2009, 05:09:29 AM »

The .25-06 or .280 might fit the bill perfectly. You want the bullet to carry enough energy at 500yards to do the job. Look at standard ballistic tables and pick a load with over 1000 lbs of thump at your intended ranges.

Just from looking at the Remington Ballistic Tables, the .25-06 (115 gr Core-Lokt Ultra) has 903 ft/lbs and the 280 Rem (140 gr Premier Accu-Tip) has 1369 ft/lbs.

Then, practice, practice, practice. 500 yards is a long way from the stand.

Sourdough · « **Reply #2 on:** December 01, 2009, 07:50:00 AM »

Any of the four will do the job, but I would go with either the .308 or .25-06. These two I have had experience with at those ranges and they work well.

Practice, practice, practice is what will get the deer. A good range finder would not hurt either, since ranges can be deceiving. Thought I was good at estimating, till I got one.

Spanky · « **Reply #3 on:** December 01, 2009, 07:55:02 AM »

Everybody wants to play sniper nowadays.

Get out of the cushy stand and GET CLOSER to the game.
The average hunter can't hit anything at 500 yds. anyway.

Whatever happened to stalking??

Spanky

luke6417 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2009, 08:41:11 AM »

I actually have done alot of stalking, mainly after hogs in south Florida. Well that might have been more sloshing than stalking. The biggest deer that I ever killed was shot at 11 yds from the ground. Two weeks ago I was sitting on the ground in a trukey seat and had a doe and 2 fawns pass within 10yds without even noticing me. I don't pretend to be any sort of sniper, but about half of my hunts are on a cattle ranch that provides lots of long range shot opportunities. The setup that I currently use for this is a Ruger .308. I am very comfortable with it out to 300yds on a solid rest. I would like this rifle to be something that shoots a little bit flatter and has a little bit more weight to it. It won't be something that I carry when taking quiet walk around my property. It will pretty much be used extensively in a shooting house.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2009, 08:51:01 AM »

280 or 25-06 would be the pick of the litter. DP

redboot612 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 01, 2009, 08:57:42 AM »

I'm the same way all of my shots are 200+ yards. There are not any woods on our lease just thickets. THERE ARE NOT ANY GOOD CHOICES FOR GROUND BLINDS. Good luck on your long shots.
Red

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #7 on:** December 01, 2009, 09:02:47 AM »

308 , all will work as already posted . I like a 2506 but in wind a 308 May be a tad better . Also pratice ammo might cost less and long shots need to be praticed .

Sourdough · « **Reply #8 on:** December 01, 2009, 09:38:37 AM »

Spanky: Got news for you buddy, 500 yards is not long range. My Handi makes 500 yard shots weekly. My big rifle is sighted in for 400 yards, so 500 is easy. Beyond 500 yards I consider long range.

Some of us don't live or hunt where we can stalk to within 100 yards of game. Oh when I lived in Tennessee everything I shot was 40 yards. Then in New Mexico, shots moved out to 80 to 250 yards. Now that I live in Alaska they have moved even farther. Like this weekend, I was in snow with nothing to hide behind higher than my ankles. We were above tree line. On ridges and saddles where you could see for ever. That's where the bull Moose were. We could not get within 1000 yards of any Moose the first three days. One of my partners did get a shot at a Black Fox. The fox was on a gut pile and we got to within 600 yards by sliding down a ditch. Don made the shot and connected with a 25-06. At that range the bullet did not do a lot of damage either. 1/4" hole in 1" hole out.

Long Range is not hard if you have the right equipment and practice. I'm still looking for that 1000 yard Moose.

petemi · « **Reply #9 on:** December 01, 2009, 09:47:11 AM »

Why do I keep saying this

.......I don't own a .280 yet, but I worked on a buddy's Handi to accurize it, and I love it. Not so subject to wind drift as the .25-06 and without the drop of the .30-06, and hits with the same authority. I'll own one soon.

Pete

tykempster · « **Reply #10 on:** December 01, 2009, 12:12:28 PM »

280 or 30-06 would probably be the best Handi choice.

Spanky · « **Reply #11 on:** December 01, 2009, 12:18:39 PM »

Couldn't get within 1000 yds of a moose? Or 600 yds of a fox? I hate to say it my friend but that is laughable.

Both of them critters can easily be called to within bow range so why the difficulty?
I'm not trying to knock what you're saying but we both know you could have gotten closer if you wanted to. You said yourself "I'm still looking for that 1000 yd. moose"

I agree with most of what you say but......

Spanky

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 01, 2009, 02:48:51 PM »

Don't laugh but I've never in my life shot a gun over 100 yards hunting or at the range, I'm a native New Englander and it just doesn't happen around here unless you own a big farm.
I personally like the challenge of getting close myself but if I were shopping for a long range big game rifle I'd probably go with the good old .308.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #13 on:** December 01, 2009, 03:02:26 PM »

Pete, ya got a good start on the 280 with the 7mm-08. My 280's are my do all guns, but the 7-08 is really going out with me alot. I didn't even take a 280 out of the gun safe this fall, but 3 different 7-08's went out to dance. BUT, none of my 280's are gonna leave this house to another unless I give one to one of the kids. DP

blind ear · « **Reply #14 on:** December 01, 2009, 03:29:16 PM »

Given the accuracy in any gun, bullet performance is the problem. A bullit that will open up at 500 yd will likely explode at less than 100. A 45 70 or other big bore will give wound channel but trajectory becomes the problem. Trade offs any way you go. Good luck. eddiegjr

Mac11700 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 01, 2009, 03:55:41 PM »

Quote from: Spanky on December 01, 2009, 12:18:39 PM

Couldn't get within 1000 yds of a moose? Or 600 yds of a fox? I hate to say it my friend but that is laughable.
Both of them critters can easily be called to within bow range so why the difficulty?
I'm not trying to knock what you're saying but we both know you could have gotten closer if you wanted to. You said yourself "I'm still looking for that 1000 yd. moose"
I agree with most of what you say but......

Spanky

Spanky...

If Sourdough says he couldn't get any closer...I would believe him..

Mac

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 01, 2009, 04:45:38 PM »

I've never hunted in Alaska, but I know something about animal behavior in wide open spaces, and if you can see the animal they can see you, and will just keep their distance. You move, they move!

Only way to get closer is to stay out of sight and pop up now and then to see where they are and hope they don't see you first.

If he says he can't get closer, believe it!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** December 01, 2009, 05:00:15 PM »

Quote from: eddiegjr on December 01, 2009, 03:29:16 PM

Given the accuracy in any gun, bullet performance is the problem. A bullit that will open up at 500 yd will likely explode at less than 100. A 45 70 or other big bore will give wound channel but trajectory becomes the problem. Trade offs any way you go. Good luck. eddiegjr

Maybe with standard cup and core bullets, but not with modern bonded or copper bullets, Barnes TSX, Nosler Accubond and many others will perform close or far with good terminal performance, this is the 21st century after all, lots of good bullet$ made in the last few years.

Tim

buckslayer · « **Reply #18 on:** December 01, 2009, 05:02:14 PM »

Quote from: Spanky on December 01, 2009, 12:18:39 PM

Couldn't get within 1000 yds of a moose? Or 600 yds of a fox? I hate to say it my friend but that is laughable.
Both of them critters can easily be called to within bow range so why the difficulty?
I'm not trying to knock what you're saying but we both know you could have gotten closer if you wanted to. You said yourself "I'm still looking for that 1000 yd. moose"
I agree with most of what you say but......

Spanky

Have you ever hunted? Sourdough has. I believe him. Animals are pretty sharp things, and when cover is ankle deep snow above the tree line, they will see you. I have never hunted these conditions, but common sense says when there is no where to hide, things will see you.

KP · « **Reply #19 on:** December 01, 2009, 05:28:52 PM »

Rog,

Glad to see you made it back. I heard that you were over a day late making it back in. Were you stranded or what? At least the weather was nice. Any luck?

Kirk

bigbuckdown280 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 01, 2009, 05:37:28 PM »

Personally I think the .280 is an excellent choice. If you roll your own you can load varmit loads all the way up to 175gr big game loads. Its a little better in the wind and carries more thump than the .25-06. There's not much around that a well placed bullet from a .280 won't handle. The ballistics out of the Handi 26" barrel will be a little better than factory ammo specs, most of these tests are done with a 22" barrel.

Sourdough · « **Reply #21 on:** December 01, 2009, 09:13:19 PM »

KP: Bunch of AF guys had seen some Moose up Gold King so we wanted to spend another day looking for them. Dan did see them but was unable to locate after climbing up there. One got away the other hid till after dark. I'm on no schedule so when Dan wanted to stay another day we did. I just did not feel like climbing the mountain to use the cell phone. Shoulder was too sore to mess with riding up there in the dark. We were staying with Don at the mine and having a good time. Dan hit a bolder and broke the steering arm on the Tundra, right ski just turned in circles. Cut a willow stick and tied skis together to get back to the mine. Don and Dan welded the arm so Dan could ride it out to the highway. Dan is going to Compos today to get a new arm. St George, and Bonifield creeks were miserable. Trails were washed out, and overgrown. All the snow was blown off Grubstake. Ran up the river OK, but unable to leave the river bed. Banks were nothing but gravel. Wore the carbides totally out on both machines.

Spanky: On the Fox, yes, we could have gotten closer, but it would have taken a couple of hours. Don't think the Fox would have stayed around for that. Did try calling, no good. Gut pile held more interest. As for the Moose, no way to approach without being seen. No ditches, or slopes to hide behind. They are lying out on a sloping plain, anything that moves within two miles can be seen. As for calling Moose, that works during the rut in October. In November, they just look your way then move out in the other direction. Now I'm talking about a plain flat as a table top for miles, no ruts, ditches, or anything, for miles. Scattered out in the middle of that landscape the Bulls Moose will be lying. If one sees you all the rest will be aware of your presence when it jumps up and looks in your direction. It may be one 3/4s of the way across the plain, not the closest one, that stands up looking at you.

The 30-06 would be my first choice, with a 165gr bullet. The Caribou in my Avitar was taken at 250 yards with my 30-06 Handi. Can not remember the bullet used, but am thinking it was a 165gr Nosler Partition or a 165gr Sierria HPBoat Tail.

blind ear · « **Reply #22 on:** December 01, 2009, 09:54:06 PM »

At 50 yards the front can blow off a modern bullit and the base can make a pill hole through the animal and the critter get far enough away before dying to recover it because of no blood trail. I have seen it happen with a 300 Mag. Meat and hair hanging in the trees but the deer ran off. May not be the standard but it can happen. A well placed shot in the lungs is safest for sure, It was a point of the sholder shot. eddiegjr

krod47nw · « **Reply #23 on:** December 01, 2009, 10:05:09 PM »

+1 for the 280

wreckhog · « **Reply #24 on:** December 01, 2009, 10:05:47 PM »

Quote from: Doublebass73 on December 01, 2009, 02:48:51 PM

Don't laugh but I've never in my life shot a gun over 100 yards hunting or at the range, I'm a native New Englander and it just doesn't happen around here unless you own a big farm.
I personally like the challenge of getting close myself but if I were shopping for a long range big game rifle I'd probably go with the good old .308.

I have 400+ yard shots at deer under power lines and by the old railroad tracks. Would never take the shot as I have no place to practice at more than 200 yards. I assume that if I had a ground blind, a bipod and a little practice, it would be a relatively easy hunt. Would hate to track the deer though. And fugedabout hauling it back up the mountain.

Squib · « **Reply #25 on:** December 01, 2009, 10:10:34 PM »

spanky... remember to stress iron sights to the civies... you meant no scope right? bet they never did that one (burnt out pos m-16 with crap ammo on a windy day... they don't even know)

did I mention I switched to aviation at one point, dropping reality bombs... BOOM!

Lazermule · « **Reply #26 on:** December 02, 2009, 01:57:02 AM »

+1 for the 280

LM

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 02, 2009, 02:18:48 AM »

Quote from: wreckhog on December 01, 2009, 10:05:47 PM

Quote from: Doublebass73 on December 01, 2009, 02:48:51 PM
Don't laugh but I've never in my life shot a gun over 100 yards hunting or at the range, I'm a native New Englander and it just doesn't happen around here unless you own a big farm.
I personally like the challenge of getting close myself but if I were shopping for a long range big game rifle I'd probably go with the good old .308.
I have 400+ yard shots at deer under power lines and by the old railroad tracks. Would never take the shot as I have no place to practice at more than 200 yards. I assume that if I had a ground blind, a bipod and a little practice, it would be a relatively easy hunt. Would hate to track the deer though. And fugedabout hauling it back up the mountain.

I forgot about the powerlines as I don't hunt them but yes, that would be the only other place where long shots are available. I don't have anywhere to practice long range and I won't shoot farther than I can practice at either.

Sourdough · « **Reply #28 on:** December 02, 2009, 08:10:43 AM »

I grew up in Tennessee with heavy woods and brush everywhere. Seldom made shots over 40 yards. Just before I was to leave home to join the Air Force, I really wanted a Whitetail bad. I had hunted every evening just before dark for a week and had seen many deer but was not able to get a shot due to heavy brush. Last weekend I was hunting a big Wyerhouser owned property when I came across an old man sitting at a shooting bench. A wheelchair nearby. The shooting bench was set up at the edge of a power line cut, and he could see for hundreds of yards in both directions. I stopped and spoke to the man, he seemed to want to talk. I told him I did not want to blow his chance to shoot a deer. He said not to worry about that he already had one down, and was waiting for his son to come and drag it in.

The old guy was sitting there with a 30-06 rifle on his bench. He had shot a deer at 600 yards. That was the first time I had ever seen someone shoot at that range. I went and dragged his Buck over to his shooting bench, then gutted it for him. Neck shot deer never went anywhere. I left there with a lot of respect for his shooting ability.

That got me to thinking about my Grandpa. He shot Ground Hogs from the front porch, to the garden. 125 yards to the garden, 150 yards to the far side. Grandpa used an old Stevens single shot .22RF with factory iron sites. Grandpa never missed, one shot one dead Ground Hog. Oh I'm sure he missed sometime, but I never saw it. No one ever told Grandpa .22RFs were no good beyond 100 yards.

Got me to thinking, what did they have in common, this old disabled man and my Grandpa? Experience, and lots of it. Years of shooting and lots of practice. That's the key, lots of practice.

petemi · « **Reply #29 on:** December 02, 2009, 08:29:33 AM »

Sourdough, you've got that right....a lot of practice. The kick in the butt is the older we get the more we need to do it to keep up with our failing eyesight and hearing. Most "deer hunters" don't have a clue where their bullet is going past 100 yards.....many don't know where it's going period.

Pete