Interesting Jerusalem Post article

[rio grande]

Are THESE the people God gave the Land of Israel to?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1259231077244

[BBF]

Perhaps it was "Taken" rather then "Given". After all the place wasn't uninhabited.

[teamnelson]

Jesus did promise that all that would follow Him would suffer. Bless those who curse you.

[ironglow]

  We had some fine troops that were spat upon as they returned from Vietnam. It wasn't every American doing that; it was a bigoted, stupid, putty minded bunch of idiots who were programmed by Communist professors. Likely, the scene is similar in Jerusalem today.

   Pause for a moment and consider what these same Christian clerics may have been subjected to in Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan or Somalia in the last decade.. or even in Jerusalem itself, were the Muslims in possession of all Israel.  

  With TN I say ..read Matthew 5:11

[teamnelson]

IG, good points. Americans react with disbelief when I bring up stoning. I've seen it firsthand, I've watched it live on a national TV in 2001. Brutal, but common for apostates. Dagestan ... they beheaded Christian clerics and put their heads on stakes outside of town ... in 2003. Somalia ... they stacked tires on Somali Christian church leaders, doused them in gasoline and set them on fire with their families watching ... at least up through 1994. Had a confrontation with a Wahabi Imam in a port in East Africa - my Somali Muslim friends pulled me, my wife and my two small children out of the marketsquare fast and they argued with him that we had done nothing but help them in the name of God, and all he had done was preach hate. A local business owner was so embarassed he came by my house the next day to apologize on behalf of Islam.

[powderman]

They are wasting good spit, it should be reserved for the muslims. the Godless ones have no business in Jeruselum, Gods Holy City. POWDERMAN. 

[Squib]

when religion is the absolute rule and structure to one's conscience, it is the absolute and obvious target for manipulation.  no matter how pious a zealot, his religion can be turned to hatred and sin.  I'm not religious but I DO BELIEVE IN SIN.  let's remember that the bible has some disgusting topics within that are too vile for most christians to even contemplate, and that in the end of days men are lost to plague, natural disaster, and the very spite of god.  sure the devil has an army and calvary but he's just tormenting people... God and his more divine creations destroy ALL people but the righteous... denomination means nothing. Now I'm not a man to preach religion because I don't take most of it word for word but it's pretty clear that religion won't save you.  either you're connection to the holy spirit is strengthened and blessed by your good works, or you are spurned and eventually held accountable for being a scumbag.  by spurned I mean killed in horrible fashion and probably damned too.  ps to all, lots of people say that only christianity is pure and jews "sort of" know where we're coming from... jews/christians/muslims worship god as god and buddhists claim jesus even, as a buddha (they say his message was diluted with dogma and theological constraints to gain political control- and they're right about that by all accounts).  Muslims and Christians argue about his phophet status... not who he was or what he did.  they're still of abraham and god's chosen,  they worship the same god, same jesus, acknowledge the same patrons, know of the same people and stories.  add some more superstitious talk of demons and elementals and it's just about the same EXCEPT ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER ISAAC OR ISHMAEL IS CHOSEN, AND CLAIMING ISHMAEL.

[powderman]

Better reread that. The Bible is very plain that ISACC was Gods chosen, ishmael was not Gods idea but Saras, look it up. Jesus is seen by the Godless ones as a prophet, not Gods son or the Messiah, which he is. Anybody that believes in islam would have to believe that God changed his mind about salvation and Jesus. The goal of islam was, is, always will be to destroy everything that Jesus Christ ever taught, or built. No comparison between muslims and anybody else in the world, satans disciples describes them perfectly. POWDERMAN. 

[rio grande]

I think what's needed is 'balance'. When some Muslims commit atrocities such as church burning or murder of non-Muslims of course point it out and oppose it. When some Jews attack Christians, let that be known and opposed as well.
When we talk of the 'Muslim Bomb' lets not forget the Israeli nuclear arsenal.
It IS true that 'officially' Muslims revere Jesus as a prophet.  It is equally true that Jews do not.
If Iran has no love for the United States, Israel is no friend of the United States either.
Israel spies on the U.S., steals our technology whenever possible, attempts to control our government for it's own ends.
Modern day Israel cares only for itself.
I see on this site and others certain people constantly attempting to stir up hatred against Muslims, but who always turn a blind eye to the misdeeds of their 'friends' the Zionists.
One really has to wonder why.
I don't understand why any free man or woman would bow down before the Jewish supremacists. Personally, I find no Biblical justification for it at all, and find little 'Christian Zionism' in the long history of the Church. 

[ironglow]

  TM;
  Youy just laid outr a litany of alleged crimes against Christians by Israelis..you have been read..

  Now, just to be "fair & balanced", would you mind going through just a fraction of the proven atrocities perpetrated against Christians & Jews by Muslims in Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Libya, Indonesia, Sudan and Kuwait ..just for starters ?

[BBF]

We hear, see and read every thing nasty that the Muslims are doing and hardly anything what the Israelis do.

hmm, oh, when you control the media it is not a difficult thing.  

[billy_56081]

I am sure a few here would have fit right into the Third Reich. So did you guys take lessons in goose stepping.

MMMMM I can taste the BBQ now!

[ironglow]

TM'
  Let's review each of your points A thru I and see how credible they are...

a) Neither the terrorists or some Mexicans need citizenship..they sneak in anyway.
b) They don't fill many high offices, but they are still close with the prez..( e.g. Calypso Louis Farrakhan).. and when was the last time we saw BHO give a low "scrape & bow to Netanyahu?
c) They sure don't..they make photos, drawings and info dossiers on sensitive sites and send them to ME terrorist leaders..for FREE!
d) They sure don't..they call us "Big Satan" the #1 enemy..and have tried to kill or cripple us several times.
e) Hillary just gave the Gaza strip alone, somethingh like $600 billion..they didn't buy US weapons, they bought Russian stuff...cheaper.
f) They haven't fired on our Naval ships?  Seems there was an incident with the Iranian navy a few weeks ago. Of course they stupidcide bombed the USS Cole, and killed a bunch and clearly did it intentionally. Then there are the Somali/Muslim pirates who took over a US merchant ship..for a while..but it cost them their heads, literally!
g) They have no room left for the real God,They suck uip an a myth developed by a 7th c entury camel driver/pedophile.
h)Who has recognized borders..the Taliban, the pirates..or Al Queda?
i) Do not commit genocide..better check with Christians in Sudan.
j) They don't display "false flags" or any other flag..they don't even have a uniform..except for the occasional birka.
k)Don't harbor criminals? Khadaffi kept some for a long time..when was the last time Al Queda handed over some of their terrorists?
l) Yes those ME Muslim countries sometimes allow US troops to be stationed on their soil...but only when we are "saving their bacon"
whenever their "brethren" are trying to destroy them.

[teamnelson]

Perhaps TN will chip in on muzzie regard for messiah Jesus (PBUH)

A young Somali christian that assisted me in learning the language was named 'isa at birth - Jesus, in Arabic. His devout muslim father named all of his sons after prophets. Isa was raised a devout muslim but converted to christianity and fled to Nairobi where I met him. Jesus is the only sinless man in Islam - not even Mohammed was sinless. The Quran teaches that the people of the book (Christians) have the truth if they follow the prophet Jesus, and some Imams believe that truly devout Christians will find paradise. They are able to separate our faith from our government.

A rare war story ... I was moving through our battlespace when the call came in I was requested at a different position, so they did a battlefield hand off of me and my personal security. Only problem was the hand off was in broad daylight on IED alley, to an Iraqi unit we were training. We wound up riding in the back of an open truck (over the same stretch of road I'd later get wounded on) with a half dozen Sunni Iraqi soldiers. They saw the cross on my uniform and asked about it, when I told them who I was they all got really respectful. Then they noticed I had no (visible) weapon, and they about fell over themselves with excitement asking questions about christianity, America, and why we claim to be a christian nation but our wives are all prostitutes (not kidding). That experience is consistent with every Arab and African Muslim I've talked to over the last 20 years, in about 15 countries ... with the exception of Wahabis, and the one Al Qaeda Cleric I shook hands with in an odd scenario (the town kicked him out after that, and its now a resort community).

Don't get me wrong ... lots of evil done in the name of Islam, but usually thats added after the course of action has been chosen to rally recruits and give a semblance of "justness" about the endeavor. The actual motive is most frequently petty, selfish and evil and has little to do with doctrinal disputes. And Islam still is a pack of lies, cleverly concocted by a politically motivated person with deep insight in tribal psychology, and ambition. When a Jew spits on a Priest, it has little to do with faith and mostly to do with cultural pride.

[rio grande]

When a Jew spits on a Priest, it has little to do with faith and mostly to do with cultural pride.

That makes it better.  
If a White man spits on a Black man, or vice-versa, I guess it's OK if it's because of "cultural pride"

[Squib]

from the standpoint of a non-religious guy that just tries to live like a decent human being and keep my sin minimal... I've gotta say that I really don't care what symbols and names a person uses to relate to the divine, I do not care.  what scares me is when people go off psychopathically preaching and then taking up arms when ignored, trying to fix the world by murder and terrorism.  that's relative to all religions.. the chill people aren't motivated to go out and attack anyone unless provoked- the prosyletize and persecute mentality is only found in the extremists.  while I do respect islam as a faith, I do also side with tn when he says it was created by a master manipulator.  problem is for me that growing up catholic, the more I read the more I grew disgusted, popes went to war with kings on tangible and political battlefields for many generations... and the roman catholic church was more of a conglomeration of pagan tribes than jesus as the history reads to me.  after seeing that my faith got corrupted by generations of deceit... I really can't point any fingers.  Maybe Muslims revised biblical history a bit and actually got closer to the mark, maybe the protestants did that, maybe the jews are closer to the "true word"?  I really don't know and never will know, how deeply perverted most religions have become over 2,000yrs... Jesus was claimed in most accounts of the ancient world so why question his existence?  question who and what he was, question the format of the particular book, question the motivations of the authors and organizations writing those books.  none of them are even close to pure- but the message is to not be a piece of crap, live righteously and set a good example for society.  do it or don't- most people can't even get that far.

[teamnelson]

When a Jew spits on a Priest, it has little to do with faith and mostly to do with cultural pride.

That makes it better.  
If a White man spits on a Black man, or vice-versa, I guess it's OK if it's because of "cultural pride"

RG, I don't think it's ok, I just don't blame everything on religion. Per scripture, pride is the root of racism.

[Squib]

not only have I got to get my gripes out on here the last few days lately, but the more I read and post about this stuff the more it seems we're all doomed... I can deal with dying but living my last forty in a 3rd world nation is scary.... I worry about it with recession and overt socialists on the horizon.  on the plus side I just got a new gun so I guess the sun shall rise again.

[Squib]

organized religion has the ability to leverage guilt, fear of eternal death, and in the case of zealots- brainwashing.  if the wrong people have the wrong positions of authority and prestige within an organization of faith, then the flock is really sheep.  I always loved when a pastor called me a sheep   

in the case of my religion- priests molesting little boys, way to go!  back to hyper-political roman catholicism.... you all wonder why I'm not religious 

[ironglow]

   TM;
  It is indeed, difficult to see where the great respect for Jesus comes in, when the Koran figures the followers of Jesus should be either;
 1) Killed
      or
 2) Taxed for their belief

  My post #15 which you were so concerned with was only direct answers to your listed complaints against another ME nation

  Note my sentence # J in post #15;
 j) They don't display "false flags", or any other flag..they don't even have a uniform..except for the occasional birka. 
   
     ...It was just about at the moment I was writing that, when some clown in Somalia..acted to proved my statement !
  http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gIbLfNKAFhme2-65LRLRHvGWd0gw


   If you scroll down to about the third paragraph from the bottom, you will find that  the "stupidcide" hero was doing just that !

[powderman]

The Godless ones revering Jesus Christ is a lie. Their whole cult is designed to destroy everything Jesus taught or built. The Jesus they say they revere doesn't exist. Islam is a cancer, a boil on the butt of the entire world. You can't love Jesus and preach hatred and death of all who refuse to bow down to islam. Mohamed was a false prophet and islam is a false religion. POWDERMAN. 

[teamnelson]

TM7, I have to agree with the Spirit of P-mans post here. And I'd like to raise the bet. All religions are ripe for failure regardless of whose teachings they espouse to follow. Islam is no more salvific than Judaism or even Christianity as many seem to casually approach it today. But that's a subject for a forum that was turned off because the religious discussions were drowning out truth.

Real truth brings freedom. I see oppression historically and currently at the hands of everyone - no particular group stands out with clean hands and a pure heart.
 

[BBF]

.................... - no particular group stands out with clean hands and a pure heart....................
 

You "said" a mouthful there! and am in total agreement with you on that.

[SHOOTALL]

Guess they were in the right place if they draw that much attention .

[teamnelson]

I always loved when a pastor called me a sheep   

You'd prefer being called a swine? perhaps a jackass?   
just pulling your leg squib.

"All we LIKE sheep have gone astray ..." every Biblical comparison of people to sheep is actually a commentary on how those people are acting ... sheep-like, which is never a good thing.

[teamnelson]

Religion and faith are 2 different things; correctly practiced the former is an expression of the latter.

It is my experience that many get it backwards, and worse still, they're religion is merely an extension of their culture (tribal or otherwise). So their faith, what they trust in, is actually from their culture, and not truly from divine origins. Syncretism writ large.

A devout Israeli Jew spits on a Christian cleric. We know this is not taught by G-d; it is also not commonly and historically accepted by all Jews ... so this can neither be an expression of faith or religion. Jews have historically confused their culture as faith, but God condemned that repeatedly in scripture. So what we have here is culturally fueled, but wearing the guise of religion. Blaming it on the religion or even faith would be like calling a hiring manager a racist for not hiring an ethnic applicant.

Islam is unique in that it is unabashedly built from the ground up out of culture, not revelation.

[ironglow]

TN;
   Agreed...and I was just about to explain to Squib in answer to his post saying he was not religious, that I am not religious either.
 "Religion" gets people in all kinds of trouble.

[Oldshooter]

Religion and faith are 2 different things; correctly practiced the former is an expression of the latter.

It is my experience that many get it backwards, and worse still, they're religion is merely an extension of their culture (tribal or otherwise). So their faith, what they trust in, is actually from their culture, and not truly from divine origins. Syncretism writ large.

A devout Israeli Jew spits on a Christian cleric. We know this is not taught by G-d; it is also not commonly and historically accepted by all Jews ... so this can neither be an expression of faith or religion. Jews have historically confused their culture as faith, but God condemned that repeatedly in scripture. So what we have here is culturally fueled, but wearing the guise of religion. Blaming it on the religion or even faith would be like calling a hiring manager a racist for not hiring an ethnic applicant.

Islam is unique in that it is unabashedly built from the ground up out of culture, not revelation.

What a good explanation, I'm keeping an eye on you TN, I appreciate your presence here. My pastor came to our Church with his own tractor and I said at the time that any pastor that brings his own tractor has got to be good. Now to have a pastor that can bring his own army Well............We may need to  build you a new sanctuary! 

[ironglow]

  TM; I look at it this way;
  
    " I am the way the truth and the life: noone cometh to the Father but by me".   ...Jesus Christ AD 30

[Squib]

I believe Jesus was onto something since most faiths acknowledge him as a great prophet... I've never heard of Jesus being demonized like most everything else in religion.  They all argue his role as prophet/son of God but not his righteousness.