Author Topic: Don't try to glass bed a XL7, it won't work! (Read 3593 times)

doninva · « **on:** November 26, 2009, 04:58:47 PM »

I decided to glass bed the action, recoil lug on my XL7 270 winchester. I used Brownell gel glass. I have glassed about 12 rifles through the years with some good and some OK. All shot better but looks on a couple have been border line $:-\$ . This is the plastic molded stock. I put release agent on all the metal and glassed her up. Left for 24 hours. When I went to pull the barreled action from the stock, it was a little hard as usual. I puuled a little harder and bingo, she poped out. Wel, to my surprise, the glass molded real well to the metal and did not stick to the plastic stock. I was able to pull the glass off the metal, as I had 4 coats of release agent. Moral of story, don't try to glass these stocks as the glass won't adhere to the plastic. I had glassed 2 rifles from this gel kit so the glass was fine.
Don

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** November 26, 2009, 05:36:53 PM »

Actually it will ya just didn't do it correctly. You must first rough up the plastic and better yet drill a hole or three here and there for the epoxy to sink down into. Do that and it will stick just fine.

BTW isn't the XL7 a bolt gun not a lever gun?

doninva · « **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2009, 05:57:29 PM »

You are correct. I thought I read and ceterfire rifles. getting cenile in my old age. Please delete. Don

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** November 26, 2009, 11:52:52 PM »

No need to delete we'll just move it where it belongs which is a far more active forum than this one anyway.

doninva · « **Reply #4 on:** November 27, 2009, 06:44:00 PM »

Well, I sanded all surfaces and drilled holes in every place I could get the bit. I have it setting up right now. I'll let everyone know how it turns out tomorrow. Don

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** November 28, 2009, 12:33:11 AM »

Sanding wasn't exactly what I had in mind but with the holes hopefully that will do it. When I say rough it up I mean with a Dremel tool making gouges and such not just sanding off the factory surface. Still with holes drilled that should allow it to stay put.

smokey262 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 28, 2009, 02:01:47 AM »

When I bed plastic stocks I use the dremel and gouges to chew the living heck out of the places where I want the bedding compound to stick. Never a problem

diggler1833 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 28, 2009, 02:28:37 AM »

Exactly, it has got to be rough to get the bedding to stick. Now is there something in there to reduce the flex in that plastic forearm?

doninva · « **Reply #8 on:** November 28, 2009, 07:18:32 AM »

I drilled as many holes as possible. I don't have anything to gouge it with. I tried to drill the holes vertical to hold the glass.The stock seems to be very stiff so flex won't be a problem IMHO

. I am pulling it out about 4:00 today. Don

doninva · « **Reply #9 on:** November 28, 2009, 01:09:35 PM »

Well, I pulled it out and it looks fairly good. I cleaned everything up and floated the barrel. I hope to see if it was worth it tomorrow. Don

lucky guy · « **Reply #10 on:** December 02, 2009, 09:39:16 AM »

Aren't these rifles double pillar bedded? If so why bed them?

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** December 02, 2009, 10:48:25 AM »

Pillar bedding is not technically bedding at all. It's merely a couple of pillars normally metal that prevents crushing of the stock material from compression by the torque of stock screws.

The rifle still must be bedding as a separate operation. Really pillar bedding is something most commonly done with wood as wood compresses easily. Plastic stocks do not so mostly pillar bedding of a plastic stock is to take advantage of the lack of knowledge most shooters have of such matters rather than something useful.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #12 on:** December 02, 2009, 02:25:27 PM »

i do like to bed the plastic stocks with glass or epoxy, so the barreled action doesn't have room to squirm.

but yeah, pillars in a plastic stock is kinda pointless.

MZ5 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 02, 2009, 05:47:36 PM »

Without being contrary, I observe that some composite (aka plastic

) stocks will crush as or more readily than wood. I have one sitting right here, in fact...

In any case, it's been my experience that glass bedding compound will actually adhere to almost zero of the plastics commonly used for rifle stocks. The roughing up and gouging is done not for actual adhesion, but to afford opportunity for mechanical lock between the bedding compound and the stock material.

I wish you good luck in a repeat attempt to get the thing bedded.

doninva · « **Reply #14 on:** December 04, 2009, 02:09:09 PM »

Well, I went to the range today and all the trouble was worth it. The gun shoots about 1" with 3 shots. Probably will do better with a different driver and a higher magnifacation scope, but I'm pleased

. Thanks for everyone's input, Don

usherj · « **Reply #15 on:** December 05, 2009, 07:40:47 AM »

Good results! Glass bedding can be very worrisome until the action is out. The molded plastic stocks definitely need some prep to hold the bedding. The roughness really forms a mechanical lock to stay in place. The kevlar/fiberglass stocks are more expensive, but seem to be stiffer and bond more easily to bedding.

Anyway, I bedded my brothers XL7s recoil lug and front receiver ring to add some lateral support to resist the camming action (round profile action) when opening the bolt, and to keep any shifting to a minimum. Lots of space around that area the way it came. With pillars you have a more postive feel when tightening the guard screws, you know when you are there. If nothing else, the pillars help you maintain the proper postition of the barreled action in the stock when bedding. Problems can arise when too much stock material is removed and the original reference is lost. The pillars also help prevent inducing any tension into the bed job. His 30-06 easily fires 1" or better groups with fFederal 150s.

Brithunter · « **Reply #16 on:** December 05, 2009, 07:24:21 PM »

Glad you got it sorted Don

Now it's funny you all talking about piller bedding as if it was anewish idea and it seems that Paul Mauser was way ahead of his time as the Mausers were built that way from the start

the magazine floor plate forms the front piller and the rear one is a steel tube in the rear action screw hole

.

anweis · « **Reply #17 on:** December 07, 2009, 06:50:39 AM »

I believed that the Marlin bolts are pillar bedded already by the factory? And, with the plastic stock, what need is there for glass bedding? Is there a poor fit between metal and stock, perhaps at the recoil lug?

I am asking, as i am considering purchasing one of these as a rainy weather rifle.

Thanks.

Graybeard · « **Reply #18 on:** December 07, 2009, 09:07:10 AM »

Recoil lug fit is poor on ALL factory rifles and most especially so on lower priced guns like the Marlin. Fit of action is seldom great either as the stocks are just moulded to a standard on plastic stocks and if wood then cut on a machine again to a standard. No hand fitting is done really.

If you want a perfect fit you must do it yourself. Often it's OK as it comes from the factory for other than recoil lug but doing both is never a bad idea. Doing the recoil lug should be standard procedure.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #19 on:** December 07, 2009, 02:06:29 PM »

yeah but what if you have one like mine that shoot sub-1/2" at 100 yards without ANY mods at all? should i still bed it? or do the recoil lug? i hate to touch it when it shoots this well.

usherj · « **Reply #20 on:** December 07, 2009, 05:23:38 PM »

mjbgalt,

I wouldn't even remove it from the stock. Leave as is. Mission accomplished as long as it remains consistent.

Graybeard · « **Reply #21 on:** December 07, 2009, 05:56:24 PM »

If it ain't broke don't try to fix it.

no guns here · « **Reply #22 on:** December 09, 2009, 02:00:41 AM »

Not to be contrary... but... If you would have purchased a Tikka T3, you wouldn't have had to do that work and would have a rifle that would more than likely shoot around 3/4 inch out of the box.

I just can't bring myself to buy something that I have to work on to make it work right. But then I'm not an adventurous soul. I'm still trying to convince myself to paint the stock on my Tikka... It's been a year now and haven't pushed the button yet...

NGH

anweis · « **Reply #23 on:** December 09, 2009, 02:18:34 AM »

Quote from: no guns here on December 09, 2009, 02:00:41 AM

Not to be contrary... but... If you would have purchased a Tikka T3, you wouldn't have had to do that work and would have a rifle that would more than likely shoot around 3/4 inch out of the box.

I am considering it. A stainless in .338 Federal, since my hunting is mostly close range woods.

Graybeard · « **Reply #24 on:** December 09, 2009, 02:23:19 AM »

His XL7 likely cost less than half what a Tikka cost and there are several threads on here about folks buying them and having problems with them not shooting same as all others. There are no real gurantees even if the manufacturer says there are. I've owned those with accuracy gurantees that didn't even come close to meeting them.

Swampman · « **Reply #25 on:** December 09, 2009, 02:40:09 AM »

Bedding is fix. A good rifle will shoot less than 1" right out of the box. If it won't I sell it.

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #26 on:** December 09, 2009, 05:41:19 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 09, 2009, 02:40:09 AM

Bedding is fix. A good rifle will shoot less than 1" right out of the box. If it won't I sell it.

Swampman Guess Marlins are good now- since Remington bought the store so to speak ?Well Do not buy many of the bigger bore Marlin Levers as some only shoot minute of Barn . I have dumped a few and lost a few nickels going so .
As to Tikka's and a few Remingtons -
Well some rifles need to wear in so to speak, and I had a few that settled in after about a hundred rounds . Learned not to get too carried away at first until the guns settles to what it is going to do before working on loads , groups or the like until I have shot it abit . Things might just be different .

Swampman · « **Reply #27 on:** December 09, 2009, 07:30:59 AM »

My Marlin lever guns are all MOA guns.

Graybeard · « **Reply #28 on:** December 09, 2009, 11:59:22 AM »

Lying is a sin also just in case you aren't aware. If you'd stick to the truth folks wouldn't think you such a joke here.

Graybeard · « **Reply #29 on:** December 09, 2009, 12:26:49 PM »

I'm tiring of your BS. If you can't start being honest and stop being a total ass you'll get a ten day time out ban and if that doesn't do it they it will be made permanent. Are you aware you're considered to be a joke all over the entire internet?