Author Topic: I have hit a new low and it's harshing my mellow (Read 1856 times)

Questor · « **on:** October 20, 2003, 10:56:40 AM »

After engaging in the sensible and sane activity of handgun hunting, I've decided to go bowhunting because my state's archery deer season runs from September through December, while the gun season is only a couple of weeks long.

Man! These bowhunters are bona fide kooks! Take camouflage for example. They hunt on public land, standing still in treestands, and not wearing so much as a scrap of hunter orange. Sounds like a great way to get shot out of a tree. Somebody please explain why the heck a bowhunter needs full body camo to hunt from a treestand. I hunt from a treestand dressed in full body orange and the deer just mosey on by anyway. They could not be more oblivious to me.

DzrtRat · « **Reply #1 on:** October 20, 2003, 11:40:53 AM »

Quote

Man! These bowhunters are bona fide kooks! Take camouflage for example. They hunt on public land, standing still in treestands, and not wearing so much as a scrap of hunter orange. Sounds like a great way to get shot out of a tree.

You're right! It's very stupid of them to assume that deer don't climb trees! Some hunter is just sure to mistake any one of them for a deer sitting up there and shoot him/her dead! And even worse, what if some squirrel hunter mistook him for a world record class squirrel?!?!

Sorry pa'dner, the kooks are the ones that don't seem to have the brains to identify their target correctly.

~Rat

Sixgun · « **Reply #2 on:** October 20, 2003, 11:44:26 AM »

Yes, Bowhunters are a different type of animal. One that I was talking too one time was telling me about an elk he shot at. He never mentioned if it was a cow or a bull so at the end or the story I asked and he replied, I don't know, bowhunters don't worry about sex.

Even though I am older now I still worry about sex, what a peculiar group they are.

Sixgun

southern utah · « **Reply #3 on:** October 20, 2003, 01:03:11 PM »

If you worry to much about sex you probably won't see any animals........ :-D :-D

Out west all the muzzle loaders wear camo.....treestand?

? We would need to have trees first.

myronman3 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2003, 01:51:24 PM »

well to answer that (you obviously know already) you dont need camo. another marketing gimmick.
concerning kooks: what kind of a kook would use a handgun to hunt with instead of a rifle? the same kind of kook that would use an ineffective weapon like a bow to try to kill a deer. :wink:

kciH · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2003, 10:17:12 PM »

I'd suggest you wise up and support bowhunters, no matter what they wear for hunting clothes, or how foolish it seems to you from a gun-hunter point of view. You will NEVER find a group more dedicated to hunting rights than bowhunters. This is a game of "hang together or hang individually". There is no room for this garbage. You like to hunt with a handgun, they like to hunt with a bow. We all like to hunt. If you needed to get within 30yds with your TC, you would use every advantage available.

Tony · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2003, 12:42:32 AM »

kciH,
I have to agree with you that all of us need to stick together instead of trying to put down one kind of hunter down because of the paticular weapon he or she decides to use. I will say as far as bowhunting goes, myself I find it to be the most challenging form of hunting I have ever tried.

Tony

Questor · « **Reply #7 on:** October 21, 2003, 02:21:23 AM »

That was my point, Kcih. I do in fact need to get within 30 yards with my Contender. Usually closer, just like a bowhunter. Here in the east, most rifle and shotgun hunters typically need to get that close too. Yet we have no disadvantage in using blaze orange while hunting from a treestand.

I'm calling the use of full camo in a treestand a scam, and a dangerous scam at that. Every couple of years a bow hunter gets shot out of a tree around here, typically by a small game hunter. I've been shot at three times (once with a .357 magnum handgun, once with a .22 rifle, and once with a shotgun). The shooters were apologetic afterward. Some rural folks around here refuse to go into their yards during the fall without some blaze orange attire. People lose horses here to incompetent boobs who mistake the horses for deer. Last year a horse was shot out from under its rider within 20 miles of my house by a deer hunter who mistook it for a deer. Such is the quality of hunters afield. If you're hunting in a treestand, it makes no sense to wear camo to the exclusion of blaze orange.

This point has nothing to do with committment to hunting rights, but to commitment to staying alive.

Questor · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2003, 02:23:33 AM »

I might add that the reason I've quit hunting during the gun season is the gross and frightening incompetence of so many deer hunters on the public lands of Minnesota.

W · « **Reply #9 on:** October 21, 2003, 02:52:53 AM »

I deer hunt on state land here in N.Y. which is one of the most crowded hunting areas in the country. There are probably more hunters per square mile than deer. You have a better chance of getting hurt or killed while using your tree stand than you do getting shot by another hunter. And N.Y. does not have an hunter orange requiremement. There is always the exception but 99% of the hunters I meet are very responsible and friendly guys. I wear orange because I think it's the wise thing to do, but there are alot of guys that hunt in full camo during the rifle season.
I have never felt unsafe on state land, the only reason to quit hunting state land is becasue of the lack of deer sighting. Lets not give the anti's any ideas that public land hunters might be unsave.

Sixgun · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2003, 03:35:16 AM »

When I lived in Washington, state, I quit gun hunting because it was dangerous. I took up archery(then I didn't have to worry about sex!) which in the Blue Mountains was in late December and early January, for deer and elk, either sex. I never got one but I saw literely saw thousands of elk. Big herds that were migrating to warmer climates.

When I got out of the Air Force and moved back to Idaho, I started having to worry about sex again when I went rifle hunting because there are very few big game huints in Idaho where you can shoot animal without worrying about sex, before you shoot. One of my pet peeves is how can someone shoot a man when before they shoot they have to know the sex of the animal before they shoot.

I am now in a position to do something about it. A couple of years ago three of my sons and I were sitting on a high ridge in southern Idaho. The hunt was for does only and the terrain was steep hills covered with sagebrush. All of a sudden it sounded like Viet Nam again. We all hit the dirt and the fireing stopped. I lifted my head and it started again. I sent a couple of rounds off, just to let them know we were not deer. I belly crawled over the ridge and there were a bunch of guys on 4 wheelers on the other side looking up at us. They were looking at us through their rifle scopes so I put one right in the middle of them. They got on their 4 wheelers and took off.

I found their camp the next day and asked who owned the 4 wheelers. I told them that they were shooting at me and then I gave them all a ticket. Somewhere in there I gave them a lecture on not shooting until they knew what they were shooting at. They were 600 yards from us looking at us through rifle scopes and thought our heads were deer heads and they figured if they all shot they might get something. Well they did, they all got fines in the 750 to 1000 dollar range and lost their hunting privledges for several years.

It dosen't matter what a person is wearing. There is no excuse for shooting a man or his horse or cow or anything else. You have to identify the target before you shoot.

Sixgun

Questor · « **Reply #11 on:** October 21, 2003, 03:40:19 AM »

The antis already have all the ideas they need to be effective. What we need to do is improve from within, continually. Groupthink hurts us as much as any influence outside the sport. Every time I raise a provocative issue like this I get the same kind of response. Here's the formula: Somebody changes the subject, immediately states how saintly hunters are, and then says that if we don't stick together we'll perish as a class. Try it yourself. It's the same response every single time.

I was recently aghast at how proud Nebraska was that they had an all time low number of hunter fatalities. It was on the order of about 20 or 30 in one year. This could be improved upon considerably. And this is a state that boasts how much blaze orange requirements have improved hunter safety during the past thirty years.

Old Cane · « **Reply #12 on:** October 21, 2003, 04:45:01 AM »

Great post, Sixgun. I wish all game protectors did their jobs like you. Too bad you couldn't do more to these idiots. Some around here have Barney Fife syndrome and only hassle people that are legal and concerned. The beer can shooter that decide to take a shot and wound deer with a 22 derringer never seem to get caught. I get hassled every year on my own land. If I just shot at bushes moving I'd have 3 game wardens mounted over the fireplace now.

Mikey · « **Reply #13 on:** October 21, 2003, 05:18:03 AM »

Fellas: the concern over getting our butts shot off in the woods during hunting season is far to great to trivialize it in any way at all and I am very proud of how seriously you folks have taken up this issue. I agree with many of you on your points and concerns. I also agree that every time a concern like this is raised we seem to head to the same repository of cliches and I think we might need to develop a stronger approach to hunter's safety and the media criticism we face when hunting accidents happen.

I am all too well aware that NY, and many other states, do not have a blaze orange requirement but I wear it anyway. Sometimes it doesn't matter what you wear - I have been shot at and 'drawn down on' a bunch of times, usually going to or from the stand or hunting site and even while wearing orange. I have heard the excuse - sorry, I couldn't tell you were wearing orange, it's still dark (so why did you take the shot buttsniff) or I thought I saw something move (ain't ya glad it wasn't your son, brother or hunting buddy) or the best one is - this is my first time hunting here (so how did you get past my posted signs?). The idjit I just loved was the guy who had a flashlight taped to the bottom of his shotgun barrel while sitting right beneath one of my posted signs, and arrogance isn't the least of thier problems.

There are a lot of pure idiots out there who use hunting season as an excuse for doing whatever they think they can get away with, as though hunting season itself is an excuse or reason for abject stupidity and a lack of common sense. I just can't quite figure out how some of these people either get hunting licenses, manage to have survived long enough to hunt or manage to make it through life at all. They are like peta people.

I'll be honest, I just do not know what the hay we, as a group of hunters, can do to correct some of this bad behavior or wisen up hunters to the need to have a more intelligent and common sense approach to the dangers inherent in hunting and being afield during hunting season. I try and set the example and make dang certain that anyone who hunts with me follows my rules. You can talk yourself blue in the face trying to get people to understand and you can even take the type of action the Sixgunner did when he was in Idaho, if you are authorized to do that, but it sure seems to go against immeasurable odds to try and correct any of it , even in your own neighborhood.

I just wish everybody well and great success this season, and all without having to face the dangers we've talked about here. I'm hoping everyone comes back with some great stories about excellent hunts, great shots, fabulous game harvests and the kind of hunter's camp wild game dinners that make it all worthwhile. Stay safe, shoot straight and hunt well. Mikey.

Questor · « **Reply #14 on:** October 21, 2003, 06:23:55 AM »

Well put, Mikey. I've been too venomous here, and I apologize for it. What made me mad is reflecting on deer hunting this year. I realized that I had quit doing it because I was afraid to do it. It was the few jerks that drove me out. I'd been looking at the other options, like muzzleloading and archery. I picked archery because the season is longer and because it's basically the same as handgun hunting except for the technical details of the thing you shoot with.

Perhaps the pleasant irony in this is that we have an expanding deer season that is being occupied by people who not only value the added challenge of bow hunting, but also got tired of the alternatives and needed to go find something else to do.

SingleShotShorty · « **Reply #15 on:** October 21, 2003, 06:46:17 AM »

Hey wait a minute, I'm a bowhunter and have been for over 35 years and believe me we are not kook's. As for the Hunter Orange it is just not required for bowhunters mainly because the average shot a bowhunter takes is 20 yards and under and believe me a bowhunter is one of the safest hunters in the woods. The don't shoot at movement or something they think might be a deer. We have to make sure of our target because of the limited effective range of our equipment . At 20 yards or so anyone can tell a camo clad hunter from a deer because a bowhunter needs a clear shot and will not shoot through brush, limbs, or anything that may obstruct the arrows flight. I Bowhunt mainly for these reasons and the quite solitude of the woods. Trust me I have never met a kook Bowhunter but I sure have met some gun hunters that I would not go in the woods with. Just one Hunters Opinion.

WD45 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 21, 2003, 07:01:10 AM »

I have had to quit hunting more than one place due to people that were NOT supposed to be there. As has been stated there are so many people that pay NO attention to signs and relativly few of these people get caught.
I have had to tell more than one farmer about a cow found shot by some idiot and one of those was with a BOW ! These type of people not only are dangerous but give hunters a bad name and cause a great deal of private land to be closed to respectable hunters. :x
I always wear some hunter orange even bird hunting with people relatively close. It makes it easier to keep tabs on the guys you are with expecially in heavy brush. I have also gound no particular need for a sniper suit type camo either. I have seen and been just as close to deer with blue jeans and flanel shirt while squirrel hunting and had not taken a bath in some witches brew 1st either. hunters did not know they had to look like a tree in order to kill deer until somebody told them. :shock:

Sixgun · « **Reply #17 on:** October 21, 2003, 07:07:20 AM »

Nobody here is calling anyone a kook here, unless you consider that we all must be kooks to get up before light, eat a fast light breakfast, go out in the numbing cold, walk our butts off, get shot at, put a sneak on an animal crawling through thorns or mud or snow, get to shoot it(if your lucky), then get you hands and clothes all bloody, carry a heavy dead animal miles, and at the end of the day your so tired that you wonder if you can do it again tomorrow.

Most of us do this without any modern conviences like plumbing and electricity. We leave our sweet wifes behind and do all of the cooking and dishwashing, over a camp stove.

We spend all of our extra money to do this and sometimes put the family in debt to do it.

And this is just one scenario. Some are better and some are worse but they all are carried out by kooks.

No wonder the antis want to do away with us. They can't understand us, heck, we can't even understand us.

But it sure is fun and I hope I can keep doing it til I get all of my big game goals completed. I still want to get one of everything and those that I got I want to go and get one more. I've never been to Alaska and hunted any of those animals up there and I want to go to Africa too.

It just never ends. I guess I am a kook

Sixgun

Old Cane · « **Reply #18 on:** October 21, 2003, 07:28:51 AM »

I must really be a kook. I do all my hunting 2-300 yards from the house. I usually drop one right beside the trail they cross on from a ground blind. I just drive the truck over, load 'em up and go hang them in the barn to dress out.

Is that just wrong? :grin:

Sixgun · « **Reply #19 on:** October 21, 2003, 07:36:48 AM »

Yep, its wrong! You are hereby declared a disgrace to the hunting brotherhood.

Sixgun

Old Cane · « **Reply #20 on:** October 21, 2003, 07:43:51 AM »

I hang my head in shame as I ride off into the sunset....... :cry:

WD45 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 21, 2003, 08:12:16 AM »

This world is just one big insane assylum .... ran by the INMATES

1GLOCK · « **Reply #22 on:** October 21, 2003, 08:18:08 AM »

I think that when we all start using hunter orange as the only means of identification of out targets we are all in a lot of trouble!! If anyone shoots or shoots at a man dressed in camo, orange or any other color for that matter they should be banned from the sport for life period!! No excuses! I think that using ANY color as a means of positive identification is wrong. As for bow hunters being a different breed, yeah, they are. They like to get up close and personal with there game and it takes 10 times the skill to be a successful bow hunter than a rifle hunter that can reach out 300 yards easily instead of 30. We should all respect our fellow hunters and support them as we hope they would support us. I am not a bow hunter but Im behind them 100%.

Sixgun · « **Reply #23 on:** October 21, 2003, 08:26:57 AM »

1Glock, Go to the head of the class.

If you can't tell the difference between a man and a deer you shouldn't be hunting. This is why some stated so not require the use of hunter orange. I do wear it and encourage others to do so, but my oponion is much like yours.

I think anyone who shoots at something he thought was a deer and kills a man has committed a feloney and should be delt with as such. Saddley, it is still looked at like just an accident.

Sixgun

1GLOCK · « **Reply #24 on:** October 21, 2003, 08:41:11 AM »

Accident?
Now theres an interesting term. In my oppinion theres no such thing, only incompetence. If you really think about anything we call an accident could be traced directly to someones incompetence. I think the word was invented so that we could all refuse to take resposibility for our actions thus avoiding the consequences.

Questor · « **Reply #25 on:** October 21, 2003, 09:08:32 AM »

1Glock:

The cops really do classify these as accidents. The last bow hunter that was shot out of a tree in my area was hit at close range with a shotgun blast fired by a small game hunter. The bow hunter fell out of the tree and was groaning until he died. The only reason the killer was charged is because he left the scene without telling anyone. An investigation and a witness helped to identify him some weeks later. He was charged with manslaughter. The shooting itself was classified as an accident. Evidently, pointing a gun at a man isn't sufficient to get you into any serious trouble so long as you do it during hunting season. You actually have to aim deliberately and fire too.

Simultaneously, hunter safety classes are being prohibited in schools around the nation because schools are "zero tolerance safe zones". Nevermind that schools are the most natural place because they have the facilities and the audio visual equipment for such things.

Boy, am I ornery today!!!

1GLOCK · « **Reply #26 on:** October 21, 2003, 09:21:41 AM »

Oh I know the cops call them accidents but does that make them right?? You cant really believe that a hunter shooting another hunter is anything but incompetence. I know a lot of schools are not offering hunter safety courses anymore, thats another thing that really gets me. Since when is it up to the school system to raise our children to know how to be a good hunter?? Most "idiot" hunters didnt learn their bad habbits in a classroom they learned it with the people that took them out in the field after they took the hunters safety course. Lets face it, teachers in general (not all) learned how to teach the course from a book not from experience in the field.

Old Cane · « **Reply #27 on:** October 21, 2003, 09:24:15 AM »

1Glock, I think you now have 2 points. I agree. I get no points for that.

W · « **Reply #28 on:** October 21, 2003, 09:39:05 AM »

On the subject of hunter orange, it's not so much that I might mistake a hunter for a deer but when I'm still hunting and look ahead say 500yds and see a hunter on the other ridge, then I know to go a different direction. This way I don't disturb his area and I don't waste my time hunting that area. I also know if a deer comes by between us I know there's another hunter out there. Now if that guy is in full camo I won't see him or know he's out there and I might take a shot at the deer without ever knowing the other hunter was beyond the target. Also I like to let them know that I'm out there too.

Questor · « **Reply #29 on:** October 21, 2003, 10:12:20 AM »

That's right, Warren. My most extreme case of this was when my son and I were squirrel hunting and we sat beneath a tree, and a bow hunter was in a treestand about 40 yards away. We didn't see him until we happened to spot him after sitting about five minutes, and for some reason he didn't signal us when we came and sat down. Had he been wearing orange, we would have seen him 200 yards before we got to the edge of the woods. I regularly walk right past bowhunters while hunting. If they were wearing orange, I'd avoid them. But since I can't see them, I just spoil some time for both of us. Actually, I should say that his negligence in failing to signal his presence with blaze orange is wasting my time in the woods.