New handi ultra varmint 204- about like I figured.

[doninva]

Took the ultra varmint 204 out today. Had some hand loads with varmint nightmare bullets and 25. 6 and 26.4 grains of Benchmark. Cleaned the gun after every 5-10 shots. Trigger was a little better than I figured it would be, but groups were dismal. Got a lot of vertical stringing with the 25.6 loads, about 5". The 26.4 loads would group 2 and then open up to about 3". I am going to try some 26.4 grain loads and seat the bullets out some. If I can't get any better groups the gun will be for sale. I may try some different powder and bullets but don't have any right now. I'm a little bummed but I guess I shouldn't have expected any better, without a lot of work. I was shooting off sand bags so the gun was not on anything hard. I have had a few encores and this made a lot of difference. I guess a bolt gun would have been a better choice but I didn't have enough money at the time. Don

[LONGTOM]

Most of us have had that problem in the past.
I tend to try some factory ammo first in a new gun to see what it likes before I work up a load.
This gives me some insight as to what might work best before I start messing with it.
I have some that shoots so good with factory that I don't even try to equal them.
Some of the ammo being offered today is really hard to beat.
Most 204s seem to shoot the Hornaday 32gr V MAX ammo pretty well.
I would try a few of them to see how it shoots and go from there.


LONGTOM

[c1skout]

  Lotsa info in the FAQ's. Sounds like your barrel was heating up with all that vertical stringing. Make sure you put that front sandbag under the hinge, not the forearm.

[trotterlg]

I have heard of very few people who can get those bullets to shoot.  I would start with some know good bullets and see how they do, then work on the VN bullets.  Larry

[quickdtoo]

I don't see how you can expect to luck into a good load by trying only two loads, I work em up in ½gr increments from start to Max, 3 shots each, many, many, many times, I've gone from 2" groups to ½" groups and back again with just a ½gr change, expecting to have a good load with one or two random loads involves a lot of luck. Quit cleaning it, H&Rs more often than not shoot best dirty, each time you clean it, you're cleaning the accuracy right out of it.  I'd check the forend fit per the FAQs and work on the Handi Basics 101 also, it's the little things that make a BIG difference in how H&Rs shoot.  

Tim

[LONGTOM]

Not trying to be a smart a&& but that is why I suggest you try a few factory loads.
You need to start with a known factor to see how it shoots.
It may be the rifle or it might be the load.
Most will shoot factory ammo reasonably well and that will give you a guideline to judge your load work by.
If it does the same thing with factory than it is reasonable to believe that the problem is with the rifle.
If it shoot descent than I would be looking at my loads.
Just a suggestion.


LONGTOM

[Preacherman]

I have one that likes 32gr vmax with a near max load of H322 i also put a frige magnet under the end of the forearm did an 1\2 inch 3 shot group the last time i had it out. Tried Hornady factory ammo did not like it at all.
Just be patient it likes something.
Preacherman

[LONGTOM]

Preacherman:
Strange how some like a certain ammo and another one hates it.
I have three 204s and they all love the 32 factory.
My friend has one also with the same results yet yours didn't like them as factory but did in a hand load.
Just shows that no two are always alike.


LONGTOM

[quickdtoo]

Mine never liked any factory ammo I shot in it, Remington, Hornady, Winchester and HSM all shot 1½-2" groups, but a max load of BL-C2 under a 40gr Vmax using Hodgdon data shoots under an inch. 

Tim

[doninva]

Thanks guys, I loaded some more tonight and will try them tomorrow. I have a new  Marlin XL7 to shoot in. I tried a group of 40 gr. factory V-maxs, not to good. I realize I may have to change powder and bullets. I refuse to buy a box of any factory loads. I started reloading again just because of the factory prices. Thanks again, Don

[doninva]

I went to the range today. I stopped and got a plastic washer and an O rings as suggested. I installed the washer and it wasn't enough to get the barrel floated so I put the O ring in it also. Stringing problem gone. I don't think the gun likes the varmint nightmares or the Benchmark powder but at a 100 yards, I can get about 2" now. Time for some different loads. Thanks for all the advise, Don

[briannmilewis]

Put simply, Handis usually shoot much better with dirty barrels.

Put 50-100 rounds thru it before you expect to dial in the accuracy.

Once you have the accuracy dialed in, DO NOT clean the barrel until the accuracy starts to fail.

Once you have done that one thorough cleaning, it may take you 10-20 rounds to get the accuracy back.

This Handi attribute has been gone over many times in the forum, it sounds counter-intuitive but it appears to be a common Handi truth.

My Hornet had 100+ rounds before it got very accurate with my handloads, and like Tim says, it may take dozens of variations in powder charge and bullet weight before something gets your attention. Working up loads became half the fun for me. Good luck.

[PHATINJUN]

Listen to what gets said here and you will have the 204 shooting clover leafs at 100 mine will do it easy but I ain't that good of a shot. I use both the 34gr DogTowns and the 32gr V's. If you get it shooting under 1" and you think you got the load but think it's gonna take more shooting to break it in .Look up the barrel polish trick on here .There are only a couple of bbl that I have that I did not polish in one form or another. Kurt

[doninva]

I put a different stock set and scope on the rifle and it is much lighter and I like the scope. I got some 39 grain Sierras and some 32 V-max bullets. I had never seen a bullet keyhole before. I couldn't get the 39's to hit the target at 100 yards after zeroing the scope at 25 yards with some 34 grain varmint nightmares, so I moved the target back to 25 yards and got a PERFECT keyhole. It looked like you pushed the bullet sideways thru the target. I got the few 32 grain V-max bullets to shot about 2" so I'm seeing a new rifle in my future. I'm going to load about 40 rounds with different charges of Benchmark and BLC(2) tonight with the 32 V-max's. If I don't get anything going tomorrow, I'm not wasting any more money on this rifle. I've got about 120.00 in trying to get it to shoot now. Don

[wreckhog]

Maybe the factory can make it right?

[Spanky]

I doubt there's anything wrong with the rifle.
Shoot it with some factory ammo.



Spanky

[doninva]

Dude, I tried some factory Hornady 40 grain and they wouldn't even hit the target. I've loaded rifle shells for about 20 rifles that shot from 1.5 inches to almost one hole. I don't think there is anything magic about factory loads. If you will pay for the factory shells if they won't shoot, I'll go pick up a few boxes tomorrow. Let me know. Don

[Spanky]

How did it shoot before you changed the stock set and scope?




Spanky

[quickdtoo]

I don't see how you can expect to luck into a good load by trying only two loads, I work em up in ½gr increments from start to Max, 3 shots each, many, many, many times, I've gone from 2" groups to ½" groups and back again with just a ½gr change, expecting to have a good load with one or two random loads involves a lot of luck. Quit cleaning it, H&Rs more often than not shoot best dirty, each time you clean it, you're cleaning the accuracy right out of it.  I'd check the forend fit per the FAQs and work on the Handi Basics 101 also, it's the little things that make a BIG difference in how H&Rs shoot.  

Tim

[possum6]

I wish I could have got by with $120 trying to find out what mine liked. I quit keeping track of how much $$ I spent but I did enjoy finding the " recipe ".

[Joe S.]

You guys are nuts!! I can't imagine complaining about 2" groups. Lol. I'm happy to hit a paper plate. 

[Fred M]

doninva.
Good god, what a disaster. I agree that a factory load in your case is not any better than your hand loads. I rarely shoot factory load with any of my rifles. If the rifle shoots that bad you got a lot more than ammo trouble. With a varmint rifle like a 204, it should shoot 3 shots into 3/8" at 100 yards, never mind 2", and 3/8" is not earth shaking either but it qualifys for varmint shooting.

What good id a 400yrd varmint rifle if you can't hit a gopher at 50yrds

1. A funnel shaped bore (slug it) Loose dimension in front.
2. All sorts of loose joints
3 Bad latch fit with oil on latch shelve.
4 Too soft a latch spring
5 Poor fit of barrel to standing breech.
6 loose forearm fit to frame
7. Poor fore arm bedding.
 8 Poor trigger pull.

Fix all these point and your rifle may start to shoot better.
 

[torpedoman]

Dude, I tried some factory Hornady 40 grain and they wouldn't even hit the target. I've loaded rifle shells for about 20 rifles that shot from 1.5 inches to almost one hole. I don't think there is anything magic about factory loads. If you will pay for the factory shells if they won't shoot, I'll go pick up a few boxes tomorrow. Let me know. Don

The twist rate will not stabilize a 40 grain bullet. at least mine will not they pass thru target sideways at 25 yds.

[doninva]

The rifle shots no better or worse than when I had the other stock set on it. I used the washer and o ring under the forearm, which helped more than anything I've tried. The trigger is a little stout but has no creep and breaks clean. I started with a scope that was suspect so I replaced it with a new one. I have only tried two powders, Benchmark and BLC(2) as I can't justify buying any more to try right now. I started with the Varmint Nightmare bullets, which are cheap, but so far nothing has shot any better or worse. I got a box of the Sierra 39 grain and a box of the Hornady 32 V-max. The 39 grain shot just like the factory 40 grain loads, barley able to keep them on target and keyholed. The 32 V-max shot resonable but I only loaded 8 to take with me to the range. I have polished the bore with JB bore cleaner, some I've had for about 20 years. I have shot the gun off sand bags pulled all the way back to the action. This is great but not practical when hunting with shooting sticks. I have tried everything but a witch doctor and praying over the gun. I have owned a few varmint rifles in the last 40 years. Most I've had built but had a few factory guns. I have always been able to get under an inch with all of them with reloading  and or glass bedding them. I am not a great shot but have made a few kills at 300 to 400 yards on ground hogs. This rifle is just kicking my a#@ like no other gun I've owned. I am honestly out of ways to go. I really don't want it to beat me but how much money do you drop in a 300.00 rifle before you throw in the towel. I loaded two more loads with the 32 V-maxes to take to the range tomorrow.  Don

[quickdtoo]

I loaded two more loads with the 32 V-maxes to take to the range tomorrow.  Don

Still working with random loads?   

Tim

[d_hiker]

Another question to ask is, Did you bed the scope rail to your receiver?  Did you mount the scope rail or are you using it as you got it?  I have had two Handis that had loose scope rails, I didn't notice it until I was shooting factory loads all over the place.  The scope didn't wiggle, but once I bedded the scope rail, I started to get groups instead of patterrns.  You would have thought I would have learned after the first one.  Now I always bed and remount a scope rail that comes on a barrel.  That is one simple thing I can do that cost me almost nothing and can eliminate a lot of frustration.

[SM Bob]

This rifle is just kicking my a#@ like no other gun I've owned. I am honestly out of ways to go. I really don't want it to beat me but how much money do you drop in a 300.00 rifle before you throw in the towel. I loaded two more loads with the 32 V-maxes to take to the range tomorrow.  Don

I hate to sound like a broken record here, but you are a long ways "from running out of ways to go".
I have a .223 heavy barrel that gave me some trouble at first. Some of the things that helped me
were: RTV bedding the forend per the FAQ's. The washer trick works for some people. It did
absolutely nothing for me. A good scope. After chasing my tail with a couple of cheap Bushnell's
and Trashco's I ended up with a Mueller APV. I also got a set of Burris Zee Signature medium rings.
The good scope and rings shrunk my groups 50%. I also made shure my latch was clean and dry.
I did a trigger job per the FAQ's. After I took care of the basics on the rifle I started working on
some loads with a few different powders and bullets. I ended up with a 55gr Sierra Spitzer
over a low level charge of BLC2 and was able to consistantly get groups well under 1 inch at 100 yards.
Seating depth of your bullet can make a difference too. There is a lot of things you can still do.
Also, are you resting on the hinge and not the forearm when you are shooting? It makes a big
difference. Read the FAQ's and try some of the stuff out. A lot of good info there and some of it
only costs a couple of bucks. The good news is you can do it yourself. Good luck and don't get
discouraged.

                                      Robert


                                          

[possum6]

I like that witch doctor and praying thing myself Sorry couldn't help myself. These gun's will drive you nut's if you let them. I used to just hunt with them and still do, but I relocated to a place where I can shoot all I want and not bother anybody. That's when the Handi's started getting to me, But thank's to this forum and a few handload's and they do come around. Don't give up on it, if youv'e got the patiance. Good luck!!

[doninva]

Got her shooting about 2" with 30.3 grains of BLC(2) and zeroed today. I'll shot it till I can get enough money to replace the rifle. If anyone wants a challange, let me know, she's for sale. Don

[blind ear]

Did you ever slug both ends of the bore? The keyholes raise lotsa questions. I have had 2 rifles that had to be cut off and recrouned due to rideing in a pickup with the muzzle in the carpet. Went from real good to bad and back to real good. didn't take much wear to mess them up. eddie