Author Topic: Railroads (Read 1792 times)

Sourdough · « **on:** November 17, 2009, 02:14:45 PM »

I heard something last night on the radio that obama wants to spend more money on rail roads than on highways. Since the highways are packed, and air traffic is pretty saturated, it only leaves rail to get people around more effectively. obama wants to use bullet trains, like they have in Europe and Japan. That is a good idea, but look at Amtrak, another failed government project.

The government has not even run rails to Alaska. We were promised in 1958 rail service to the lower 48. Hasn't happened yet.

Now where is he going to get the money to run all new rails for a bullet train? The existing rails are not adequate for a train going that fast. They are only maintained for slow moving freight trains, and freight takes priority. That is the problem with Amtrak. Amtrak trains keep getting put on sidings to wait for freight trains to go past. I sat on a siding last February for over three hours waiting for a slow moving freight train to clear the tracks.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2009, 02:21:53 PM »

high speed rail all across the nation is a pipe dream will never happen in our or our childrens lifetime. it would cost more money than all the health care and other obama bills combined.

Questor · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2009, 02:29:55 PM »

Now there's a harebrained idea if ever there was one. We had a good railroad system for decades. The minute something better came along, the railroads started to feel the pressure and now they only haul freight.

If it's only been a little over 50 years since they promised rails to Alaska, maybe it's just too early to expect instant gratification. Any sooner than this and it would have been too impulsive.

Swampman · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2009, 02:47:40 PM »

I hope the trains come back. They are green & they are smart. We don't need people trains though.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2009, 02:52:36 PM »

Under our fine governorturnbuckle we got light rail. Coming around at the same time was a push for looser concealed carry laws here. The liberals were big supporters of the train to nowhere (light rail) and opposed to to the looseing of concealed carry laws. The liberal scum as crying and whining about the wild west in Minnesota and how may people would be klled. Well theirtrain t nowhere hase killed about a dozen peolpe since and conceald carry none.

rockbilly · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2009, 03:08:48 PM »

I hate to say I agree with Yamama on anything, but a good railroad system would be a great asset to this country. The rail system in Europe is very effective and provides quick, inexpensive transportation for the masses, it could do the same for us.

If used a good railroad would reduce the dependence on foreign oil to the point that Saudi may be asking us for a loan…………..wouldn’t that be great?

The Hermit · « **Reply #6 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:19:10 PM »

It will happen I think. Buffet just bought Burlington Northen RR. Hmmm. Buffet supported Obama. Ben to the White House.
Naw... it's just a coincidence Right?

The Hermit

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:32:33 PM »

no doubt that we need it and no doubt no other mode of transportation has proven itself capable of addressing the concerns of fuel usage and congestion on the highway systems.

yet the government started to abandon the railroads in the late fifties and put all the money on the airlines. big mistake and now their just is no way they will ever recover to be able to implement what is needed.

mirage1988 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:41:18 PM »

The gov't is using every excuse they can find to take over all of the major industries in America. so far they have taken over the farmers, the bankers, automakers, and healthcare. Next is the railroads, the airlines, manufacturing and the trucking industry. When will americans wake up?

gypsyman · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2009, 05:54:41 PM »

Here's what happens when you've got too much time to think. Especially when your driving. If you want a high speed rail system for passenger travel, why not do this. This country already has an excellent highway system between the major city's. Why not build an elevated monorail system in the median's of the expressway's and turnpike's. Ever been to Disneyworld? Can get around there real easy on the monorail's. And we've already got the bridge's and overpass's built over the rivers and depressions. 'Course what the heck do I know? gypsyman

Sourdough · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2009, 07:15:54 PM »

Gypsyman: I have often wondered the same. It would be easy to run a monorail along with the interstate system. With non stop service between major cities, like the airlines. In my view they don't need to be bullet trains, just faster than cars. The main thing is that you don't have to drive, you can sleep, or just sight see along the way. Get off spend the night then continue the next day if you want. Since you are not driving, no stress. Bad weather, so what. Two monorails side by side, one going east and one going west. Then One going north, one going south. Along every major interstate. I've been thinking about that ever since I first saw the Monorail at Disney World in 1973. Pasenger service needs to be an entirely separate system.

blind ear · « **Reply #11 on:** November 17, 2009, 10:21:05 PM »

Railroads were defunded and price regulated to the point that they couldn't modernize enough to maintain an efficent system that could deliver goods on a time critical basis. Rail can only handle bulk nonperishible freight that doesn't have to be there right now.

The limiting of the railroads increased the need for truck transport. More money spent on the interstate system which was copied after Germany's from WWII. Germany has developed thier rail system more than the US.

The dependence on Truck transport increased manufactureing of steel and aluminum products. JB HUnt and Snyder trucking and others have both gone bankrupt more than the government set limits on bankruptcy because that would have broken International Truck manufactureing, Cummins engine manufactureing, other like producers and related support manufacturers.It kept the manufactureing base going.

The biggest consumption the interstate system supported was oil; fuels, rubber products and industrial chemicals.

When the banking industry was deregulated the banks outgrew the oil companies, though the ownership is probably indestinguishable. Banks could make a greater return on investment by manufactureing overseas and selling here,( indericectly through more profitability of thier borrowers).

Congress will create laws that support what ever money wants. Always has, always will, because the population is too easily lead.

eddiegjr

williamlayton · « **Reply #12 on:** November 17, 2009, 11:11:44 PM »

Not debuking anything on rail---I like the idea. All it takes is money.
I like the rail idea for shorter and more compact trips especially. They benefit metro ares very well.
Rail has a place---let's just not get carried away with it and start assuming it is an end to all human problems.
Blessings

bearmgc · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2009, 05:51:56 AM »

Warren Buffet, last week, just bought the largest system of railroad in the US. He paid a hefty sum. He was laughed at by other investers, who thought it was fool's price to pay for a system, long needing repairs and uodates. Now Obama wants to throw money into the railroad system. Is there a connection? Buffet aint no fool...he is now a rail Baron.

Questor · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2009, 06:01:26 AM »

I think the big question about rail is cost effectiveness. It costs a fortune to operate a rail system, and if travellers don't want to use it, then it's just wasted money.

We have light rail in Minneapolis. It's extremely expensive per passenger mile, and it cannot be profitable at any price most passengers realistically will pay.

I like rail as a concept, but if it can't pay for itself, then it's not a viable business venture. I also do not believe that taxpayers should have to pay for these boondoggles.

bearmgc · « **Reply #15 on:** November 18, 2009, 06:08:10 AM »

I think the biggest profit will come from hauling primarily freight, with the idea that cap and trade laws will be enacted. That puts the trucking industry under water, especially since only some of the expenses can be passed on to the consumer in the face of a weak dollar. Commuter service can also figure into this if cap and trade goes through, as every American won't immediately be able to afford electic cars, nor will they be viable for long distance commutes for awhile, shell games notwithstanding.

blind ear · « **Reply #16 on:** November 18, 2009, 06:19:43 AM »

If the costs of commuter auto travel is made high enough train travel could look better.

Questor · « **Reply #17 on:** November 18, 2009, 06:23:43 AM »

How do you make something that's inherently inexpensive into something expensive?

blind ear · « **Reply #18 on:** November 18, 2009, 06:43:21 AM »

Taxes

bearmgc · « **Reply #19 on:** November 18, 2009, 06:56:59 AM »

So talk about shell games. Obama's "Cash for Clunkers" program. What did it accomplish? More people went into debt to buy "fuel efficient" new cars, with the implied belief that gasoline or hybrid cars will be still viable transportation in 6-10 years. They turned in cars and trucks, that probably were still functioning and repairable, many that the consumer himself could maintain. "Clunkers" also had the added value of being used for parts. So car companies got some revenue. People got some hope, but hope be damned when unemployment increases, and there's still a car payment to be made. So cap and trade goes through, and the cost of driving a nonelectric car doubles, conservatively. And if this happens within 10 years, some folks are still making car payments on cars they can't use. Those that aren't can't sell what they have. Does this sound like the old housing bubble? It should, cause it was just that. Another bubble. Short term profits, long term woes.
Now watch for the next bubble. Each time, working Americans become poorer. Each time another excuse to mandate funds from who, to who?

anweis · « **Reply #20 on:** November 18, 2009, 07:53:10 AM »

Quote from: Sourdough on November 17, 2009, 07:15:54 PM

Two monorails side by side, one going east and one going west. Then One going north, one going south. Along every major interstate. I've been thinking about that ever since I first saw the Monorail at Disney World in 1973. Pasenger service needs to be an entirely separate system.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. See, we can agree. And, monorail is not quite so expensive. It's actualy cheaper than roads, and railroads, and it can be built fast.

bearmgc · « **Reply #21 on:** November 18, 2009, 07:59:57 AM »

Especially if it makes Warren Buffet richer....unless the government re-appropriates the Railroad for itself, out of national security of course. You know, that redistribution thing. Those that don't remember history are doomed to repeat it. Ayn Rand is prolly flippin' biscuits in her grave.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 18, 2009, 08:58:45 AM »

buffet did not buy it because he wants to see more pasenger service he bought it because of the freight profits and he knows the obama gov. will subsidize even more than they do now the rebuilding of the infra structure for freight service. the passenger service now where it runs pays heavily to subsidize the lines they run over....just a sham as they have no interest in passenger service other than to get more of our tax dollars going into the golden parachutes of the CEO 's of Rail. Buffet smells money and he will get it at our expense.......all for the greater good of course.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 18, 2009, 09:07:53 AM »

one other thing to think about....eminent domain...how many here support that little law. to put in bullet trains will require the frequent use of that law to straighten out track curves and make straight runs into the cities they did that in europe france..germany and italy and yes japan. can you imagine the confiscation of major farmlands and homes to go from east to west coast.

Bn railroad has tried for years to appropriate a dedticated coal only right of way from nebraska and wyoming to texas they have to deal with some many landowners that will not sell or have been holding out for much higher dollars. the bn has tried like heck to get the states to use the eminent domain laws to get the right of way.. so far the politicians have not the courage to do it... why it will start riots in the streets.

so just think about how obama and his team will handle something like that if they get the chance. i will bet that the american people will not support such actions.

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 18, 2009, 09:11:04 AM »

long as it doesn t slowly take our national highway system to ruin..
its no secrete that part of the plan of these highways was to allow troops to be at any border in the usa in
short order.. now when this plan first came about ,,i doubt anyone even fathomed that helicopters would make this possible..but the masses who represent the potential power in this nation don t have helicopters..
jmo slim

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 18, 2009, 09:16:26 AM »

that was a lesson learned from all people Adolf Hitler who put in the AUTO BANN just for the fast deployment of Armies. Eishenhower saw the genius of his plans and adopted them and implemented the INTERSTATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM just for that reason. as a side benifit it was shown how it would improve commerce and just the daily lives of people that took 12 or 14 hours to travel 35-40 miles on roads of mud. so the sale was on and dang good logic as a military stand point and the people loved it.

anweis · « **Reply #26 on:** November 18, 2009, 09:28:35 AM »

Quote from: Questor on November 18, 2009, 06:23:43 AM

How do you make something that's inherently inexpensive into something expensive?

Questor: you don't really think that we will enjoy low gasoline costs forever?
It's not inexpensive: taxpayer money for roads, taxpayer money for armies to secure oil fields, lost productivity and health due to pollution, the future costs of possible climate change, all those add up to make the REAL cost of gasoline about $6.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #27 on:** November 18, 2009, 09:50:27 AM »

We gotta get the trains up and running and up to snuff so we can all get on board to get to the concentration camps. Greyhounds just wont look gestapo enough!

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 18, 2009, 10:19:02 AM »

lol..just think how many could be transported in the new style unit trains....thats what the railroads always wanted..one commodity (us) from point a to b nonstop just hook up to the emissions from a coal plant..and wa la efficency.

The Hermit · « **Reply #29 on:** November 18, 2009, 01:32:41 PM »

Warren Buffet told me yesterday over coffee, actually I was drinking coffee listening to him on tv, that the simple truth to the matter is, you can move tons of freight a lot cheaper by rail than by tractor trailer. Thats why you see truck type trailers loaded on rail cars. Speed is also there. The "salad express" leaves California in the night and arrives in NYC in a few days with stops for crew changes.
Rail is comming back. Burlington Northern is well run. Amtrac moves along the east coast and handles passengers well. Best way to travel to Florida is by rail.
I remember and miss the steamers on the old NY Central RR, but I don't think they will be back, which is too bad. As kids, we used to hitch a ride from Watertown NY to Syracuse and then back, if we did'nt get caught. My mom would have skinned me alive if she found out. Great fun for a couple boys.

The Hermit