Author Topic: Weight of Handi (Read 1091 times)

44 Man · « **on:** November 17, 2009, 03:19:31 AM »

My first Handi was my Topper 30-30, followed closely by a BC 45-70. I loved the nice light weight and quick handling of the Topper! Of course I expected the 45-70 to be a heavier rifle. Now I own a 7-08, and I felt that it was heavier than I liked so today I weighed it. 9 1/2 pounds with a leather sling and an old (and admittedly heavy) Bosch and Lomb 3x9 scope! I'm sure the scope weighs near a pound, but that still puts the rifle at 8 1/2 lbs by itself. I also weighed the Topper with a 4x tasco and it weigh's 7lb exactally.
The 7-08 has a heavier contour barrel so that is some of it. I'm sure the Ultra monte carlo stock also weighs a little more than the straight stock on the Topper. I can install a lighter scope on the 7-08, but is there any other way to get the weight down? The lightness and handiness of the Topper is what attracted me to the H&R's in the first place, but at the weight of this 7-08, I might better own a Remington model 7. I handled one of those the other day and was impressed with it's lightness and quick handling. I'm not a 'bolt action' guy, never liked them, but that gun was one I could be happy with. Can I do anything with the 7-08? I have a machinist friend that could turn the barrel down some, but I'm not sure I want to go that far, and that won't get me much either. 44 Man

Tallwalker · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2009, 03:46:15 AM »

Some Handi's can be heavier than they look. Laminated stocks are about half glue, and can be considerably heavier than just wood, or most synthetic stocks. That would be a good place to start along with finding a lighter scope. My two 30 caliber Handi rifles weigh 7 1/2-7 3/4 lbs scoped with plain wood stocks. Except for my Marlin .35 Remington, I have switched from Marlin lever guns to Ruger / Remington carbines ( Model 7, and Ultra light) because they are lighter, and handier. (I would switch the .35 if someone would get around to making a light bolt, or single shot .35 Remington besides the Remington custom shop) Remember that a scope will change the balance points of thes thin barreled guns though so handle a used one that is scoped before you go that route.

Default · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2009, 03:51:07 AM »

44,

Yeah you can drop some wt. I'm sure .. Now i havent weighed them to be 100% sure but my guess is the SB1 recievers are lighter then the newer and current SB2 ones ( your old topper was likely a SB1).. Obviously you cant use a SB1 on the '08 , But you can get synthetics like they are using on the newer SB1 357mag/44 mag rifles .. They are quite a bit lighter set of furniture and you can paint then to match your hunting cover ... On my 44 mag i weighed it the other day concerning another post about wt. and found it to be 6 pounds on my scale maybe a pinch over 6 , mine is a newer SB1 reciever with the factory synthetic forearm and a survivor stock (which weighes a little more then the original butt) I have a Bushnell Banner compact 3-9x40 and medium high aluminum rings, Now granted you could place the same furniture and scope i have on mine , on yours and it will probabaly weigh more then mine due to the barrel having more metal left then the larger diameter 44 mag barrel . And a SB2 reciever..

But the synthetic stocks and lighter scope is about all you can due to lighting the load , Less you want to remove some of the barrel length from the rifle.

Default

44 Man · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2009, 04:11:13 AM »

I have thought of cutting the barrel to 18" and drilling a couple of big holes in the butt stock also. It is the wood ultra style. I do have a lighter Simmons 3x9 scope on my AR, I could switch maybe. I thought this 7-08 would be my perfect 'go to' all around rifle. But not at this weight, I'll still be carrying the 30-30! 44 Man

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2009, 05:42:45 AM »

The lightest stocks are the synthetics, I dunno what the Survivor stock weighs, but both the new and old style syn stock sets weigh 1lb4oz, 5oz less than a standard pallet wood MC stock. SB2 frames weight a little less than the SB1 which weighs 23.1 oz, the SB2 weighs 22.8oz.

Tim

jlwilliams · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2009, 05:48:57 AM »

How about fluting the barrel? This came up in another related thread. It's something I'm likely to do (or have done) to my .308 Survivor.

I can't give any real numbers on weight reduction, but I do know that it's often done on fat barreled AR15s

Doublebass73 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 17, 2009, 06:06:11 AM »

Weight is definitely the reason I switched to the 45 Colt Carbine. It weighs in just over 6 lbs. and balances perfectly with no scope on it. It's very Handi to carry through the woods so I have no desire to scope it and add weight to it.

petemi · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2009, 06:35:13 AM »

I had a model 7 in 6mm. All I can say is don't go there. First of all the Ruger M77 MKII is a far better, more accurate and reliable than the Model Seven in a bolt gun. I had a large 6 point in front of me and hauled down with the Model 7, squeezed the trigger...nothing...saftey on?? No. Squeeze trigger again.....nothing....swing rifle upward.....BANG!!!! Scared the crap out of me. Took it home, went through it cleaning and dry lubeing. It had been cold. Put it in the freezer overnight. Took it out in the morning, loaded it, and BANG. It worked. Happily I took it back out deer hunting. Now I had a fat butterball year and a half old doe in front of me. Squeeze...felt like the safety is on......no, its off,.... raise the rifle upward and BANG. In the long run, I had a "gunsmith" got through it with no findings. I got rid of it. A couple of years later, Wayne, the guy from Florida I'm always talking about, ran through the same thing with a Remington 700 .30-06. These were not fail to fires. The firing pin never moved until the rifle changed position. Very spooky stuff.

I'll take my Handis any day over all of them.

Pete

Graycg · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2009, 06:55:06 AM »

Petemi,
You need to get your rifle back to the factory to have the trigger fixed or replaced before someone gets hurt. That is not, I repeat not in anyway shape or form normal for a remington trigger.

44 man,
I love the 7mm-08 round, but didn't buy the handi in that caliber for exactly the reason you have found. To me 7-08 is a carbine round, but the handi-clearly isn't in this chambering. I thought about synthetic stocks and chopping the barrel back and then figured those costs and decided that If I needed to hunt with the handi it would be in 30-30 or 45-70 and if I needed the 7-08 it would be in my thompson TCR.

good luck with your choices.

regards,
graycg

Default · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2009, 06:57:23 AM »

Pete,

Sounds like the ghosts of PETA freaks are huanting your Remingtons ( laughing)

That is just crazy , I have never heard of a rifle doing anything close to that , sept maybe a muzzleloader having a delayed charge detination.

Default

44 Man · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2009, 06:58:10 AM »

Well, as I said Pete, I'm not a 'bolt action' kind of guy anyway, thanks for the advice. I really like the 7-08 and it's capabilities, so I will likely invest the work into getting the weight down. All of the ideas help, thank you. I know there is no one 'magic' thing I can do, it will take work in many small areas to get her down. I'll likely put a synthetic (yuk!) stock on it (or drill out the wood stock), and cut the barrel down some. I have the Simmons scope I can mount (I'll put the bosh and lomb onto a 223 Handi that is coming) and I'll find some aluminum rings. If I can also find someone to flute the barrel reasonably, I'll do that also. I love the single shots and it's worth the effort to do a little alteration to make it a really great 'go to' gun. 44 Man

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** November 17, 2009, 07:40:12 AM »

My 30-30AI Handi in the new style syn stock set with 2-7x32 Nikon Prostaff scope mounted in medium Burris Sig Zee rings on a Leupold rail weighs 7lb10.5oz, the 7mm-08 should weigh about the same depending on the scope weight. I don't care for the old style syn stock, but I love the new style.

Tim

44 Man · « **Reply #12 on:** November 17, 2009, 08:45:14 AM »

Well, it looks like I need to go stock hunting first. I have to give a synthetic stock a try and see what that does. Then swap the scope when the .223 come in. I can't swap it now, we are in the middle of deer season! I haven't been able to get out yet, but I'm not going to put down the only gun I can rely on at the moment. (still having issues with my Topper 30-30) Thanks for all the input guys! 44 Man.

trotterlg · « **Reply #13 on:** November 17, 2009, 12:25:36 PM »

Rossi makes a youth 410 that comes in at 3.5 pounds, I am going to look and touch one to see what they do to save so much weight over a Handi. Even my Savage wieighs less than a regular Handi does. All I can think of is that the frame casting is really heavy for what it does. Larry

moorepower · « **Reply #14 on:** November 17, 2009, 01:07:42 PM »

I think the frame has alot of weight in some areas at the rear that don't need to be there. I bought a used .223 super light, and it does not feel as light as I thought it would. I have a Burris short mag 2x7 scope to put on it that is quite light. I also am going to use a titanium bolt to hold on the stock. It MAY have an aluminum front hand guard before it is over, as I don't know if the plastic is going to do it in the accuracy department.I called Wayne York and he is going to lighten the barrel from the inside out in the form of a 6mm X .223. The receiver might turn out to be a few ounces lighter when I am done, but it's diet will be in the back third and I won't be advertising what I did.

GatCat · « **Reply #15 on:** November 17, 2009, 08:09:29 PM »

Have you considered having the barrel diameter turned down to match the contour of the old Topper? Probably a good pound or more there, and with the lighter plastic stocks, weight would come right down. I weighed several scope bases and rings, the lightest ( and quite possibly the toughest ) was the Deat Nutz one piece unit. They look bulky, but being aluminum they are quite light. Match them up with a good, light scope, and you'll be set. As far as shortening the barrel, I think a rule of thumb is about an ounce or a bit more, per inch removed.
Mark

44 Man · « **Reply #16 on:** November 18, 2009, 02:42:49 AM »

My buddy Mikie can cut the barrel or turn it down, or both. When I have something like that done, he sputters that I'm not saving that much weight. True, but when you look at several different things to save weight, they all add up. I'm thinking a heavier barrel is usually more accurate than a lighter one, so cutting the barrel is still the way to go. I could cut 3" off and only loose about 100 fps. We'll have to see how it balances with a synthetic stock on it and decide from there. I have weaver scope bases on all my handi's, and I think they are pretty light. 44 Man

Graycg · « **Reply #17 on:** November 18, 2009, 10:17:32 AM »

I think that the plastic buttstock soaks up recoil a little better than pallet wood stock, I also think that if you whack 3 inches off the barrel, the plastic stock will balance a little better when shooting offhand. Whacking the barrel back seems much smarter than turning it down...I would think that if you turn the barrel down that you would need to have a pro straighten it. You are correct about the loss of velocity being minimal. Short stiff barrels tend to be more accurate, ask the benchrest crowd.

good luck.

regards,
Graycg

Airsporter · « **Reply #18 on:** November 18, 2009, 11:28:33 AM »

I agree with Graycg. With all due respect to petemi, my go-to rifle for deer is a Rem Model 7 in .308. Has performed flawlessly for years. My buddy has taken over 50 deer to date with a Model 700 in 30-06. I think your experience is not typical and rifle should go back to Remington if your gunsmith can't figure it out.

P.S. Oops! Reread post and you already dumped it. Still, not typical Remington performance.

carbineman · « **Reply #19 on:** November 18, 2009, 11:48:09 AM »

44 man, One of my 30-30 Toppers with a synthetic stock weighs just a smidge under 6 lbs with a 9 ounce 1-4 Leupold. It wears an NEF synthetic buttstock and uses the standard Topper issue forend with a smidge removed from the channel to float the barrel. I have the front and rear sights removed, and used a Weaver #62 scope rail base as it is half the height and shorter than the other choices. I had to turn the base around and drill some new holes and hog out one existing hole to fit the holes in the Topper barrel.

I agree that the existing handi is too heavy for my tastes also. I often thought of trying to match a 30-30 Topper barrel to an SB2 receiver and ream the chamber to .307 Win. Maybe someday as I know the lug on the barrel would need a lot of work.

Edited to correct spelling

44 Man · « **Reply #20 on:** November 18, 2009, 12:50:20 PM »

That sounds like an option I could live with! 307 or 308 either one. Don't know if that would clean up the chamber. I'm sure someone will jump in here with what cartridge would work. I don't want to hijack my own thread, so I'll start another one and we'll continue with this subject here. 44 Man

Airsporter · « **Reply #21 on:** November 19, 2009, 01:08:12 PM »

Can't find my notes but at one time I weighed all of the individual components of the Handi. If memory serves me, you can save at least 1/2 to 3/4 pound if you use a synthetic stock, replace the steel buttstock bolt with aluminum, and the recoil pad with a plastic buttplate.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** November 19, 2009, 03:22:26 PM »

Stock and frame weights are all listed in the FAQs.

Tim

Tallwalker · « **Reply #23 on:** December 02, 2009, 02:23:42 PM »

I put a plastic stock, and forend on my 30-30 handi today, and I think it dropped the weight about 1/2 lb., or a little more. It now weighs about 7 3/8 lb. wearing a Weaver 1.5x-5x scope on the NEF base, and with Weaver rings. Most of the weight came off the butt, so it makes it handle better as well. Still thinking about an ultralight for those snowshoeing days though.

Tim: I was surprised when the forend showed up from Brownell's that it was the old style, and I'm one of those odd ones that prefers that! The barrel channel was a bit snug ( shoots well) so I wonder a bit if it is an ultralight forend?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** December 02, 2009, 02:42:49 PM »

Choate, who makes all synthetic stocks, nor H&R make any rifle forends that have different barrel channels, they're all the same, even those for the Superlight, they just have more space on the lighter contours, will still fit bull barrels, with less space. H&R's retail parts lists have never listed forends for different barrel contours. Brownell's won't get the new style stocks until they sell all the old stuff.

Tim

Tallwalker · « **Reply #25 on:** December 03, 2009, 02:47:32 AM »

Ah, that explains why there is more clearance towards the front.......