Author Topic: 45-70 for small game? (Read 2757 times)

jlwilliams · « **on:** November 15, 2009, 11:33:00 AM »

I was looking through a load book contemplating some light target loads. My mind was wandering and I got to thinking about using a big bore loaded down for small game. Has anybody here tried it? Before I go shoot anything, will the sheer size of the round make a rabbit into a mess? I could try it with a 44 spl, but the 45-70 loaded down is still going to be a different round.

I understand that something like this isn't the ideal small game gun, but I'm just kind of thinking about the versatility of this wonderful round.

peternap · « **Reply #1 on:** November 15, 2009, 11:39:48 AM »

The 45/70 has been loaded with everything from buffalo bullets to round balls and even wooden shot cartridges.

Casull · « **Reply #2 on:** November 15, 2009, 12:08:41 PM »

A round ball loaded to about 800 or 900 fps would be like a cap and ball revolver. I would think pretty good for rabbit.

Spanky · « **Reply #3 on:** November 15, 2009, 12:53:09 PM »

Shoot 'em in the head.

Spanky

BBF · « **Reply #4 on:** November 15, 2009, 12:57:05 PM »

I'm thinking 150 gr Collar button bullets

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** November 15, 2009, 01:07:50 PM »

Yup, collar buttons, or maybe round balls in sabots, .480" round balls sized .460" might work too.

Tim

http://www.westernbullet.com/ly4gr6.html

http://mikeswillowlake.com/45-70_fun.htm

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(fdmmbinrvs4evg45jupdub55))/Categories/tableList.aspx?catId=2&subId=25&styleId=58&PageSize=25&Page=2

ruppster · « **Reply #6 on:** November 15, 2009, 01:19:15 PM »

I shot a chipmunk with a 300gr 1900fps round the other day. There wasn't enough left to eat...

Really though, the little CB's with a shot of Trail Boss should work, I would still avoid a body shot if you're shootin' for the pot.

Swampman · « **Reply #7 on:** November 15, 2009, 01:25:25 PM »

40 grains of Varget under a 405 grain cast lead bullet will harvest most small game.

Spanky · « **Reply #8 on:** November 15, 2009, 02:20:32 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on November 15, 2009, 01:25:25 PM

40 grains of Varget under a 405 grain cast lead bullet will harvest most small game.

Most big game too.

Spanky

Slufoot · « **Reply #9 on:** November 15, 2009, 02:29:54 PM »

A 000 Buckshot pellet in a 45/357 muzzleloader sabot pushed by some Trailboss would be about as small game as you'll get in a 45-70.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

knight0334 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 15, 2009, 03:10:31 PM »

Check your game laws first. Some states limit small game to shotguns, rimfires, or calibers less than whatever.

myarmor · « **Reply #11 on:** November 15, 2009, 03:25:49 PM »

The 45-70 is a versitle cartridge but to shoot rabbits with it other then to see how much damage it does and not expect to get anything off of the animal, seems just foolish.... like shooting a rabbit with a 12ga Slug, in therory or course, but you see my point.
I am all for testing the range of a cartridge downloading it or loading it up, but these huge bullets are gonna shred up a bunny.
Why not pick up a 223 and load it down with BlueDot, I have and get great accuracy with a wide range of velocities from 22LR, 22Mag. 22Hornet, and full 223 power loads.
To each his own, best of luck to you in what ever path you choose.

-Aaron

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 15, 2009, 04:14:15 PM »

I have shot a lot of Rabbits with 150 gr collar buttons and had plenty of them to eat. Started with Pyrodex (15 gr and cornmeal to fill the case) and now use trailboss (12 gr). At the 800-1000 fps these run at they go clear through at 50 yards and leave an exit wound identical to entry. Also work on beavers, bobcats, and one squirrel who really had it coming (he was not easy to skin, but I have actually seen more damage done with a 12 gauge).

jlwilliams · « **Reply #13 on:** November 15, 2009, 04:18:48 PM »

What's a collar button?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** November 15, 2009, 04:19:20 PM »

See the first link I posted.

Tim

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 15, 2009, 04:38:39 PM »

Picture a Crossman air rifle pellet only make it .458". That's a collarbutton.

jlwilliams · « **Reply #16 on:** November 16, 2009, 01:55:58 AM »

Thanks. That is a neat little projectile.

I'll bet it would shoot well out of a big bore pneumatic gun.

peternap · « **Reply #17 on:** November 16, 2009, 02:12:07 AM »

Quote from: jlwilliams on November 16, 2009, 01:55:58 AM

Thanks. That is a neat little projectile.

I'll bet it would shoot well out of a big bore pneumatic gun.

NEI makes the mold for them but NEI is also a little over priced IMO.
Lee made a special run a while back and you may be able to find one of those used...they were real popular though.

You can also pick up a mold here and I think it is a Lee custom
http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.aspx?ItemID=d3fb4508-70e1-4d9b-87bd-6d9c2d504d33

peternap · « **Reply #18 on:** November 16, 2009, 02:32:42 AM »

Here is some light load data

45-70 Gov't light loads.

144 grain collar button or 146 grain round ball
8 grains Unique 1135 fps
15 grains 2400 1300 fps
18 grains 4227 1390 fps
20 grains 4198 1350 fps

193 grain 455 Webley revolver bullet sized .457" (mold is rare)
10 grains Unique 1350 fps
16 grains 2400 1260 fps
18 grains 2400 1365 fps
18 grains 4227 1320 fps
19 grains N-200 1330 fps
21 grains 4198 1350 fps

210 grain bullet (mold and manufacturer unknown)
10 grains Unique 1330 fps
17 grains 2400 1310 fps
18 grains 4227 1295 fps
20 grains N-200 1325 fps
22 grains 4198 1400 fps

250 and 255 grain Colt revolver bullets (250 grain gas check #454485)
26 grains 2400 1480 fps
27 grains 4227 1440 fps
28 grains N-200 1460 fps
34 grains 4198 1630 fps
37 grains 3031 1510 fps

Source:Frank C. Barnes, Gun Digest 27th Ed., 1973

Default · « **Reply #19 on:** November 16, 2009, 03:29:44 AM »

Just be careful not to load it to light or the bunny might grab a ride on that big slug into the next county

Default

siamese4570 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 16, 2009, 07:42:03 AM »

I have used the .457 round balls that are for my Ruger Old Army. I think that I used Unique powder. Shove the ball in halfway and crimp it. Can't remember the load, but I'll look it up if you're interested. Have a Leupold 2X on my 4570 handi and the ball hits dead on at 25 yds using the lower point on the dual-x crosshair as an aiming point.

Siamese 4570

BBF · « **Reply #21 on:** November 16, 2009, 07:47:37 AM »

When loading a ball( buckshot) do you set the ball far enough into the case to put some lube in front?

peternap · « **Reply #22 on:** November 16, 2009, 08:19:52 AM »

Not in front. I take a pinch of lube and make a pancake, push the case through it and seat the ball on top of it.

I haven't tried it but don't see any reason you couldn't tumble lube the ball in LLOX.

JerryKo · « **Reply #23 on:** November 16, 2009, 08:38:03 AM »

I dont see any problem with using large bores for small game. Esp. If it is for the pot. HEAD SHOTS are the name of the game here. I remember fall turkey hunting about 7yrs ago when I bumped a bunny from cover. I love rabbit meat enough that I let that 3 dollar shell skim the top of that bunnys head. Overkill def. Well placed shot...a must. Fresh rabbit lunch priceless. Load it shoot it eat it. I have to wonder how many suqirrels and rabbits fell to a 54 cal Hawken!

Jerry

Tallwalker · « **Reply #24 on:** November 16, 2009, 03:27:48 PM »

Well, it should make the small game smaller... Seriously, folks shoot small game with .45 Colt handgun loads using round nose bullets......... I don't see where there would be much difference at the same velocities.

myarmor · « **Reply #25 on:** November 16, 2009, 04:15:24 PM »

I meant no disrespect in my post, I just see no reason to use a 45cal on small game unless it need be a necessity not to mention cost... 45-70 to 22lr ?
Again to each his own, if you feel the need to experiment with this it's a free country

jlwilliams · « **Reply #26 on:** November 17, 2009, 01:13:13 AM »

Quote from: myarmor on November 16, 2009, 04:15:24 PM

I meant no disrespect in my post, I just see no reason to use a 45cal on small game unless it need be a necessity not to mention cost... 45-70 to 22lr ?
Again to each his own, if you feel the need to experiment with this it's a free country

No offense taken. I understand your point. In fact, not wanting to waste a creature is a big part of why I asked what other people's experience has been before I started playing with loads. My idea is to make some 'small stuff' loads to have on hand when hunting with a 45-70 Handi. If I have worked up a light load and worked out where it hits relative to full loads, I could use the big rifle for the target of oportunity (no second firearm allowed here when hunting, so a little 22 can't come along). If the consensus (sp?) was that big bores are too destructive even at low speeds I may have just abandoned the persuit.

This is obviously not for this year's hunting season, a little late for that. The question occured to me now, so I brought it up now. Maybe over the winter I can scrounge up some collar buttons then in the spring I can work up a load.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 17, 2009, 08:37:23 AM »

I carry the collarbuttons so I only have to carry one gun deer/bear/pig hunting.

Dead doc · « **Reply #28 on:** November 19, 2009, 05:05:43 AM »

Over the years I have taken 2 rabits and one Grouse with the 45 Colt RN lead bullets all were NOT destroyed and eaten . I have also taken several grouse and several rabbits and squirells with the 38/40 in a rifle , ALL were not destroyed and eaten ( 40 cal by the way ). I have MISSED a few species of small game with round ball loads in MY 45/70s but would not hesitate to use it again for small game IF IT WAS STILL LEGAL in my State. Penna. Has made it unlawful to shoot small game with single projectile larger than 224 ,several years ago. No more one gun hunting. I guess i could line up the sights at 16 power on a rabbit at 20 yards with my 220 swift and see what is left and be legal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! $:-\$

JerryKo · « **Reply #29 on:** November 19, 2009, 05:59:51 AM »

Quote from: Dead doc on November 19, 2009, 05:05:43 AM

Over the years I have taken 2 rabits and one Grouse with the 45 Colt RN lead bullets all were NOT destroyed and eaten . I have also taken several grouse and several rabbits and squirells with the 38/40 in a rifle , ALL were not destroyed and eaten ( 40 cal by the way ). I have MISSED a few species of small game with round ball loads in MY 45/70s but would not hesitate to use it again for small game IF IT WAS STILL LEGAL in my State. Penna. Has made it unlawful to shoot small game with single projectile larger than 224 ,several years ago. No more one gun hunting. I guess i could line up the sights at 16 power on a rabbit at 20 yards with my 220 swift and see what is left and be legal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-

I still have my PA legal one gun grab all... 22 Hornet.

Jerry