Author Topic: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish  (Read 922 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dixie Dude

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
  • Gender: Male
7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« on: November 12, 2009, 06:43:22 AM »
Did H&R ever make barrels for these calibers?  They both have rims and would be easier to extract than rimless.  I'm getting the Handi bug and was wondering what would be good calibers to have.

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43304
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2009, 07:05:19 AM »
No.  :-\
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2009, 07:06:45 AM »
Did they make a 307 winchester ? that has all you are looking for
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43304
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2009, 07:07:34 AM »
No 307W either.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2009, 07:30:38 AM »
They do make 30-30 that can be rechambered to either 30-30 AI or 307Win.
Or change the rim and chamber for 30-40 Krag.
307 or 30-40 will equal the 303 or 7.62X54R.
You can also rechamber to either and reload with .308 projectiles instead of the .311.

Offline andrewtheelder38

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2009, 07:38:35 AM »
I CANNOT FOR THE LIFE OF ME UNDERSTAND WHY THE HAVE NOT YET MADE RIFLES FOR BOTH OF THOSE CALIBERS LONG BEFORE NOW.....I MEAN, THE WHOLE SURPLUS AMMUNITION LIABILITY THING ASIDE, MOST AMERICAN AMMO MAKERS ARE NOW MAKING THOSE CALIBERS IN SAMMI SPEC AMMO SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM......PERSONALLY, I THINK THE .303 BRITISH WOULD BE THE MOST PERFECT HANDI RIFLE CALIBER EVER AND FOR ALL TIME.

Offline Dixie Dude

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2009, 08:29:11 AM »
How good is a 30-30 AI over a standard 30-30?  Also, can you fire form the 30-30 AI from standard 30-30 ammo?

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2009, 08:52:48 AM »
Adds about 100 FPS.
an yes you make 30-30 AI brass by firing 30-30 ammo out of it.
and it will still shoot 30-30 if you need.

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43304
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2009, 09:14:50 AM »
How good is a 30-30 AI over a standard 30-30?  Also, can you fire form the 30-30 AI from standard 30-30 ammo?

Fire forming factory ammo depends on how the chamber is cut, mine split 3 out of 5 at the shoulder, to achieve a good fire formed case, it must headspace on the shoulder, if there's no support at the shoulder, the thin brass may split. Since the SB2 frame can handle pressures considerably higher than 30-30 SAAMI specs, you can load it considerably hotter if you choose to, I use 375 Win brass loaded to ~60kpsi which is spec for the 375Win, I get nearly 2900fps with the 125gr Sierra Prohunter SPT which has good terminal performance at the velocity at 100yds according to a friend who's killed muleys with his 308Win shooting it at about 3000fps.

Tim

"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline spikehorn

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (84)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3000
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2009, 09:17:40 AM »
I want a handi in 303 brit so much I'm thinking about buying one of the Dick's SG 223 ultra varmint combos and sending it to wayne york for a rebore.
308 win                 45-70                       12ga         
30-30                    223 stainless steel   20ga TDC
44 mag                  Tracker II 20ga        20ga
45-70 Manlicher     20ga USH                28ga
                                                              410ga

Offline Couger

  • Trade Count: (77)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1652
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2009, 09:18:40 AM »
Some aspects of this thread are interesting, some aspects of it are inane if one remembers that businesses exist to make [that vulgar, albeit very good] profit!

Actually I believe in capitalism and free enterprise, very much so!

If NEF (a.k.a. Handi Rifle Inc.) was run by Handi loonies and not businessmen, I could see tweeking the product line to service fans for every rimmed cartridge out there.

But if one was planning Handi sales based on ammo sales in North America, methinks most times the choices offered by NEF/H&R would not differ that much from what we already are used to.

If was running a company like NEF, I'd look into creating a custom house to satisfy the barrel accessory program, but would also seek their input on what rounds customers popularly sought.

I'd also try to create a schedule that could be [roughly] followed (and shared with distributors) when producing limited or semi-regular runs of  ..... say ..... .357 Maximums, .35 Remingtons, Whelens, .30-40K's or .303's or .762X54's every other year or every three years, so on and so forth.  

But even Remington for example, before acquiring H&R and Marlin, would make a run M700 .25/06's (for example) to last 2 or 3 years worth of projected demands, not just one season's worth.  This philosophy supported the program Remington had when they made their annual Classic M700 is whatever one-time chambering each different year.

As for offering the 7.62X54R, .303Brit or .30-40Krag, since the .30 cal .30-30, .308Win and .30/06 are already offered it makes sense to choose the .30-40K over the .303B and Russian round., altho a limited run could be done on them for collectors, etc. - after regular production was accomplished.

Offline Troyboy

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (41)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1220
  • Gender: Male
  • Work more talk less
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2009, 11:03:08 AM »
While old warhorse calibers are cool from a nolstogic standpoint I really can't see the financial feasability for H&R. The other thing that keeps coming up is this nonsense about these rifles being better suited for rimmed cases. This is just not the case anymore. Of course this is just my rifles talking.
.204 .22lr .22wm .25acp .223 5.56 .243 .25-06 6.5x55  .308  .300wbymag  7.5x54  7.62x25 7.62x39  338-06  9x19 .38spl  9x18 .45acp . 45-70 .500s&w 12rfl 12smb 20smb  .45lc 410smb .22hornet .280AI    Ask not what your country can do for you BUT what can YOU do for your country

Offline andrewtheelder38

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 125
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2009, 12:17:22 PM »
Well, of course we are not all ignoring the fact that they need to make money, but "marketing" is defined as identifying a consumer demand and meeting it profitably.......handi rifle officianados are loyal and repeat buyers......of course they always have the low price enticement for first time buyers but you want your first time customers to repeat buy as well.......offering the oddball calibers that your competition does not offer and at a low ball price too means you can count on repeat customers as long as you offer new calibers all the time......frankly, they should have offered .303 british barrels long before they offered 500 smith and wesson barrels......the ammo and the components even are prohibitively expensive even for handloaders......

I know for a fact that they have some of their barrels made at green mountain barrels in new hampshire so chambering and boring a ffew odd calibers at that facility would not be prohibitivelly expensive for them to do......

Offline trotterlg

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (36)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3978
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2009, 12:18:51 PM »
Take a look here, been done a while back.  Larry

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,168498.0.html
A gun is just like a parachute, if you ever really need one, nothing else will do.

Offline dpe.ahoy

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3363
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2009, 01:15:39 PM »
Unlike Tim, I have fireformed over 80 cases of 30-30 AI and haven't lost one yet.  Of course, now I will probably lose the next 20 in a row since I said that. :P  DP
RIP Oct 27, 2017

Handi's:22Shot, 22LR, 2-22Mag, 22Hornet, 5-223, 2-357Max, 44 mag, 2-45LC, 7-30 Waters, 7mm-08, 280, 25-06, 30-30, 30-30AI, 444Marlin, 45-70, AND 2-38-55s, 158 Topper 22 Hornet/20ga. combo;  Levers-Marlins:Two 357's, 44 mag, 4-30-30s, RC-Glenfields 36G-30A & XLR, 3-35 Rem, M-375, 2-444P's, 444SS, 308 MX, 338Marlin MXLR, 38-55 CB, 45-70 GS, XS7 22-250 and 7mm08;  BLR's:7mm08, 358Win;  Rossi: 3-357mag, 44mag, 2-454 Casull; Winchesters: 7-30 Waters, 45Colt Trapper; Bolt actions, too many;  22's, way too many.  Who says it's an addiction?

Offline blind ear

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4156
  • Gender: Male
    • eddiegjr
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2009, 12:24:43 AM »
andrewtheelder38

+1 on the 500 S&W offering rather than so many other choices that could have been made. Makes me wonder what (or if) the logic was? Maybe it was to support someones ammo sales? Remington isn't what I see on my dealers shelf in 500, mostly something else. Logic? I don't know. eddiegjr  ???
Oath Keepers: start local
-
“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.” – Ron Paul, End the Fed
-
An economic crash like the one of the 1920s is the only thing that will get the US off of the road to Socialism that we are on and give our children a chance at a future with freedom and possibility of economic success.
-
everyone hears but very few see. (I can't see either, I'm not on the corporate board making rules that sound exactly the opposite of what they mean, plus loopholes) ear
"I have seen the enemy and I think it's us." POGO
St Judes Childrens Research Hospital

Offline gstewart44

  • Trade Count: (20)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2009, 06:16:00 AM »
H&R could move an awful lot of 303 barrels/rifles especially in Canada,    I would definitely have one for my hog/deer gun.   
I'm just tryin' to keep everything in balance, Woodrow. You do more work than you got to, so it's my obligation to do less. (Gus McCrae)

Offline Dixie Dude

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2009, 06:23:00 AM »
Not meaning to hijack my own thread, but did they ever make it in 460 SW?  That would allow 454 Catsuil and 45 LC.  Also, if 357 MAX is as good or better than 30-30, what would the 460 do in a long barrel?

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43304
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2009, 06:31:25 AM »
No on the 460S&W, but it's easy to hand ream the 45LC barrel, mine does nearly 2900fps with the 200gr Hornady factory ammo.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Dixie Dude

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2009, 06:34:39 AM »
That puts it in the 45-70 or 458 WM territory.  Wow.  Plus you can shoot 45 LC for small game or plinking.  Quickdtoo, you are a wealth of information.  Thanks!

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43304
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7.62 X 54 or .303 Brittish
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2009, 06:53:18 AM »
I dunno about being in the 45-70/458WM terrritory, the short bullet has a terrible BC of .151 and SD of .140, bleeds off velocity quickly, it's not a lot more efficient than a round ball ballistically. The 300gr Barnes TSX-FB has a BC of .230 and can be pushed over 2500fps in a 24" barrel which is comparable to 250gr bullets in my 460S&W. Factory spec for the 200gr ammo from a pistol is 2200fps which is great for a pistol, I dunno how the 200gr bullet would perform terminally at rifle velocities either, specially under 100yds, in the pistol it looses almost 500fps at 100yds.

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/store/460-SW-200-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain