Author Topic: Cannon firing at Castillo de San Marcos, full uniform (Read 2541 times)

cannonmn · « **on:** November 03, 2009, 04:31:23 PM »

This isn't my video but I saw this same demo firing when I was in St. Augustine 2 yrs. ago. It is much more impressive when you are there, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTi4tPEDnF4&feature=related

KABAR2 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 03, 2009, 04:59:10 PM »

I wonder if they are praying "I hope this doesn't blow up in my face" before they make the sign of the cross.

subdjoe · « **Reply #2 on:** November 04, 2009, 04:14:10 AM »

Quote from: KABAR2 on November 03, 2009, 04:59:10 PM

I wonder if they are praying "I hope this doesn't blow up in my face" before they make the sign of the cross.

Most likely: "Sancta Barbara, ora pro nobis."

Double D · « **Reply #3 on:** November 04, 2009, 08:41:29 AM »

In the early days of this forum we had a regular here who was part of the park crew at St Augustine.

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #4 on:** November 04, 2009, 09:34:37 AM »

It's been far too long since I've been to St. Augustine - I was in the Boy Scouts at the time. It's only a drive across the state. Maybe for my next vacation...

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #5 on:** November 04, 2009, 06:37:49 PM »

When Napoleon Couture and I visited here in 2005, we only allowed 3 to 4 hours on our travel plan. What a ridiculous estimation!! We have never been so completely underestimated a fort. "Oldest in North America", sure, sure, O.K. Great. "Changed hands 16 times over the centuries", so what, Winchester, Virginia changed hands about 75 times in 4 YEARS! Made of cannon ball proof super rock called Coquina, yea right, just give them blizzards of 24 pdrs at close range and watch it fold up!! We were unimpressed with brochure come-ons and internet site hype.....until we actually arrived.....then a truly subtle realization of the awesome nature of this fortress began to seep in. We have talked to quite a few jaded fort hunters and they all agree about placing this fort in the top three in the United States.

We sure do thank cannonmn for making this video link available. Visiting in November, we did not see the cannon-firing demonstration. However, this is an excuse to re-visit this fort and we will. It was really hard to limit our experiences here to four pics, but consider these just the very smallest, tiny piece of the iceberg's tip. This fort is NOT huge, but your experience here most certainly will be.

Visit this place!

Tracy and Mike

Napoleon Couture poses next to a real beauty. This Spanish mortar, cast in Barcelona, Spain in 1724 is capable of throwing a 15" shell weighing 390 pounds 2,100 yards. This huge mortar is part of the Yale University Art Collection and was placed at the Castillo on an indefinite loan in 1971. It was captured by the United States Army in 1898 as a result of an assault upon a fortress in Cuba during the Spanish-American War.

Mike and Tracy stand next to a large Spanish cannon at the Castillo. It has the bold relief adornment of similar Spanish pieces and is in excellent condition.

A replica of one the Confederate troops left behind. This is an unusual stand of grape. First, it's a 6 pdr munition, then it has very small shot weighing 1 oz each and a lot more of them than you would expect. The shot looked like iron to us.

An interesting exhibit of the fort's masonry is on display inside. You are encouraged to touch the large piece before you. It is really hard to describe the way this stuff feels. It looks like the shattered quartz we have in Colorado near Central City where lots of Gold was found. But it does not crumble like that rock. You can't really press your fingers into it, but it feels like you can, almost like a huge sponge made of uncounted millions of stone flakes. It's tremendous advantage during an artillery attack, is it's ability to absorb cannon balls without any disruption of surrounding stone. No radiating cracks, just a single isolated hole results from a hit. Penetration is deeper in this stuff than in granite, but you still have a wall standing there after 200 hits. Walls 10 to 14 feet thick are more than adequate.

RocklockI · « **Reply #6 on:** November 04, 2009, 06:58:24 PM »

Well Bucko

, if you's do's go's ....I'm going too ! There is no doubt ..... !

I havnt been to Mertal (sp) beach since 1978 ....I gotta go see the ol carrnies !

yes I know the beach I knew is gone ........

But so's we can feel better about 'our situations' we can go see others suffer at Parris Island S.C.

There are open racks for us there as well .

it's free too ! Damn win , win all around ...this is a great idea you had !

My only buddy from PI I've stayed in touch with lives in Anderson SC , and so , we can stay there as he owes me ....big time . ......

I cant wait .
Gary

cannonmn · « **Reply #7 on:** November 04, 2009, 07:20:33 PM »

Nice writeup and photos as usual gents.

One small point, however, if you would idulge me for a moment-

Quote

One the Confederate troops left behind. This is an unusual stand of grape. First, it's a 6 pdr munition, then it has very small shot weighing 1 oz each and a lot more of them than you would expect. The shot looked like iron to us.

It sho' don't look original to me!

cannonmn · « **Reply #8 on:** November 04, 2009, 07:28:03 PM »

If y'all want to take the cook's tour of Castillo, just push da lil' arrow. I made this so long ago it was still in the silent era of the movies. One of my favorite weapons in the whole world is shown right on the you'se tubes startup screen. Anybody remember what's special about it?

[yt=425,350]f3f1odh2UUk[/yt]

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #9 on:** November 04, 2009, 08:31:29 PM »

Yes, you certainly are correct, John. I was thinking, "A replica of" preceding that photo's caption, but the fingers didn't do what the 'ol brain was thinking. We also got a call on this proving that you guys are sharp as usual. We liked your photo tour also; it brings back fond memories. Watching your photo tour made me realize that I forgot one important shot of the Castillo's south side.

T&M

This photo proves that your experience at The Castillo de San Marcos in Saint Augustine, Florida begins as soon as you step out of your vehicle in the parking lot. It's what you don't see that is important! You don't see much of the fort, because it is masked by a substantial 'Glacis'. This Glacis is a huge wedge-shaped ramp composed of millions of tons of soil and sand which protects the forts Ravelin and Curtain Wall against the effects of direct artillery fire from breeching batteries. All you see from any land approach route is cannon muzzles!! The defender's field of fire is unobstructed, of course, another advantage of a long sloping Glacis.

RocklockI · « **Reply #10 on:** November 04, 2009, 08:59:16 PM »

I maybe stepping 'out of my bounds abit ' , and anyone who thinks so is proly right .

BUT...... that mortar that Mike is standing next to MUST be the prototype for the Wicked Witch Of The West's indirect fire guns .

They would be the guns from hell . uuooglier guns can almost not be imagined short of outright devil worship .

Are those ..??..ugly ascsed angled bent loop 'things' supposed to be ......even a tunna , that has been caught in a dolfin net ?

Why didnt they just cast them into the muzzle face !!!! ?? mercy

that piece of bronze is one big waste of Church Bells !!!

The guns posted latley from Peru are all over that ... ..... .... flower pottage thingage .

some things once seen can not be unseen !

gary so tell us what did you REALLY think of ...the ...it thing ...?

Thats my story and I'm stickin to it !

cannonmn · « **Reply #11 on:** November 04, 2009, 11:22:27 PM »

Anyone new to GBBP board learns to first, understand (it may take a bit of effort for some) then appreciate (hopefully) that unique dialect found only in one isolated area of the far out West, yes, it is "Garese!" Teams of linguistic scholars have recently descended upon that tiny village with their video cameras and recorders to capture the dialect in its native environment before it is contaminated by encroaching civilization, and lost forever.

Quote

BUT...... that mortar that Mike is standing next to MUST be the prototype for the Wicked Witch Of The West's indirect fire guns .

They would be the guns from hell . uuooglier guns can almost not be imagined short of outright devil worship .

Are those ..??..ugly ascsed angled bent loop 'things' supposed to be ......even a tunna , that has been caught in a dolfin net ? Why didnt they just cast them into the muzzle face !!!! ?? mercy that piece of bronze is one big waste of Church Bells !!!

The guns posted latley from Peru are all over that ... ..... .... flower pottage thingage .

some things once seen can not be unseen !

gary so tell us what did you REALLY think of ...the ...it thing ...?

With all due respect to a guru and prophet, I mean where else could you get such totally original gems as

Quote

some things once seen can not be unseen !

I love it, Gary, hope you never change. If you ever decide to "go public" with your gift, I want to be your agent!

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #12 on:** November 04, 2009, 11:23:46 PM »

Coquina is composed of coral and shells, which gives it a loose structure, keeping it strong but soft, so it absorbs a hit. I think I remember Fort San Felipe in the Dominican Republic also being made of it, though it's been more than 10 years since I was there.

RocklockI · « **Reply #13 on:** November 06, 2009, 11:49:04 AM »

John , thank you for the complement !

If I ever do take my show on the road ,you have the job

.....I'm sure I can find suitable compensation in your cannon storage wharehouse

.

BTW What gun (bronze) would be THE ONE you would keep from your collection ? If you only could have one ?

I just saw you on mythbusters today John .

Just the part where they were shooting in your yard .

Double D · « **Reply #14 on:** November 06, 2009, 12:02:58 PM »

Quote from: cannonmn on November 03, 2009, 04:31:23 PM

This isn't my video but I saw this same demo firing when I was in St. Augustine 2 yrs. ago. It is much more impressive when you are there, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTi4tPEDnF4&feature=related

I have to ask, is the drill demonstrated in the video a replication of the original Spanish drill of the period or a modern exercise to safely fire a cannon for demonstration taken from the Park Service manual...which isn't bad.

Max Caliber · « **Reply #15 on:** November 06, 2009, 01:28:35 PM »

Here is a nice view of the fort. I like to go there the first part of December, it's usually pretty quite then.

cannonmn · « **Reply #16 on:** November 06, 2009, 01:45:54 PM »

Quote

BTW What gun (bronze) would be THE ONE you would keep from your collection ?

It would probably be the falconet by Petrus Overney of Leewerden, Netherlands, dated 1685. The tube is about 4 feet long, weighs about 350 lbs., and has about as much decoration as any cannon I've seen. The original owner was a count who had four of them. He had a treasure house on his estate and these guns were to help defend the place. I found out quite a bit about him, he was one of those very successful Dutch merchants from the 17th. C, as I recall he owned a small fleet of trading vessels or something like that. Two of the guns are still at his estate which is now the Dutch National Carriage Museum. One is in the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. Other is mine. It is mounted on an original British 3 pounder field gun carriage, I guess because it just happens to fit. Sorry I have no pix of it with me, and it is one of those not in a photogenic location at present. Some day I'll get y'all a picture of it. One of you enterprising websearchers might find a pic of one of the other quadruplets if you are lucky.

One reason I like it is because Petrus Overney was a real master caster, and did a number of statues, cathedral doors, bells, etc., and his work is as good as it gets.

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #17 on:** November 06, 2009, 02:20:53 PM »

I think the estate is now called the Nienoord estate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leek,_Netherlands

Is this the cannon?

http://www.hetverhaalvangroningen.nl/story/469?axelref_page=0

cannonmn · « **Reply #18 on:** November 06, 2009, 02:24:58 PM »

D__n that was quick! Yessir that's one of the quadruplets.

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #19 on:** November 06, 2009, 02:36:06 PM »

Looks nice, but it's not a great photo. I'd love to see more of one when you get a chance!

Here's a translated version of the article. If this stops working, just copy the original link and do a google search of it, which will offer to translate it.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.hetverhaalvangroningen.nl/story/469%3Faxelref_page%3D0&ei=Qc_0SoWKMdHS8QbItajzCQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.hetverhaalvangroningen.nl/story/469%253Faxelref_page%253D0%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

cannonmn · « **Reply #20 on:** November 06, 2009, 02:45:38 PM »

I looked at the site that photo is on and it has a story about the cannons, and says only 3 remain, so they don't know I have one. The automatic translation from the Dutch language leaves something to be desired, but you get the idea. I like the last part where the gunner's clothes got blown off and after a while someone noticed his underwear was on fire. I can't tell but it seems to say he didn't get hurt despite all that action.

I'm glad you asked about my favorite gun, since once we started discussing it here I was able to find this story, which I knew nothing about. BTW, my gun came from an auction in London about 1960's sometime-the former owner Mr. Bivins bought it there, I wasn't collecting cannons yet at that time.

Quote

The guns of Nienoord [story]

[16th century-present]

The Lords of Nienoord played a role in the defense of the North. Thus abolished Wigbold Ewsum II (1554-1584) and Caspar of Ewsum (1584-1606) with guns and took a small army around. A reference to the role of Nienoord can also be found in the shell grotto. During construction (around 1700) bricked it runs two iron cannon in the back wall and drainage of the wine cooling containers. Moreover, the construction of the new deposit waste iron gate in 1708, two shot guns and dug pile at the entrance.

Even in 1737, in drawing up the contents of the deceased Mr Borg Johan Carel Ferdinand Baron Inn-und Kniphausen (1717-1737), we noted in the "Battery" (construction of the shell grotto) in addition to many garden tools "8 big guns , 3 long guns, short guns 3, 7 small guns ", so together 21 guns. These are the scattered over time.

Two ornamental bronze cannons have survived the centuries and were jonkheer Mr. John Abraham Panhuys Aemilius (1884-1907) on gun carriages in the courtyard placed. After 1907 they have a half-century spent in the coach until it again as exhibits summer outside a given place. These two pieces are called Nienoord and Vredewold and belong together.

At the top they have the same markings from bottom to top: P. OVERNEY ME FECIT LEOVARDIAE 1676 (Peter Overney made me Leeuwarden 1676). The weapon of Inn-und Knyphausen Nienoord of digging under a crown adorns using both guns. In a cartouche is read: GWGVKHVNVDLV (Georg Wilhelm Grave Of Knyphausen Lord Of Nienoord Van Den Lande Vredewold) and DOMINUS PROVIDEBIT (the Lord will provide). The guns are distinguished by different weapons. The one is the weapon of Nienoord NIENORT depicted in the text, on the other the arms of Vredewold with the text VREDWOLT.

In 1898 there was an incident with these guns. Then on September 6 of that year Queen Wilhelmina was inaugurated, was the Van Panhuys the coronation festivities in Amsterdam available. Hobbe son had devised on that day the guns for deposit eleven o'clock gun salute firing.

So was the morning outside the gate a few people: the mayor and his four year old son, the town clerk, the driver and forester Gerrit Plum. Plum-gunner was old, and knew exactly how he kardoezen powder with the ramrod in the course had to move. In turn came from two guns a loud bang. After the fifth shot pushed the gunner in a kardoes still a smoking gun. Jonkheer Hobbe have warned: "Beware Gerrit, the gun still smoking, there will still be fire in the course!" But Gerrit continued on with the words "if it goes off to get the shot never got beyond the farm Hylke van der Veen. He referred Eastern Heerdt behind the deer. But suddenly went off and shot the ramrod flew through the air, with pieces of Gerrits pants, vest and jacket. They were indeed at Van der Veen on land and in the trees right. Battered and burned hand was the gunner on the ground groaning. A bucket of water was quickly persuaded to hand cooling, and a few drinks at the mental skills. When Plum rose, there was still smoke from his underwear. "Man, you are on fire from below!" said the terrified equerry. The Mayor suddenly grabbed the water bucket and threw it against the victim. Eventually fell into the injury and after a few weeks back in the ranger office. But he never fired guns.

Besides the guns in the Nienoord is in the Victoria and Albert Museum in London a light gun. Deze is 118 cm lang, voorzien van het wapen van Georg Wilhelm Graaf von Inn- und Kniphausen (1665-1709), de spreuk Dominus Providebit en het jaartal 1681. It is cast by Overney. It is probably in England came as a gift to William III of Orange-Nassau, who in 1689 ascended the English throne as the husband of Queen Mary Stuart. Currently, there are four iron and three bronze cannons Nienoord remaining.

pages

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #21 on:** November 06, 2009, 02:49:18 PM »

I don't think they're aware of either of the others:

Quote

Two ornamental bronze cannons have survived the centuries and were jonkheer Mr. John Abraham Panhuys Aemilius (1884-1907) on gun carriages in the courtyard placed. Na 1907 hebben zij een halve eeuw in het koetshuis doorgebracht, totdat zij weer als museumstukken 's zomers buiten een plaats kregen. After 1907 they have a half-century spent in the coach until it again as exhibits summer outside a given place. Deze twee stukken heten Nienoord en Vredewold en horen bij elkaar. These two pieces are called Nienoord and Vredewold and belong together.

The article makes it seem that they are unaware of the other guns. Perhaps you'd like to let them know there are 2 more...

Apparently this is the full name of the Lord that commissioned them: Georg Wilhelm Grave Of Knyphausen Lord Of Nienoord Van Den Lande Vredewold

cannonmn · « **Reply #22 on:** November 06, 2009, 02:51:48 PM »

I guess we cross-posted! Thanks for bringing the photo and article to my attention.

cannonmn · « **Reply #23 on:** November 06, 2009, 02:53:50 PM »

Quote

The article makes it seem that they are unaware of the other guns. Perhaps you'd like to let them know there are 2 more...

They do describe the one in the V&A museum, it has same marks as mine. Now that I think about it, the date on mine is 1681.

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #24 on:** November 06, 2009, 02:56:40 PM »

You're welcome! It's a great story and a beautiful gun!

BTW, he burned his hand and never fired a gun again (I love the wording in the translation

):

Quote

Battered and burned hand was the gunner on the ground groaning. Snel werd een emmer water gehaald om de hand te koelen, en een paar borrels om de geest te sterken. A bucket of water was quickly persuaded to hand cooling, and a few drinks at the mental skills. Toen Pruim opstond, kwam er nog rook uit zijn ondergoed. When Plum rose, there was still smoke from his underwear. "Man, je staat van onderen in brand!" "Man, you are on fire from below!"

gulfcoastblackpowder · « **Reply #25 on:** November 06, 2009, 02:58:45 PM »

Quote from: cannonmn on November 06, 2009, 02:53:50 PM

Quote
The article makes it seem that they are unaware of the other guns. Perhaps you'd like to let them know there are 2 more...

They do describe the one in the V&A museum, it has same marks as mine. Now that I think about it, the date on mine is 1681.

Sorry, I was commenting as I read, and that's at the end. Makes sense that he would have cast two more from the same mold for another customer.

cannonmn · « **Reply #26 on:** November 06, 2009, 03:00:01 PM »

Here's the rundown on the one in the V&A, which is exactly identical to mine, down to the description of the tompion. Too bad no photo. I went to the V&A to see it and they had their cannon tube mounted vertically on the wall, no carriage. When I read this description carefully, they seem to have two of them, identical, which are no. 38-1887 and 39-1887. The latter is "in store" which I guess means in storage. Maybe one got sold (the one I now have) and they didn't update the records.

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O70615/cannon-barrel-falcon/

RocklockI · « **Reply #27 on:** November 06, 2009, 03:09:18 PM »

No wonder i'd keep that too !

Tracy has loaned me a book on "The U(V)isser Collection " volume II . I have studied it , and found my fav .

It is a bronze 2.5 lber by Lovrens ,,,but I think the last letter is a 'z' ,in which case is would be very close to mine !!!! so there is that .

on page 216 made in 1660 , by which time my wifes peeps were in full control of the new world they came over in 1628 and 1631 .

My peeps were still in Germany ,except for my moms Granddad who believe it or not was the son of a lady of the Danish Court . BUT just to screw ME GOOD !

She ran off with the damn gaurd named Pettersen ....and were 'asked' if they would rather live somewheres else ...

and now here I sit ......I think my grandfather went near nuts and had a stroke as he knew all his life of his moms ....role . There are tales in our family of Alfred and his brother living in Grover Colo. during the 20's.

I geuss the cyoties and rattlers (Royal Dannes are not good spellers

) gave them greif while living in their sod house.

So they moved to Alt Colo. in the late 20's and became a dirt farmer and Alfred met Lottie Nickels whos folks are from england . and here I am !

Just the right mix of German , England and Denmark ......

sorry I got carried away !

The cannon is a very nice cannon lots of that 'gingerbread' in front of the filliges and astrigals ,

AND nice dolfins too ,it is inscribed BATAVIA and is a VOC gun .

Gary

cannonmn · « **Reply #28 on:** November 06, 2009, 03:16:01 PM »

Thanks Gary, I have that book too. They've been selling off Visser's collection out of an antique store in the Netherlands, seems the average prices are up in the 5 figs, which when you add shipping etc. kinda leaves me out.

Anyway, more stuff from the V&A website, found the "other" of the two Nienoord cannons they have. The other one is dated 1628 and by a different founder, and is also listed as "in store" but the tube was on the wall when I was there, back in about '86. I have many photos of it at home.

http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O70613/cannon-barrel-falcon/

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #29 on:** November 10, 2009, 08:19:37 PM »

Quote from: cannonmn on November 06, 2009, 01:45:54 PM

Quote
BTW What gun (bronze) would be THE ONE you would keep from your collection ?

It would probably be the falconet by Petrus Overney of Leewerden, Netherlands, dated 1685. The tube is about 4 feet long, weighs about 350 lbs., and has about as much decoration as any cannon I've seen. The original owner was a count who had four of them. He had a treasure house on his estate and these guns were to help defend the place. I found out quite a bit about him, he was one of those very successful Dutch merchants from the 17th. C, as I recall he owned a small fleet of trading vessels or something like that. Two of the guns are still at his estate which is now the Dutch National Carriage Museum. One is in the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. Other is mine. It is mounted on an original British 3 pounder field gun carriage, I guess because it just happens to fit. Sorry I have no pix of it with me, and it is one of those not in a photogenic location at present. Some day I'll get y'all a picture of it. One of you enterprising websearchers might find a pic of one of the other quadruplets if you are lucky.
One reason I like it is because Petrus Overney was a real master caster, and did a number of statues, cathedral doors, bells, etc., and his work is as good as it gets.

Are you looking for this, John?