Author Topic: best medium-long range H&R barrel for deer (Read 2698 times)

guns-o-fun · « **on:** October 27, 2009, 01:05:57 PM »

OK. I sold my old Remington 270 to make room for my new BC 45LC carbine in my overcrowded gunsafe. (Love that little gun by the way). Any suggestions for best H&R medium to long range barrel for deer. I have a deficit in that category right now. I will have it mounted on a relatively new SB2 frame that currently wears a 243 bull barrel with a synthetic stock. I could just go with a 270. The other tempting cal would be a 280, but I understand the difference is really just on paper. Any suggestions?

Mitch in MI · « **Reply #1 on:** October 27, 2009, 01:25:31 PM »

If you have a bunch of leftover 270 ammo, then buy another 270.
Otherwise, 25-06, 270, 7mm-08, 280, 308, or 30-06 would all do fine.
25-06 and 280 get a little extra zip from the 26" barrel.
I chose the 280 because I figured it could carry more energy farther than the others, and would be more than adequate for moose and elk.

GeorgiaDave · « **Reply #2 on:** October 27, 2009, 01:27:55 PM »

Hello from Georgia,

There are many good choices for a deer hunting calibers, however, there are very few if any that are as versitile as the good old 30/06. I have loaded and shot everything from 90 gr. plinkers to 200 gr. moose stompers and have found that they are all usuable for their situation. A good .30 caliber bullet is easy to find for the handloader, and 30/06 factory loads are some of the most widely available on earth. If you take the time to shoot a few different rounds in the weight of your choice I am sure that you will find that there is one that will shoot very impressive groups. The Handi is a great rifle with any round, but as for a deer hunting round, the '06 is about as good as one could ask for. My personal choice is the .308 WIN which has practicaly the same performance as the larger case, so all the same could be said for it as well. I would certainly go for what ever .30 you like the best. Good Luck, and have a great day.

Dave

Sourdough · « **Reply #3 on:** October 27, 2009, 01:40:34 PM »

Without a doubt the venerable ole 30-06. There is a reason it is the standard all others are judged by, it cannot be beat for all around versatility. With bullets ranging from 100gr to 250gr readably available. The bullet weight has a direct bearing on the amount of recoil, and a 110gr varmint bullet loaded, to a light charge of powder can be shot numerous times all day without fatigue or causing a flinch. Can even be used by kids (Not small kids like 8 or 10 year olds, but ok for bigger kids 12 and 14). Or a small woman.

Load it up with heavier bullets, and you have an easy 500 yard rifle for Deer, or Antelope. 300 yard for Elk or Moose. Capable of taking anything in North America.

This Caribou in my Avitar was taken with a 30-06 Handi at 250 yards.

sr sawyer · « **Reply #4 on:** October 27, 2009, 01:54:53 PM »

The .280 AI (Just like Tim's)

Ken

Spanky · « **Reply #5 on:** October 27, 2009, 02:12:55 PM »

What's wrong with the .243 barrel that's on it now?

Spanky

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 27, 2009, 02:37:38 PM »

In a single shot and for a handloader the 30-30 is a good choice. I'd also put a vote in for 45-70. Check some of Tim's shooting with his, all I have is a BC, but it is my choice in long range work (takes practice).

LONGTOM · « **Reply #7 on:** October 27, 2009, 02:38:21 PM »

Depends on what your idea of medium to long range is!

To me, medium range means about 250 yds and long range is 300 to as much as 600 yds.
That is something that is different with just about every shooter.
It really doesn't matter to me as I would take the 270.
The 30-06 is also excellent but for what I shoot, I don't need the extra recoil to get the job done.

LONGTOM

tykempster · « **Reply #8 on:** October 27, 2009, 02:47:36 PM »

280 or 280 Ackley with heavy high BC bullets

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #9 on:** October 27, 2009, 02:50:25 PM »

Spanky

I certainly am a 243 fan, but I just think it sheds too much energy down range. I am leaning toward the 280 right now.

peternap · « **Reply #10 on:** October 27, 2009, 03:28:48 PM »

Quote from: LONGTOM on October 27, 2009, 02:38:21 PM

Depends on what your idea of medium to long range is!

To me, medium range means about 250 yds and long range is 300 to as much as 600 yds.
That is something that is different with just about every shooter.
It really doesn't matter to me as I would take the 270.
The 30-06 is also excellent but for what I shoot, I don't need the extra recoil to get the job done.

LONGTOM

That's a good question and I agree...over 300 yards is getting into long range territory.

I posted in another thread that I consider the .280 the ultimate all around gun, and I mean it. But as a personal preference, make mine the 30/06.

SO FIRST TWO CHOICES WOULD BE 30/06 and 280

Spanky · « **Reply #11 on:** October 27, 2009, 03:30:11 PM »

Quote from: guns-o-fun on October 27, 2009, 02:50:25 PM

Spanky
I certainly am a 243 fan, but I just think it sheds too much energy down range. I am leaning toward the 280 right now.

Can't blame you there... the 280 would probably be my pick too.
I was just curious about the 243.

Spanky

Mac11700 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 27, 2009, 03:38:19 PM »

Medium range..350-600 yards

Non-handloading..there is a plethora of ammo available for these 3 calibers to choose from..and all will work out at 600 yards depending on how big the game is that is being hunted.

1st or 2nd..... 280 or the 30-06

3rd..270

If you handload..exactly the same..

If a custom caliber in a 26" barrel is prefered..and you don't want a stub barrel..get a 25-06..and have it rebored or a 24" 223 barrel..Going with a stub project is about wide open for caliber choices

Mac

billy_56081 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 27, 2009, 03:58:26 PM »

Ballistically the 280 has to be the best performer.

Lazermule · « **Reply #14 on:** October 27, 2009, 04:29:23 PM »

7mm-08 or the 280

I don't have a 280 (yet) but I do have a 7mm-08 and it treated me well last summer at a 1000 yard shoot when I posted a 10" group with it. I used my own handloads loaded to a medium heat range and probably would do better cranked up a bit. I'd like to try the same with a 280. The 7mm does do an excellent job retaining down range energy.

Cottonwood · « **Reply #15 on:** October 28, 2009, 01:23:49 AM »

Quote from: Lazermule on October 27, 2009, 04:29:23 PM

7mm-08 or the 280

I don't have a 280 (yet) but I do have a 7mm-08 and it treated me well last summer at a 1000 yard shoot when I posted a 10" group with it. I used my own handloads loaded to a medium heat range and probably would do better cranked up a bit. I'd like to try the same with a 280. The 7mm does do an excellent job retaining down range energy.

Ya beat me to posting almost the exact same wording. 7mm-08 for sure, as it is a much better performer than the .243 Win with about the same recoil, and the .280 Rem as well because of its down range, and flat trajectory and mild recoil. Either of these is a win win IMHO

LONGTOM · « **Reply #16 on:** October 28, 2009, 03:43:17 AM »

I thought a long while before making this reply.
I hope I am not opening up a can of worms here and I surely am not asking for a heated argument.

I don't mean to be a stick in the mud about this topic but the OP states -
"best medium-long range H&R barrel for deer"
The main words here are for deer.
In my mind about all of the calibers listed will do what he wants, and do it well out to about 350 yds with the exception of one or maybe two.
After that distance things can be a little questionable with a few of them.
I know that in the hands of a skilled rifleman that knows his equipment they can and will do more than expected.
I have stated this many times on other GBO posts.
When you start talking about 350 to 600 yds as being medium range and I guess 1000 yds as being long range things are getting a little out of the norm.
Don't take this the wrong way or as a put down on those who posted these reply's.
That is not my intention.

Some time ago I posted about taking a 500 yd shot on a deer with my 270wsm and dropping her in her tracks and really got raked over the coals for trying such a shot.
We all know it can and has been done many times.

The point is there is just no way one could consider a few of the mentioned rounds that could be relied on to make a clean kill at those extended ranges.
The 270, 280, and the 30-06 would be top choices for those ranges.
Maybe the 308 also, but I have not had enough experience with it to say.
As far as the 243, 30-30, 45-70 goes I think that is a little out of their league at the longer ranges.
Yes I know that it could be done I am sure but I don't think I would try it with those.
The 25-06 is a great round but I feel the weight of the bullet would be the limiting factor on this one at long range.

I think we need to know just what the OP really meant by his term of medium to long range.
Knowing that might change things a bit as to what would be the best.

Lastly, getting back to a point I mentioned earlier.
If my 500 yd shot was so questionable then where are the cry's about maybe trying one out to 1000?

I am not asking for forgiveness for my shot as I have proved I can do it a few times and I am not hacking at those that can and have proved they are up to the task at even longer ranges.
I was just wondering, if we are supposedly deer hunting, why are we talking about ranges at those extended distances?

Again, not being critical, just making an observation.

LONGTOM

JerryKo · « **Reply #17 on:** October 28, 2009, 05:04:25 AM »

To me long is past 300...shortrange is under 100 with medium being between. So buy this assumption, at least for DEER hunting most calibers mentioned are usable. That being said, my choice is, in a handi rifle, 25-06 with 117 to 120gr bullets. Mine shoots well enough with factory that I wouldnt hesitate at a 300 to 400 yard PERFECT shot. At ranges further than 500 I would be compelled to use my remmy 338Ultra Mag and a 300 gr high BC bullet. Just to be sure!
Jerry

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 28, 2009, 02:52:42 PM »

While I know I COULD hit a deer sized target at 500 yards with my 45-70 I really don't plan on trying it any time soon.

But anybody who thinks it won't kill a deer at that distance needs to spend some time at the ragne with one. At 500 yards my 45-70 puts a 410 gr bullet through 4 inches of treated lumber and keeps going right through into the berm.

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #19 on:** October 28, 2009, 03:02:37 PM »

This is the OP here. Yes it is all relative. I am with JerryKo, though:

"To me long is past 300...shortrange is under 100 with medium being between. So buy this assumption, at least for DEER hunting most calibers mentioned are usable. That being said, my choice is, in a handi rifle, 25-06 with 117 to 120gr bullets. Mine shoots well enough with factory that I wouldnt hesitate at a 300 to 400 yard PERFECT shot. At ranges further than 500 I would be compelled to use my remmy 338Ultra Mag and a 300 gr high BC bullet. Just to be sure!"

In these thick woods around here, 300 yards is a long shot. Sorry, should have been more specific. There are a few places where cleared land has been incorporated into the Natl Forest and 200-300 yard shots from a stand are possible. I like the 25-06 idea in a handi - maybe shorten to 24 and recrown for manuvering in a stand. I guess the 280 is a little overkill. The 7mm-08 would work too now that I think of it.

Thanks for all the replies.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #20 on:** October 28, 2009, 04:48:48 PM »

kevinsmith5:
I am sure that the 45-70 will do what you say and more.
With a lot of practice I might even be able to do it with one, just as with my 270 wsm.
To many people under extamate just what a 45-70 can do, but for the average shooter I think most would be better off at 300 or less.
At 500 or 1000 yds that's a lot of drop.
You would need to know your gun & load very well at those ranges.
The same thing can be said about any caliber at those distances.

Now that we know the distances guns-o-fun was asking about we can safely say that any of the calibers can be used to do what he wants.
There is other calibers that would fit in well at these ranges also.
The 35 Whelen, 7x57, 7x64, 38-55 along with others.
Where legal and with the right bullets even the 223 or 22-250 could be added to them.

Knowing the distance guns-o-fun was talking makes all the difference in what can be used.

LONGTOM

Oldshooter · « **Reply #21 on:** October 28, 2009, 04:59:48 PM »

Quote from: Spanky on October 27, 2009, 02:12:55 PM

What's wrong with the .243 barrel that's on it now?

Spanky

Yea!!!!!, we are discussing this in another thread? The whitetail has not been born that can run very far with a 243 bullet passing thru his boiler room. I have never lost ONE! I have seen some shot with 300 win mags in the butt that ran off though! A well placed 243 bullet shot from a single shot rifle will do what it was intended to do!

briannmilewis · « **Reply #22 on:** October 28, 2009, 06:15:50 PM »

Quote from: JerryKo on October 28, 2009, 05:04:25 AM

To me long is past 300...shortrange is under 100 with medium being between. So buy this assumption, at least for DEER hunting most calibers mentioned are usable. That being said, my choice is, in a handi rifle, 25-06 with 117 to 120gr bullets. Mine shoots well enough with factory that I wouldnt hesitate at a 300 to 400 yard PERFECT shot. At ranges further than 500 I would be compelled to use my remmy 338Ultra Mag and a 300 gr high BC bullet. Just to be sure!
Jerry

Vote for Jerry too.

According to Remington's ballistic tables, the 25-06 and 7mm-08 are ballistic twins with the same bullets.

I read recently that a 25-06 using a 120gr modern bullet like Barnes-X, Swift A-frame, Nosler Partition, Remington Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded will take elk very reliably, at typical elk hunting distances. A friend of mine, a very experienced long-distance target shooter, took a doe elk at 300+ yards with a 7mm-08 a couple of years back, and it didn't go anywhere.

The 25-06 will produce about 20% more recoil for the same bullet weight in 7mm-08.

When I buy a long-distance deer gun, I think the 25-06 will be it, because it is considered a very good long-distance varmint rifle too.

Thanks for helping me make up my mind on this, I wasn't expecting a personal decision to come out of reading this topic.

tykempster · « **Reply #23 on:** October 29, 2009, 02:59:53 AM »

Here are my picks for top Handi-Rifle long distance performers-assuming a 100 yards zero on all. I'll go to 600 yards because not many Handis will really be competitive past there. Bring on the verbal abuse

I think any of these could drop the hammer on a deer at 600 yards if placed well.

243 with 95 grain SMK's at 3100 fps. (I use a .5 BC for these out of my 6mm Ackley at 3400)
If it had a faster twist it could really show some surprising ballistics.

300 yards
3.2 moa drop, 2541 fps & 1361 ft lbs

600 yards
10.8 moa drop, 2047 fps, 883 ft lbs

7mm-08 with 168 grain Bergers at 2700 fps

300 yards
4.3 moa drop, 2280 fps, 1938 ft lbs

600 yards
13.8 moa drop, 1899 fps, 1345 ft lbs

280 Ackley with 180 grain Bergers at 2850 fps (my favorite)

300 yards
3.73 moa drop, 2315 fps, 2140 ft lbs

600 yards
11.9 moa drop, 2070 fps, 1712 ft lbs

308 Winchester with 208 grain Hornadys at 2600 fps

300 yards
4.73 moa drop, 2208 fps, 2248 ft lbs

600 yards
14.83 moa drop, 1852 fps, 1582 ft lbs

30-06 Ackley with 208 grain Hornadys at 2850 fps (SHOCKING ballistics!)

300 yards
3.8 moa drop, 2436 fps, 2739 ft lbs

600 yards
12 moa drop, 2058 fps, 1955 ft lbs

So there ya have it, my top picks. The 280 Ackley with 180 Bergers is capable of some sweet ballistics at relatively low recoil, however if you're after max power the 30-06 Ackley can absolutely whoop up on factory 300 Win Mag loads! A friend has a 30-06 Ackley with a 22" barrel and gets 3k fps from 200 grain Accubonds. I slowed it considerably for comparison here, as that is one hot load.

rex6666 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 29, 2009, 04:29:47 AM »

Quote from: Oldshooter on October 28, 2009, 04:59:48 PM

Quote from: Spanky on October 27, 2009, 02:12:55 PM
What's wrong with the .243 barrel that's on it now?

Spanky

Yea!!!!!, we are discussing this in another thread? The whitetail has not been born that can run very far with a 243 bullet passing thru his boiler room. I have never lost ONE! I have seen some shot with 300 win mags in the butt that ran off though! A well placed 243 bullet shot from a single shot rifle will do what it was intended to do!

I LOVE IT!!!
I don't know how many times i have heard some YO-YO say " i have to get
a larger cal. deer gun, i lost one this season with this 243" all the while
i am watching him shoot the 243 at 100yard and can barily keep it on target
then i ask what do you want, hes says oh maybe 300mag. Some folks think
that a deer hit any where with a large cal. is going down.

JerryKo · « **Reply #25 on:** October 29, 2009, 04:44:46 AM »

Oh ya...50BMG! I think a hit anywhere on a whitetail and its DRT....he he...

Seriously...ANY size hole thru any vital will kill....eventually...

Ty...hard to contest that data...

Jerry

Default · « **Reply #26 on:** October 29, 2009, 05:02:23 AM »

Little off topic ,

Rex reminded me of a trip to the gun range a couple years ago , was sighting in my hunting rifle at 150 yards ( public range) and along comes this ol'boy with a marlin 30-30 one of the ugly spandex bullet holders on the stock with 6 rounds and a empty soda can ... I watch him load the rifle , throw the pop can as far as it will go with the range still being "hot" ( about 15 feet maybe) ... Then he came out blasting like Yosemite Sam ... And after all 6 rounds were depleted he said out loud " Yup that'll kill a deer" and left ...... Yeeeeaaaaahhhh , Guess everyones idea of exceptable accuracy from their hunting rig is different heh

Back on subject thou ... I dont think that it is a matter of this mans 243 being up for the task at hand at the ranges mentioned.... I Think, as I'm sure everyone here knows , That sometimes we men just want a new caliber or a new this or a new that .. Doesnt really matter that what we have already will do the job , We are always gonna want new toys

That being said , any of the calibers mentioned will do right by you .... now the fun part , Choosing which one lol

Default

Cottonwood · « **Reply #27 on:** October 29, 2009, 06:11:29 AM »

A .243 Win is an awesome deer caliber, and has also been known to put elk down. I hear all the time that the 7mm-08 is not enough gun from the 300 Win and .338 Win Mag crowd that believe bigger is better yadda yadda yadda. I almost was willing to put a Handi in .243 Win on layaway the other day

but my 7mm-08 needs to run the rest of my general firearms hunting season for now.

DCmauser · « **Reply #28 on:** October 29, 2009, 07:02:15 AM »

Would perhaps a re-bore of the existing .243 Win. bull barrel part of the plan?
If so, 260 Rem (.264/6.5mm) would be a plus +1 up size, and 7mm-08 (.284) plus +2 up.

Swampman · « **Reply #29 on:** October 29, 2009, 07:32:35 AM »

Quote from: kevinsmith5 on October 27, 2009, 02:37:38 PM

In a single shot and for a handloader the 30-30 is a good choice. I'd also put a vote in for 45-70. Check some of Tim's shooting with his, all I have is a BC, but it is my choice in long range work (takes practice).

Those would be my choices.