Why do my primers eject from the casing?

[rconnely]

When I shot my Savage 300WSM with Winchester Fail Safe 180gr it happened.  The action (Bolt) opened hard and I found 2 primers in the chamber where the bullet enters the barrel.  How is this possible? It never missfired so I assume they came out when I ejected the cartridge. I did not have a problem with the Winchester supreme 150 Grain loads? The shop that sold me the gun said it was excessive gas pressure, or the bullet was loaded too hot.
Send help please.

[gunnut69]

For the primer to come out the primer pocket.  The casehead had to expand, A LOT!!  Were these handloads or factory ammo??  If factory ammo you most assuredly have a problem.  No rifle should develope that much pressure with the correct factory ammo.. For the relatively straight cased WSM case to do that is especially troubling..  If they were handloads the were WAY to hot..

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Most likely waaay too hot----had a .257Wby do that with factory ammo.


If its not that----something is VERY wrong with chamber specs----or possibly incorrect ammo---maybe mislabeled or something of that sort.

[crow_feather]

The fail safe can not be loaded the same as other bulletsof the same weight.  If hand loaded, some one might have used load data for other 180 gr loads.  If it's factory, you might call winchester or whom ever made the bullet.

My two pennies

C F

[hillbill]

hey crow feather! just curious but why cant fail safe bullets be loaded to other 180 grn data? and RC find out whats going on with those ejected primers before you shoot that thing agin. that aint right at all. have handloaded for a long time and got kind of brave at times but never had that happen at all. you might have chamber checked  to be sure it aint loose or tite or sumpin. def wear bulletproof vest and glasses if you are so brave as to shoot it agin!

[Lawdog]

rconnely,

First let me Welcome you to Graybeard Outdoors, the best forum on the net for hunters/shooters today.  Now to your question.  For primers to come out either you have;

1.]  WAY to much pressure
2.]  Enlarged primer pockets
3.]  A problem with the chamber

If it was me I would package up what's left of those 180 gr. Fail Safe's and send them off to Winchester and get a receipt when they get it.  It could be a bad batch of ammo, it happens.  It could be that the wrong powder got into the cases during loading or that there was a bad batch of brass(I have had this happen).  If it isn't any of the above then take the rifle to a good gunsmith and have the barrel checked out.  I kind of think it's the ammo because you said there was no problem with Winchester Supreme 150 gr. loads.  Whatever DO NOTshoot that rifle again until it's checked out.  Keep us informed on what you find out.  Again Welcome Aboard.  Lawdog

[rconnely]

All is good input especially the gunsmith part. Thanks for the help.

[crow_feather]

Hillbill,

I have seen published loading data - of course I can't seem to find it when I need it - that show the fail safe seperate from other bullets of the same weight with a drop of 1 to 2 grains of powder.  I thought it might have something to do with the bearing surface of the bullet but I really don't know why.

[crow_feather]

Hilbill,

If you go to Alliant's reloading data on the net, you will see:

---------Speer 180-------Win Fail Safe 180
RL15-----48.5-------------------47.0
RL19-----60---------------------57.2
RL22-----60---------------------59

I have seen data the same as above in other locations but my mind - being the second thing to quit since I got old, will not help me at this time.  When I jump up in church hollering "Ramshot Reloading Manual" most people beside me know what's happened.  

C F

[hillbill]

hey crow feather! that sure is odd thing with that data you showed on the win fail safe bull. better than a grain reduction in max loads. im not familair with the fail safe bullets, are they a moly coated bullet or a black colored bullet or am i thinking of the black talon bullets? even if bearing surface is longer i would think it wouldnt be more that a few thou longer and wouldnt have that much increase in pressure, but i learn new thing s most everyday. happy huntin!

[Mikey]

before rconnely but, if the ammo was new factory stuff it should go right back with a well detailed explanation of what happened.  If it was handloaded I would take another hard look at how it was loaded.

I have never heard of or seen a primer that popped out.  I have had flattened primers and punctured primers but not one that ever 'popped' out.  If you pressure was too high the primer would have flattened or been punctured.  Under either circumstance, whether flattened or punctured, or popped, it may have made ejecting the case or working the bolt difficult.

The only reason I can think for a primer to 'pop' out after firing is if whoever loaded it used the wrong size primer.  If you still have them check to see if they are the large rifle primer, they may have inadvertantly used small rifle primers instead and if they use a sealant in the case it would have stayed in until fired.  

I'm sure not the know it all here but something doesn't sound right about this.  M2C.  Mikey.

[crow_feather]

Mikey,

It is possible to pop a correct size primer. I know for a fact.  What happens is the primer pocket enlarges so much that when you open the action, the primer falls out.  You also get a lot of crap in your eye.  That's why I aleays wear glasses when I shoot.

C F

[Muddyboots]

First stop using the ammo period. Fail Safe bullets cannot and must not be loaded to any where near similar weighted bullets. Their bearing surface and alloy is significantly different from most bullets. Max loads are usually 2 grains or so less than similar weighted bullets. Loose primer pockets are result of way over pressure loads and will cause primers to fall out if someone not realizing insufficient primer pocket tension to hold new primers. Hot loads only lead to dangerous situations. The extra 50 fps ain't worth your eyes or other body parts or bystanders. Every time you fire a hot load, the receiver is stressed and after time will change the metallurgy of the steel. Failure can be over time and not necessarily immediate. I would pull remainder of loads and get a loading manual that provides the proper data. Even then, think about watching for excessive pressure, everything from flattened primers (which is not definitive of pressure), case head measurements, stiff bolt and get a chronograph to see if velocity is in neighborhood. Back down loads so they get job done and not destroy rifle and body appendages.
Muddyboots

[rconnely]

Finally the store where I purchased the FACTORY FRESH ammo found that it was the ammo but really didn't have an explination.  We even tried loading a spent casing into the gun and the bolt was EXTREMELY hard to work, even harder in a new gun. I got a box of the CXP2 Ballistic Silvertip 150 gr instead of the CXP 3 Fail Safe 180 gr that gave me the problems.  The gun works great now!! I sent 20 rounds through it without a problem and just last Thursday dropped a small nubbin buck at about 550 yds in the third shot.