Author Topic: 357 vs 30/30 in short barrel (Read 1962 times)

j350hp · « **on:** October 02, 2009, 03:27:51 AM »

ok guys i got such good ideas from the last post im posing another ? . i want to purchase a new barrel to cut down to 16 1/4 inches for a nifty little tote and carry. i live in thick brush and occasional openings. im thinking 357 or 30/30 for good cheap ammo. the numbers i got for 357 in 16 inch barrel is 125gr moving at 2026 and 30/30 125 managed recoil from remington moving at 2175. my question is have any of u guys done this already and wich of these do u think will be the less audible and blinding from muzzle flash. i know ballistically they look the same but it seems to me the 357 would be alot more tame in the longer barrel. but i am not for sure so im coming to u guys. oh yeah thanks for all the help on my last 45 colt ? post.

gendoc · « **Reply #1 on:** October 02, 2009, 03:49:07 AM »

it took alot of load development to get my 357
to function with a 125gr bullet....
it now does handle them but, thats my onion----

yours may vary.....
it much perfers the 158gr with many different load configurations
work'n on the 180gr and 200gr cast now.
its come'n around....
good luck

JerryKo · « **Reply #2 on:** October 02, 2009, 04:41:10 AM »

Mine is now a max,...and at 22" altogether different, but I got over 2500fps with hardly any noticieable recoil with a 125gr jacketed softpoint. I also had muffs on and did not really notice the muzzleblast. The grouping looked around 1 1/4" at 25yrds and open sights. (not real good) I was just curious as to how fast it would go with a know charge I was using for a 200gr bullet.

I think I would go with 357 over the 30/30 though for what you seem to be after.

Jerry

petemi · « **Reply #3 on:** October 02, 2009, 06:09:06 AM »

Jerry, mine doesn't shoot at all well with 125 gr. bullets. It never did, mag or .38. In the .357 Mag and .38 mode, it likes 158 gr. The max likes 180 gr.

j350hp, the .38, .357 Mag/Max is a lot cheaper to shoot than the .30-30 with factory ammo. The Max will do anything your .30-30 can at about the same cost.......but, you can't get .30-30 shorts, but you can get .38s

Get my point?

Pete

canon6 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 02, 2009, 06:33:06 AM »

My short '357(17 inches) does not shoot 125's very well. I flat loves 180 fngc without a lot of fuss.Mild recoil to boot.It does like any 158's I feed it 8 or 357. hth Doug

petemi · « **Reply #5 on:** October 02, 2009, 06:43:28 AM »

Just thinkin a little. If ya got the .357, reamed it to max, you could shoot all these .38s, .357 Mag, .360 D.W. and .357 Max.

38 Colt Special
38 S. & W. Special
38 Targetmaster (R)
38 S. & W. Special Mid-Rage
38 Special (+P)
38-44 Special (+P)
38 Special
38 Special Flat Point
-------------------------------------------------------------
38 Short Colt in 38 Long Colt but not conversely;
Both can be used in a .38 Special

It would make a very nice shortened truck gun, and super versatile.

Pete

j350hp · « **Reply #6 on:** October 02, 2009, 06:48:41 AM »

357 max is cool for sure but i dont reload as of yet. i was using the 125 gr bullets as a comparison and i can step up to the 158 gr no problem if thats what the gun likes. i know 357 and 30/30 can be had anywhere where i live cheap. what grain bullets u guys shootin in your 30/30 do they like the lighter bullets r do the prefer the heavier.

blind ear · « **Reply #7 on:** October 02, 2009, 06:58:35 AM »

From what i have heard the twist rate in the 30 30 is set more toward 170 gr bullets related to the length of the projectile and the average speed. Others will know more. eddiegjr

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** October 02, 2009, 07:05:42 AM »

My 30-30 Handi shoots the 150gr Rem ammo just fine, the 1:10" twist shoots lighter bullets great, my 30-30AI shoot nice groups with the 125gr Sierra PH, both groups shot at 100yds.

Tim

petemi · « **Reply #9 on:** October 02, 2009, 07:25:27 AM »

Quote from: j350hp on October 02, 2009, 06:48:41 AM

357 max is cool for sure but i dont reload as of yet.

You don't have to reload for the Max. ammobank.com has them as well as, I believe, Reeds Amo. I got 100 rounds from ammobank, 180 gr. SJHPs with free shipping.

Pete

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #10 on:** October 02, 2009, 07:44:50 AM »

If you are interested in efficiency, the 357 is the way for you to go. It will also be quieter, which I think you said you were intrested in as well. I have harvested several Mule deer with the 357 out of rifles, and it does a fine job. Please don't go lighter than 158 with jacketed bullets, and use soft points not hollow points for better penetration. You are looking at a very "Handi" set-up.

After you use it awhile, then you can consider reaming to the Max. DP

xhare · « **Reply #11 on:** October 02, 2009, 07:57:37 AM »

Since you said you dont reload, it is worth noting that most 30-30 ammo does not achieve its advertised velocities from even 24 inch barrels. This is not just a problem with 30-30 ammo, it is very common in the industry because standard barrels differ from test barrels, most notably the chamber specs. It might be worth doing some research to see what kind of velocities both the 357 and 30-30 produce out of a 16.25 inch barrel.

J. J. Magnum · « **Reply #12 on:** October 02, 2009, 08:18:50 AM »

When it comes down to it I don't have a Handie in either caliber, BUT I did have a Winchester 94 Trapper (16" barrel) in 30-30 and it was "Holy S#$%!" loud every time it went off. During the early morning and evening hours it had a BRIGHT muzzle flash too.

I have an IMI Timberwolf in 357 (pump action) and it is much more quiet and very pleasant to shoot. I think the barrel on that is 20".

Since the 357 was designed to burn most of its powder in a 6" barrel I think you probably get the maximum efficiency out of it in a longer barrel. The 30-30 on the other hand was designed to shoot from longer barrels hence the excessive flash of powder buring outside the muzzle in shorter barrels.

I agree with others, the short 357 would make a nifty truck gun.

j350hp · « **Reply #13 on:** October 02, 2009, 10:04:15 AM »

jj im i think u hit the nail on the head for me and i was just looking the barrels are tapped for scopes. i also thought that since the 357 was geared toward 6 to 8 inch barrels a 16 inch would be a delight. so heres another question i have a fairly old h&r shotgun can i put the 357 barrel on it.

j350hp · « **Reply #14 on:** October 02, 2009, 10:10:21 AM »

ok petemi i just found the 357 max ammo on reeds sight and not a bad price. so heres another ? (by the way thanks for being patient and answering my question) if i ream my barrel out to 357 max will it affect the 357 accuracy at all.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** October 02, 2009, 10:13:10 AM »

Quote from: j350hp on October 02, 2009, 10:04:15 AM

so heres another question i have a fairly old h&r shotgun can i put the 357 barrel on it.

H&R won't fit 357mag barrels, or any barrel, to frames made before 1987, see the FAQs for build year info.

Tim

j350hp · « **Reply #16 on:** October 02, 2009, 10:21:18 AM »

ok thanks

petemi · « **Reply #17 on:** October 02, 2009, 10:35:54 AM »

Quote from: j350hp on October 02, 2009, 10:10:21 AM

ok petemi i just found the 357 max ammo on reeds sight and not a bad price. so heres another ? (by the way thanks for being patient and answering my question) if i ream my barrel out to 357 max will it affect the 357 accuracy at all.

I had a .357 Mag that was a tack driver and I was afraid to ream it and perhaps spoil it. I got the second .357, also a tack driver and I said to myself "the heck with it, go for it". I did, and it didn't change a thing. It shoots the whole program well. I'm thinking now to perhaps cut the other to 16.5, ream, it to Max and put a youth synthetic stock and a scout mount red dot scope on it for a farm truck gun. The youth stock and the red dot should work well together. No scope-eye and no need for a hammer spur.

Pete

mannyrock · « **Reply #18 on:** October 02, 2009, 11:10:51 AM »

You don't have to cut the barrel of a .30-30 down to 16 inches. Marlin made (or still makes) the "Spikehorn" lever action in .30-30 with a 16 inch barrel.

But, I have seen people shoot them, and they regret buying them. Horrendus noise, muzzle blast, etc. All for what? A handy, close up deer rifle? There are far better choices.

The Marlin model 1894 in .357 magnum is a great little rifle, very handy, and will take deer out to 100 yards. Almost no recoil to speak of, no muzzle blast, cheap factory ammo in lots of different bullets, and very fun to shoot. And if you really want to, you can buy some factory hot-loaded (but normal pressure) rounds from Buffalo Bore (and perhaps Garrett), and have near .30-30 performance from your .357. (Totally unnecessary however in my opinion for deer up to 100 yrds.)

Regards,

Mannyrock

myarmor · « **Reply #19 on:** October 02, 2009, 11:18:30 AM »

I hate to throw a wrench in the works, but have you thought about a 44mag for your carbine project?
It and the 357 work great with short barrels....

-Aaron

ssjohnnie · « **Reply #20 on:** October 02, 2009, 11:29:15 AM »

I had a contender 14 in 30/30 and it was very loud and muzzel flash in the dim light of early AM was blinding I would go with the 357 and i am not a big fan of the 357 like my 45 colt much better just my two cents worth

gendoc · « **Reply #21 on:** October 02, 2009, 12:22:00 PM »

don't mean to change the subject but,

tim.. thats a gud pitcher of ya while ya fish'n...!!!!

j350hp · « **Reply #22 on:** October 02, 2009, 12:26:30 PM »

h&r web sight said 45 discontinued

Datil · « **Reply #23 on:** October 02, 2009, 12:44:16 PM »

Tim, I like the looks of the old guy in the new Picture!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marv.

Dweezil · « **Reply #24 on:** October 02, 2009, 01:28:20 PM »

Quote from: j350hp on October 02, 2009, 10:04:15 AM

jj im i think u hit the nail on the head for me and i was just looking the barrels are tapped for scopes. i also thought that since the 357 was geared toward 6 to 8 inch barrels a 16 inch would be a delight. so heres another question i have a fairly old h&r shotgun can i put the 357 barrel on it.

If you're willing to do a little work yourself, yes you can. Look on about page 3 of this forum for "My$65 Do It Yourself Handi." I just did one with an 8.5" .357 barrel permanently attached inside a 20" 12ga barrel. Since it's permanently attached and can't be turned back into a functional shotgun, I could go as short as 16" but since I still wanted it to look like a shotgun, I'm keeping it above 18 just so ignorant folks don't get "weird" on me. My donor shotgun was a newer one, safe for .357 and.44mag. How old is your shotgun"

quickdtoo · « **Reply #25 on:** October 02, 2009, 02:41:18 PM »

Quote from: j350hp on October 02, 2009, 12:26:30 PM

h&r web sight said 45 discontinued

No it doesn't, it says No Longer Available just like several other barrels that are out of stock, the only barrel that's discontinued that I know of is the 450Marlin barrel.

Thanks Marv and Gendoc, got tired of the old avatar, figured it was time for a new pic, notice the hat?

Tim

http://www.hr1871.com/Support/accessoryProgram.asp

LONGTOM · « **Reply #26 on:** October 02, 2009, 03:19:48 PM »

Tim:
I think the new pic makes you look younger!

I still like the 30/30.
Not that it's better than the 357 or for any real reason except I do have 2 Win 16" trappers.
One in 45 colt and one in 30/30.
Just never used a 357 much.

LONGTOM

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** October 02, 2009, 03:34:02 PM »

I agree with LT on the 30-30, plus it's good to 200yds and a bit more if needed, unless it's reamed to Max, the 357mag is effective to about half that range.

Thanks LT, I'll be sure to tell my younger wife you said that!

Tim

j350hp · « **Reply #28 on:** October 02, 2009, 04:16:58 PM »

ok so it can come back good but until then im thinkin 357.

44 Man · « **Reply #29 on:** October 03, 2009, 04:07:09 AM »

I have to jump in here. Since I own an older Topper in 30-30 with the tapered barrel, to me that is the pinnacle of light and handy. Yes, it is a 22", thought of cutting it to 18" or 20" but haven't felt it was necessary. (you have to know that I'm a real fan of SHORT barrels!) I really like the heft and feel of the tapered barrel as opposed to the present bull barrel that H&R is using. My self, I would go the 30-30 route with an older Topper and the 125 gr bullets. That said, I hope my next purchase is one of the .45 lc guns! I think they are so neat! And I do plan to own a .357 some day also. And Tim, I like your new pic better too. You do look younger. Maybe I should look up a new pic. 44 Man