Author Topic: Wanting to start with Black Power in my BC (Read 1460 times)

bajabill · « **on:** October 01, 2009, 07:19:56 AM »

I am considering a new endeavor.

First off would be reaming to 45-90 (2.4"). I have always wanted to do this but cant make the justification while limiting myself to smokeless. 45-70 is quite enough with that fuel. Does anyone use their 45-90 for BP and still shoot smokeless 45-70 with it also?

Then, for the black powder aspect. I would like to keep it easy. I dont want to start molding bullets.

Can I use pyrodex or 777, jacketed bullets, and not need to lube? This would let me use the same components I already have for smokeless loading and muzzleloading. I also think it would simplify barrel maintenance (unless bullet lube helps with this).

bajabill · « **Reply #1 on:** October 03, 2009, 04:44:24 AM »

must not be too common

brianscott12 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2009, 06:38:07 AM »

Lol, I have been actually toying around with the idea myself but don't want the mess to clean up. I would be anxious to hear some replies though.

Lazermule · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2009, 04:32:34 PM »

I have always been too scared to do it because of corrosion attributed with the black powder.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 04, 2009, 08:57:35 AM »

Using good lube and promptly cleaning after shooting there is little reason to worry about BP corrosion. Head down to the BPCR (BLack Powder Cartridge Reloading) section and prepare to be buried in info.

Badnews Bob · « **Reply #5 on:** October 04, 2009, 09:31:38 AM »

I did it for a while in my .357s, .38-55 and .45-70. It was fun but I didn't think it was worth the effort. I used store bought bullets cast only prelubed with SPG lube, i never tried jacketed bullets. Any of the subs will work just the same but I think 777 is hotter.
The smoke and noise with BP was fun but modern powders work much better. IMHO.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** October 04, 2009, 09:40:40 AM »

Considering the cost of 777 which is almost as much as smokeless and the amount used, smokeless is the only way to go for me, I've shot it in my 45-120, 95gr 777 vs ~40gr of 5744 for about the same velocity, smokeless is a no brainer if you only consider cost, but where's the fun in that!!

Tim

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 04, 2009, 09:49:30 AM »

My foray into BP shooting was mostly because it was all I could get locally, but I've resigned myself to trips to the Western part of the state every couple of months to buy powder and primers. Shot Pyrodex and Swiss FFG well, and was fun. Still have some loaded and might do it again occasionally.

bajabill · « **Reply #8 on:** October 05, 2009, 06:43:39 AM »

I talked to someone at the reloading store, and he gave me loads of confidence. He loaded a lot of 45-70 and 45-90 with 777 and topped with an off the shelf lead bullet, pre-lubed, and most likely not BP lube. No need for a wad, special lube tools, gas checks, etc.

I am hoping that I can maintain a good 45-70 shooter with reaming .30" deeper. I dont have any problems with the .30" jump in my Max or Super Mag. But I dont shoot the shorter cases very much. I might play around with the 45-70 first and see if thats is enough to scratch the itch.

or, is the 45-90 one of the reamers to be on the Graybeard circulation?

LONGTOM · « **Reply #9 on:** October 05, 2009, 08:03:32 AM »

I did try loose Pyrodex in some 45 colt loads once and while lots of fun, the mess and corroded cases put a stop to it.
I now only use CLEAN SHOT which has since changed its name to PIONEER POWDER INC.
This stuff has no sulfur smell or the corrosion that comes with BP or the other subs.
I have been using it for several years now and love it.
I intend to use it in one of my BCs whenever I get it reamed to 120 behind a 300gr JHP in hopes of being able to duplicate the velocity of the smokeless factory loads using the same bullet.
Don't need anymore speed, just want the old time feel of BP with out the mess.
That is if the gun likes the 300s.
May have to go to 405s to stabilize but would prefer not to go any heavier.

Will just have to see what the gun likes.

LONGTOM

JerryKo · « **Reply #10 on:** October 05, 2009, 08:32:47 AM »

I have used Goex, 777, and clean shot. Rifle cleanup is easy. Its the brass that is a pain! All cases will turn a fuzzy green from these powders. I found switching to nickle cases has helped but there is still inside the case scrubbing that needs to be done. I would def dedicate only a small lot of brass to try. A bottle of water with some vinegar is helpful to drop your fired cases into to prevent the corrosion before you get home. Good luck...other than that they are a real hoot. I always love the smoke after a few rounds that lingers on a cool still day. I couldnt imagine a battefield full of thousands of fired rounds a minute. Im allergic to sulfa...the smoke alone would probably have been enough to get me.
Jerry

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** October 05, 2009, 08:49:49 AM »

Hodgdon has Pyrodex and 777 cartridge data in their muzzleloading download, be sure to read all of their warnings.

Tim

http://hodgdon.com/ml-warning.html

mechanic · « **Reply #12 on:** October 05, 2009, 11:50:31 AM »

I've loaded some with Blackhorn. All the fun, none of the mess or corrosion.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 05, 2009, 11:57:07 AM »

Around here that is $36 a 10 oz bottle. Mighty steep to avoid clean-up.

mechanic · « **Reply #14 on:** October 05, 2009, 12:15:10 PM »

Quote from: kevinsmith5 on October 05, 2009, 11:57:07 AM

Around here that is $36 a 10 oz bottle. Mighty steep to avoid clean-up.

Yep, you are correct. I got some at a discount but it's still expensive. As a matter of fact, all the subs are expensive compared to smokeless.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 05, 2009, 12:43:25 PM »

I get Pyrodex for $19 a bottle at the local Walmart and Swiss FFG for $25. Not terribly more than using smokeless.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** October 05, 2009, 02:03:48 PM »

It's a LOT more than smokeless considering you have to use a full case! $:-\$

Tim

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 05, 2009, 03:05:17 PM »

400 gr cast bullets with a varget load run about 40 gr. for 1300 fps. 55 gr of pyrodex with a vegetable wad and a cookie get ya up to 1200 fps out of a 32" barrel. With the price difference in smokeless it seems pretty close.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** October 05, 2009, 03:44:29 PM »

Use a different powder, SR4759, 5744, IMR4198 all use less powder to get that velocity, 777 is $20 a bottle here, smokeless is $22.

Tim

mechanic · « **Reply #19 on:** October 05, 2009, 04:13:04 PM »

I lucked up on some Blackhorn for $20.00 a jug, and have loaded some 45-70 with it just because. Triple seven is just too corrosive to suit me. I don't like to clean every few shots. Yep, I'm spoiled but so be it. I load my light loads with Varget, and even with full loads, it's still a lot cheaper than BP subs at full price. The Blackhorn just creates a spectacle at the range, and people are naturally curious. Remember you average shooter has never shot BP type cartridge, and most are amazed that it shoots as well as it does. I'm sure a gazillion buffalo were surprized as well. I also shoot a hollow base bullet, which is tailor made for BP or low velocity loads. I can shoot almost pure lead with no noticeable leading and very good accuracy. I can also load at the range with my nifty Lee loader if I want. It's all in fun. Otherwise I would just go and buy a box of bullets and be done with it.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 05, 2009, 04:38:40 PM »

Quick, those Pyrodex and Varget loads were all I could get unless I wanted to mail order (ever seen the cost of THAT shipping) or drive 2 hours. I eventually started driving 2 hours.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** October 05, 2009, 04:52:11 PM »

I hear ya there, powder has just become available again here in the last couple months, primers come and go. $:-\$

Tim

Chancy Shot · « **Reply #22 on:** October 06, 2009, 10:52:33 AM »

I would like to jump in here. I am currently shooting a BC in 45/70 and using black powder.

Here are my costs as close as I can figure - Graff FFFg at about $19 per lb. (bought 5 lb. at a time including shipping and hazmat fee). I am using 65 grains so that is about $0.18. I am using a 405 grain RNFP from Chey-Cast prelubed with BP lube at about $0.30 each. Add a Circle Fly 1/8" wad for $0.01 each. As for primers, your guess is as good as mine. I have not included the cost of brass.

With the BP lube, I fire 1 fouling round, then it doesn't get touched until I am done shooting. Accuracy is not impared because the BP lube keeps the fouling soft. I do have a jug of water with a squirt of dish soap to put the spent brass in. By the time I get home from the range, they have been agitated by the ride and all that is needed is a rinse off. I put them in the vibrator to shine them up, but that is not required.

Black powder fouling is not that corrosive, but is does draw moisture. I clean my BC by taking the barrel into the sink and washing it down with really hot water and a couple of patches. The barrel is dry almost immediately due to the heat of the water. I use Baslitol after the wash for lubrication. I wipe down the reciever with Balistol, also. Petroleum based lubrication will react with the BP to form a nasty stuff that is really hard to clean up (Don't ask me how I know.

). I find this to be a really easy clean-up routine.

The thing that is hard to quantify is the WooHoo factor. I just have fun shooting this thing.

Chancy

bajabill · « **Reply #23 on:** November 12, 2009, 04:47:04 AM »

one month later,

got myself some of those pre lubed cast bullets, for about $14/100 and a can of 777 for about $23 and went to work.

Determined seating depth, filled the case with powder up to the point I was going to seat to, then measured that powder - 43gn - and loaded up 10 rounds. It may be a couple of weeks before these get to be fired however.

These are actually going to be about the cheapest rounds I make since the recent runup on bullet prices. Seems I am spending almost $30/100 for bullets in many of the rounds I load for lately. Primers went up $.01 and powder has only increased slightly.

bajabill · « **Reply #24 on:** December 06, 2009, 06:31:03 PM »

well, today all of them went bang, and pufff

pushin a 405 bullet at over 1300 fps.

rsl · « **Reply #25 on:** December 07, 2009, 03:47:06 AM »

I use 777 and Pioneer in both BC and Target BC in 38/55. super easy clean up but as stated above cases are a mess.. Folks get a kick out of the smoke at the range.. Have fun..