Musta been some crazy cast bullets........45/70 All well now !

[GeorgiaDave]

Hello from Georgia,

   I recently had an episode with my 45/70 Handi. I acquired some 405 gr. and 300 gr. Cast bullets, and loaded them a bit warmer than stock, but could not get them to group at all. They seemed to go pretty much where they wanted, without much consistancy at all. I thought the scope may have given up, and re-double checked the mounts when I put on the new scope. Same craziness. This fifle used to shoot easy 1" groups, so I was sure that it was not the rifle. So, what is a guy to do ? Well, I just came back with some fresh powder, primers, and bullets from a world class reload supplier and pressed a few moderate load 350 gr. JACKETED bullets.I am truly impressed and satisfied already. 50 yard bore shot groups shot an almost one hole group a few inches high. This afternoon my cousin-in-law and I shot a few rounds across my canyon, at ranges drom 70 yards to a bit over 100 and this fifle is deathly accurate right now ! I can not wait to shoot some 100 yard groups on paper just to see how well it does actually hold tight.
   I am eager to hear if anyone else has experienced this nonsence when shooting cast bullets. I am thinking that gas checks may be needed when shooting hot loads behind the lead bullets. With the low melting point of lead, would that not cause some deterioration of the bullet?. I have never had much luck with cast bullets, and will likely continue shooting some good jacked slugs.


Dave

[45-70.gov]

Hello from Georgia,

   I recently had an episode with my 45/70 Handi. I acquired some 405 gr. and 300 gr. Cast bullets, and loaded them a bit warmer than stock, but could not get them to group at all. They seemed to go pretty much where they wanted, without much consistancy at all. I thought the scope may have given up, and re-double checked the mounts when I put on the new scope. Same craziness. This fifle used to shoot easy 1" groups, so I was sure that it was not the rifle. So, what is a guy to do ? Well, I just came back with some fresh powder, primers, and bullets from a world class reload supplier and pressed a few moderate load 350 gr. JACKETED bullets.I am truly impressed and satisfied already. 50 yard bore shot groups shot an almost one hole group a few inches high. This afternoon my cousin-in-law and I shot a few rounds across my canyon, at ranges drom 70 yards to a bit over 100 and this fifle is deathly accurate right now ! I can not wait to shoot some 100 yard groups on paper just to see how well it does actually hold tight.
   I am eager to hear if anyone else has experienced this nonsence when shooting cast bullets. I am thinking that gas checks may be needed when shooting hot loads behind the lead bullets. With the low melting point of lead, would that not cause some deterioration of the bullet?. I have never had much luck with cast bullets, and will likely continue shooting some good jacked slugs.


Dave

check  and see if the bore is tighter at the breach than at the muzzle

[BrianB]

I tested some Lee mold 340 grain 45-70's earlier this week.  Cast from wheel weights, water cooled, unsized and Alox lubed.  Using 41 grains of Reloder-7 pushing them at about 1,500fps I got a one inch group at 75 yards.  No barrel leading, either.  One note: When I went to 43 grains of RL-7, groups got ridiculous.  Partially because my hands were sweating and the fore stock was coming out of my hand, the other being the recoil was making me flinch. (No, I'm not being a whimp. My shoulder was sore for three days and the broken blood vessels are still slightly visible! I swear!) The bullets drop from the mold at about .459 and the Handi appears to like them.

[Lefty Dude]

If you push cast bullets hard, you best have gas checks. Or just stick with jacketed bullets.

[OldBob]

  Kinda keep in mind that the 45-70 was born shooting cast bullets, and doing it dang well too ! That being said, it is also a fact that cast bullets require some work to shoot properly, there are several major considerations, exact bore size, hardness of alloy, type of lube, velocity, just to name a few. Gas checks are usually not necessary at normal 45-70 velocitys, when you get to the higher , modern rifle velocity, they are, but by then you will be pretty sore from the beating the Handi dishes out  Jacketed bullets are easier to get to perform well, but cast bullets will shoot excellent once you have done the necessary work, plus its a hoot to "roll yer own" bullets. Have a look at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php for some of the best cast bullet info on the "net".
Both of my 45-70 handis seem to be happy with .459 bullets, ALOX lube and velocity in the 1250-1450 range.

[PawPaw]

If you push cast bullets hard, you best have gas checks. Or just stick with jacketed bullets.

That's a fact!  I don't push plain based bullets much faster than 1300 fps.  Any faster than that, I switch to gas checked.  And, I want those plain-based bullets to be nearly pure soft lead.  We're replicating muzzle-loader velocity and need the bullet to be soft enough to fully obdurate with low-pressure loads.

My particular Handi in .45-70 likes 405 grain bullets pushed to about 1300 fps with a mild load of IMR 4895.  It doesn't like the 500 grain bullets at all.  I save the 500 grain bullets for the Sharps, which I load with black powder. 

I don't think I've ever shot a jacketed bullet in a .45-70.  I understand that some folks like them and do well with them, but I've never tried them.  The old lead bullets work fine for my purposes.

[John Boy]

I have never had much luck with cast bullets ...

Dave, cast bullets are the only ones I use in the 45-70 and with black powder and iron sights and between 1150 to 1220 fps.  There is no reason to hot rod them for good accuracy or even use jackets

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,119506.0.html

[Graycg]

I'll bet if  you measure those bullets that someone like over sized them and they are just too small for your bore. 

regards,
 Graycg