Author Topic: Anyone use 22 Hornet Nickel cases? Reloading advise for the little guy? (Read 1063 times)

myarmor · « **on:** September 09, 2009, 04:45:39 PM »

I am about to get my 22 Hornet soon, and am thinking of where to start with it. I personally didn't see much need for the little fella, sence my 223's have done it all very well for me. But FUN is a good word

and everyone that seems to own a Hornet raves about it so I took the plunge

I know that Nickel cases get a bad rap, but it seems to mostly be from Full Length Sizing. I have heard good reports from fellas using Nickel plated cases in other cals by only Neck Sizing. Seems that Nickel case should be be a little stronger, and that seems to translate to me longer case life, something the 22 Hornet can benefit from. Any of you Hornet shooters use Nickel cases?

-Aaron

Graybeard · « **Reply #1 on:** September 09, 2009, 05:11:44 PM »

I think most folks giving nickel plated cases a bum rap are folks who've never used them. I have in many cartridges and have yet to find any negatives for them.

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** September 09, 2009, 06:20:26 PM »

My only experience with them is in 17 Remington. They do look nice and they feed well. Biggest problem is that when new, the case mouth is rough with the plating, so you have to ream it some for bullet seating. Then two out of the twelve I shot split the neck, which caused flyers for me. After re-sizing, quite a lot of the plating flaked off, so I have a 10 sitting here, if you want them they are yours. Now a Hornet may be a whole different ball game, but if you want to reload over and over I think I would stick with plain brass with bottle neck cases. Larry

krod47nw · « **Reply #3 on:** September 09, 2009, 07:39:08 PM »

I prefer nickel cases. they clean easier, and don't tarnish. I don't think they are stronger, or weaker. They are the same case with nickel plating. I really haven't had any problems with the plating flaking off like some mention. It will wear thin after many firings, but the cases are still useable.

Kevin

briannmilewis · « **Reply #4 on:** September 09, 2009, 08:28:02 PM »

I have put 1,000 rounds thru my H&R 22 Hornet since late 2008.

I have reloaded about 700 rounds.

I have not seen nickel cases for 22 Hornet, but I have just been reloading the 300 factory cases so I have not gone looking yet.

I have read a lot about reloading in the past year, and nickel cases are generally considered harder on your reloading dies, and seem to be most popular in handgun cases.

If you want to extend the Hornet case life, get your Hornet reamed to K-Hornet (a do-it-yourself or $50 smith ream) it puts a 40 deg shoulder on the case that resists brass flow. Cases are then fire-formed. You can shoot regular Hornet ammo accurately anytime in the K chamber.

Annealing the necks seems to be a very positive thing to improve case life also.

Then there are mild, low pressure loads that do not stress the brass.

You said, "I personally didn't see much need for the little fella,...".

How about a good (2500fps) coyote gun to 150 yards, using 13gr of powder, so you get 700 reloads from 1lb of powder?

Also, you can load very mild (10700 CUP compared to 43000 CUP max load) to 1085fps (sub-sonic) and shoot near houses etc. without annoying anyone. My two sons (14 & 15) love the Hornet, they snipe clay targets at 100 yards and take that over video games everytime.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #5 on:** September 10, 2009, 12:12:41 AM »

I have a bag of about 300 I have been hording...

I LIKE nickle brass!! I use it for many of my final hunting loads for easy identifications.

I haven't had any problems others report.

CW

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** September 10, 2009, 12:43:36 AM »

I've been loading nickel brass especially in .38 special and .357 magnum nearly as long as I've been reloading. I've NEVER seen it flake off. I've heard folks report it but never seen it. I have loaded .38 and .357 cases until I wore it almost clean down to the brass underneath with no flaking and no problems.

Since folks report it happening to them I'm sure some cases must flake but I think it has to be a rare exception not the rule.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** September 10, 2009, 05:10:36 AM »

I've only used three flavors of nickle brass, 280, 30-06 and 45-70, all work fine for me, the only issue I've had was when necking up 30-06 brass to 338-06, first one split, thought maybe it was bad brass, second one did too, never wasted any more. $:-\$

Tim

myarmor · « **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2009, 07:56:41 AM »

Thanks for the input guys, Most of what I heard was what you stated with flaking and scaring up dies. But neck sizing brass doesn't work the brass as much. And yes I have read up over the years about the K-Hornet, and like what I see, though I want to play with the Hornet itself for awhile and see how I like it.

I was curious as well about Nickel brass in the 30-30 as both have close deminsions but different sizes.

Also what lb of powder should I start with, Lil-Gun or H-110? As well as Primers SR or SP?

briannmilewis · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2009, 09:08:35 AM »

I used L'il Gun. One of the reasons is that you can stuff the case full without measuring and seat a bullet with a bevelled base, or you can fill the case, brush off about 1mm of powder, and seat flat based bullets. If you don't brush off a little powder from a full case and try to seat a flat based bullet, guaranteed you will crush your case neck...been there and done that.

Of course you can measure L'il Gun too, which I also did a bunch of. However, the full case and boat tail bullets just seemed as good as any other load I worked up, and it is very accurate and also low pressure, so it helps with case life.

You CANNOT stuff Hornet cases with any other powder like you can with L'il Gun. If you do, you may KILL YOURSELF OR OTHERS, unless there is a loading manual that says different.

myarmor · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2009, 09:12:58 AM »

I have heard that H-110 is pressure sensitive.

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2009, 09:42:06 AM »

Most all powders are pressure sensitive to some degree. You DEFINITELY CANNOT fill a case with H110/W296 safely. I've never loaded Lil' Gun in a Hornet to my recollection.

I don't think I'd chose nickel cases if I were going to change the diameter of the case mouth such as Tim mentioned but for using them as issued I've had no problems with them. I've used them for 7-30 extensively and loaded and sized them many times. I've loaded them in a few other chamberings but not so extensively other than the straight wall pistol rounds.

myarmor · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2009, 03:04:47 PM »

True, I have just read that H-110 usually works at a higher pressure than Lil-Gun, so I see the advantages. How are the Velocities with Lil-Gun though? I am not looking to Hot-Rod the little guy, my 223's do just fine in that direction, but I don't want 22Mag velocities either $:-\$
Bill I agree I would be a little leary about necking up or down with Nickel cases, again all from what I have heard though. But I don't fault ya Tim for giving it a try

we learn from experience of our own as well as others. I would have at least tried it once to see the result as well.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2009, 03:10:38 PM »

I was apprehensive about it, but Mac thought it would work, so I tried it again, but I learned otherwise.

Tim

myarmor · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2009, 03:15:47 PM »

I miss him around these parts.
His contributions were excellent. I hope he tunes in soon....

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** September 10, 2009, 03:20:16 PM »

He was on last Friday, PMd me to call him, he's still around, just busy working graveyard shift, been flooded 3 times this year, wife is ill, they can sure use our prayers.

Tim

myarmor · « **Reply #16 on:** September 10, 2009, 03:25:55 PM »

It's good to hear he is still around, but I am sorry to hear about his troubles

Tim if you will please send him and his family my best the next time you talk with him. I am afraid he cannot reach me at the previous number he use to and I don't know his, plus with the shift he must be working I would miss him anyway $:-\$
Thank You

briannmilewis · « **Reply #17 on:** September 10, 2009, 04:45:38 PM »

Quote from: myarmor on September 10, 2009, 03:04:47 PM

How are the Velocities with Lil-Gun though? I am not looking to Hot-Rod the little guy, my 223's do just fine in that direction, but I don't want 22Mag velocities either $:-\$

Although I have not clocked it, I would guess L'il Gun with a full case compressed load is likely giving you around 2400fps, the original max velocity when they invented the Hornet, with decent accuracy too. I think the Hornet is capable of sub-MOA with conscientious load development. It is no slouch, and plenty fast for anything out to 150 yards.

Here is Hodgdon's Load Data for L'il Gun...

Accurate 1680 is considered an all time top pick for near maximum Hornet loads too, and according to Lee's Modern Reloading Second Edition, that can give you 2500fps with a 35gr bullet at 41000CUP, to 2100fps with a 50gr pill at 42400 CUP. For a 35gr bullet, max velocity of 2800fps can be had with H110, a whole 11gr, at 41900 CUP.

FWIW

Dinny · « **Reply #18 on:** September 10, 2009, 05:57:52 PM »

Myarmor,
I have also used several hundred nickel-plated cases in reloading the Hornet with absolutely no problems. I believe H Lil Gun is about the best powder there is for the Hornet and also highly recommend RCBS X-dies.

They eliminate the tedious job of trimming the brass after they have been properly prepped the first time. The .22 Hornet made me a believer that they work.

Thanks, Dinny

briannmilewis · « **Reply #19 on:** September 10, 2009, 08:15:28 PM »

Quote from: dinny on September 10, 2009, 05:57:52 PM

Myarmor,
I have also used several hundred nickel-plated cases in reloading the Hornet with absolutely no problems. I believe H Lil Gun is about the best powder there is for the Hornet and also highly recommend RCBS X-dies. They eliminate the tedious job of trimming the brass after they have been properly prepped the first time. The .22 Hornet made me a believer that they work.

Thanks, Dinny

Can you elaborate on your brass prep, especially anything that stops the need to trim? Excuse my ignorance, but what are RCBS "X-dies" and what do they do for you? Sounds as though you may be onto something I have not seen anywhere else. Thx.

knight0334 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 11, 2009, 02:15:40 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on September 10, 2009, 05:10:36 AM

I've only used three flavors of nickle brass, 280, 30-06 and 45-70, all work fine for me, the only issue I've had was when necking up 30-06 brass to 338-06, first one split, thought maybe it was bad brass, second one did too, never wasted any more. $:-\$

Tim

Just guessing that might be due to the nickel not allowing a proper annealing. (if you annealed)

I tried necking up some nickeled brass once, annealed(attempted lol) or not - they split. Where as non-plated brass if annealed never had a problem, and the ones I didn't anneal I'd only get a few splitters.

After that experience I save plated brass for standard reloading, and if I do any necking up/down or wildcatting - plain brass is used.

myarmor · « **Reply #21 on:** September 11, 2009, 08:49:52 AM »

Brian thanks for poping the info up for me, I was going to visit it soon but have not had the time to do so

I have heard good things about the X dies but still heard you trim brass just not nearly as much as with normal dies, though I haven't used them.
Thanks for the tips Dinny, from what I keep seeing I agree about Lil-Gun. I believe I will try it first when I start loading for it.
I seem to remember that Remington case have greater case capacity than other brands from what I recall, so I will probably end up picking up some Nickel cases to try first.

What primers to start with?

Dinny · « **Reply #22 on:** September 11, 2009, 09:02:33 AM »

Quote from: myarmor on September 11, 2009, 08:49:52 AM

What primers to start with?

Remington #7 1/2 primers are my first choice

~Dinny

Woodser · « **Reply #23 on:** September 11, 2009, 10:18:11 AM »

Have been shooting a Hornet since the '70's in several rifles. It is my choice for varmiting around livestock, since it does not spook them as bad as the heavier cartidges. The farmers get a bit irate when their cows slam them into the fence when a shot is fired. Have used nickel and non-nickel brass and see very little difference in case life. Never seen any flake off, and also never seen any detrimental affect on dies. If you like them, use them.

Also owned a K Hornet for a while. The differences in velocity were minimal, 100 ft/sec at most, and unlike another poster, I saw much reduce case life in the K Hornet, even with annealing after fire forming. All in all, it was not worth it. I traded my K Hornet at a gun show to get it off my hands.

Fav powder for the Hornet is AA1680, hands down. Using a load that is slightly over max recommended by Accurate when it first brought out 1680, my Handi-Rifle SB1 shoots Sierra 45 gr. Hornets into 5/8-3/4" groups as long as I care to pull the trigger. I did have the trigger worked on by a smithy, however, as it was stiff as a board from NEF. I use an COAL of 1.775", CCI450 primers and Rem brass.

I have eliminated 138 groundhogs this summer with the Hornet so far, and only one miss, in high winds. I will never be without a Hornet in my arsenal.

briannmilewis · « **Reply #24 on:** September 11, 2009, 01:23:33 PM »

Woodser:

I can't tell off the top of my head what primer numbers are small rifle, or small pistol. I have used both, but I don't think they make too much of a difference in accuracy. The small pistol primers may make groups tighter, by a small margin.

Have you found anything different?

Dinny · « **Reply #25 on:** September 11, 2009, 01:34:57 PM »

Gentlemen,
I was offered some advice that I later proved true.

The Rem small pistol primers were too soft and sometimes perforated in the Hornet case for me. BTW, the loads were mild, middle-of-the-road H Lil Gun loads. I have also loaded the Hornet using CCI small rifle BR primers, they work fine but I don't think I was able to duplicate the accuracy of using the Rem 7 1/2s.

Thanks, Dinny

briannmilewis · « **Reply #26 on:** September 11, 2009, 04:46:08 PM »

Quote from: dinny on September 11, 2009, 01:34:57 PM

Gentlemen,
I was offered some advice that I later proved true. The Rem small pistol primers were too soft and sometimes perforated in the Hornet case for me. BTW, the loads were mild, middle-of-the-road H Lil Gun loads. I have also loaded the Hornet using CCI small rifle BR primers, they work fine but I don't think I was able to duplicate the accuracy of using the Rem 7 1/2s.

Thanks, Dinny

Dinny, even though I used a couple of hundred Small Pistol primers, I never had any issues. However, I did read that it can be dangerous as you described, and I stopped buying them as I figured I am new at this and there are many with so much more experience, I was not prepared to take any chances, and be safe, so I can shoot another day.