Nice Article on God & Guns

[Swampman]

http://www.frontline.org.za/articles/Faith%20and%20Firearms.htm

[torpedoman]

very good article, today's sheep firmly believe that their safety is not their responsibility but the duty of someone else to take care of.

[DDZ]

What do we really expect, when for years now children have been taught in our government run schools that guns are evil. Most college professors are Marxists that teach, we have no need for a citizenry to own arms. Our media preaches that guns are evil. Where do our children get the truth? Their parents can teach them, but if the parents have been indoctrinated with lies about gun ownership their children will be also.

 How many kids today will pick up a book like “Guns Crime and Freedom”, or “More Guns Less Crime” and read it.?  How many gun owners think that there is no other purpose for gun ownership except for hunting? Let alone non gun owners.  How many know, that gun ownership is a check against a government hell bent on controlling their lives and enslaving them?
If people are never told the truth how will they know the truth?  Our government run schools are doing a great job of indoctrinating the next generations so the future masses can be controlled and enslaved without much of a fight. 

[rockbilly]

I can only imagine where we would be if we surrendered our guns.

In my opinion the private ownership for firearms is one of the major contributing factors keeping America free.  Don’t let them be taken away!

[slim rem 7]

 the may get the remnant of what i kept...but my guns in steady hands now..
 i ll get one just by surprize before they get me..so one old fart for one capable enemy...
 i just hope im not related toim...the biggest factor with older folks like me is im never leaving my wife if i can help it...she sure couldn t follow me for ten min..in the wild ...so there it is...i ll be here when they come...i just gotta know when its time..

[Swampman]

Just like the Taliban, you'll never even know where the missle came from.

[BBF]

Not all countries need armed citizens to enjoy freedom IMO

[Brett]

Not all countries need armed citizens to enjoy freedom IMO

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion.   And you know what they say about opinions... They are like butt holes... everyone has one, some just stink worse than others.   

[351 power]

bff, we got to fight for our rights here too. don't wuss out

[BBF]

351:
It doesn't say in your profile if you are a Canuck or not. Judging by your post I presume you are. Contrary to some posters knowledge or opinion, Canadians are not disarmed.

Brett: Besides posters from Canada, we have Australians and possibly some from Scandinavia. I don't think any of them consider themselves not having freedom.

A good basic test for freedom is whether or not the barbed wire slopes inwards or you can l e a v e that country at will

[351 power]

bff i do live north of the border and i am very aware of the benefits of living here. but i'll never concede that this freedom is cheap or guarenteed.

[BBF]

351:
Neither do I and to the best of my knowledge I never posted anything that stated this.

[Empty Quiver]

Everyone is free... to do what they are allowed. I do not mean to pee on a Canadian by what I've said either.

 I grew up in Il. I thought everything was just fine regarding gun laws and most other laws for that matter. After 35 yrs as a resident I moved to In. I could not get over the difference a 19 mile driveeast meant for my personnel freedoms.

 Me, "what will I need to do to get the gun in the case?" owner " uh, pay me." Il. required a firearm owner ID card, which requires about the same amount of BS as a passport but pretty cheap, $5 I recall. Then you wait till the Gov releases funding to that dept to process the backed up requests. One to eight months later your good to go (YMMV). Now if its a handgun well cool your heels partner cause we gotta check you out again just as soon as that nics check is done.

You finally get that new shooter. Why yes sir some ammo would be a good idea. Hand over the FOID again. Cause well, you know we can't release any ammo to the bad guys, (lucky thing Il. doesn't sell to criminals otherwise crime would be rampant) and if we find your FOID number on a spent cartridge case at a crime scene you are so busted mister.

Live in Gary, In. and feel a little vulnerable with tonights reciepts in your pocket making the bank trip. No probleamo Mr. Hoosier tuck your SIG220 in its holster and carry on with the confidance you will not die without the opportunity to defend your life. Same trip through Harvy, Il. "Sorry sir that sharp stick in your pocket may poke an eye out we'll have to cite you." Handgun... are you serious, carry one? Get outta here fool, you think you are in one of the other 48 states that you can carry in?

It is harder to appreciate something you have never experienced. Once it is gone again it really hits home, I will NEVER move back to Il.

[BBF]

empty quiver
I never felt any pee from you coming my way. When you mentioned Illinois I do recall that license back in the 60's. Was there a cooling off law as well, like 48 hours or something. I can't recall

[powderman]

We go to ILL often and I cringe every time we cross the big wabash river into communist country. Used to live there too, grew up there, but I'll never live there again. We stop at the first visitors center, if on 64, and put my 38 in the trunk, where it is of course worthless should I need it. POWDERMAN. 

[jimster]

Freedom is in degrees I guess?  If some people feel free because they are allowed to have certain rifles or handguns under certain conditions,  I would say that is a conditioned,  IMO.  Being born into something like that might feel different than someone who has enjoyed putting a handgun in his pants and going to the store, and then have that taken away, while only certain officials with connections and criminals get to still enjoy the freedom of carrying one.

People do get to carry guns in Canada legally and everywhere else they are outlawed...it's just that some person or small group of people decide who gets to and who don't.  The designated "good guys" get to carry, the criminals carry anyway, and the masses of people do not get to defend themselves from either.  That does not sound real free to me.  In my mind,  only a free man can defend himself from both governments and criminals when things get rough. 

Anything else is freedom in various degrees.  Like a dog on a chain.  Giving him a long chain does not make him more free in my mind. 
I never liked the idea of a bunch of unarmed people in time of dire need.  A mass of people waiting for someone to save them sound pretty weak to me.
Opinons vary on all this though, on that I can agree.

[BBF]

jimster:
I agree that freedom can come in different forms and amounts.
BTW, I presume there are a large number of firearms in Canada that are not registered and will probably never be.
If I had a prohibited type which could not be passed on as an Estate why would I consider registering it.

 This is probably the main reason why the Govt keeps extending amnesty for registering firearms beyond the deadline for years now.

[jimster]

Yes BBF,  most certainly where they outlaw guns people will break those laws and keep them anyway.  I know I would.  It increases the "criminal" population so to speak.  Easy for government to create criminals I guess.

Freedom in various forms and amounts is what we have been experiencing in a lot of the States here.  We gained some ground on concealed carry in many states, but those freedoms are bought with money.  They have us finger printed and we pay a fee to get our permits, when in fact no free man should ned a permit of any kind.  If your broke and poor, you can't buy the freedom I guess.  Every country in the world decides in some fashion who can have guns and who can't and who are going to be the good guys and who won't be, right down to what countries can have nukes and which one can't.  A small group of people decide these things. Only difference is, some countries have more "good guys" than others I guess. 

[powderman]

BBF. What restrictions do you have up there??? Regs on rifles, shotguns, pistols, ammo??? All I've heard are rumors that Canada is not real gun friendly, especially handguns. POWDERMAN.