Author Topic: First Time with the .450 Marlin! (Read 1164 times)

alien319 · « **on:** September 05, 2009, 02:03:16 AM »

I shot my buddies, .450 Marlin for the first time yesterday! WOW! That thing was a blast! Literally. It had a good thump. It was in his Marlin 1895M. I was impressed with it. It was quite accurate I thought. I wasn't used to it at all and I was getting about 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards with it. He said that is his bear medicine. I said yes, it sure is. That is definitely a step up in power from the .45-70. Although the newer Buffalo Bore and others can create quite some power in the .45-70. I know this isn't about a Handi Rifle but it was a neat experience for me and I thought I would share with you folks here. You all are more friendly than most folks I deal with!

Brent

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** September 05, 2009, 05:09:17 AM »

Quote from: alien319 on September 05, 2009, 02:03:16 AM

That is definitely a step up in power from the .45-70. Although the newer Buffalo Bore and others can create quite some power in the .45-70.

Actually, loaded to levergun levels, the 45-70 is the equal to the 450M, in fact more than equal with BB ammo, their 45-70 ammo exceeds 450M ammo, and in a Handi you can go into Ruger level leaving the 450M trailing by a significant margin......and your shoulder wishing you hadn't!!!

Tim

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=171

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=150

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=172

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=151

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=153

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=154

alien319 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 05, 2009, 06:11:22 AM »

Yeah I guess I should have said standard .45-70 loads huh? Well those .45-70 magnum loads are something else from the looks of the velocities and energy! Thanks Tim.

BBF · « **Reply #3 on:** September 05, 2009, 06:59:57 AM »

Nobody shooting at you here but you might pack a shovel. At times it gets deep in here.

myarmor · « **Reply #4 on:** September 05, 2009, 04:37:39 PM »

I guess it's not really off topic, considering H&R did offer 450 Marlin barrels. Though I seem to remember they didn't have a very good track record though, plus supplies and loaded ammo were more expensive than the ol 45

-Aaron

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #5 on:** September 05, 2009, 05:54:36 PM »

Quote from: alien319 on September 05, 2009, 02:03:16 AM

That is definitely a step up in power from the .45-70.

Alien, I knew YOU were gonna get thumped as soon as you said that!

dk17hmr · « **Reply #6 on:** September 05, 2009, 08:11:08 PM »

I really like my 450 Marlin....so much that I sold my 45-70 barrels. It does have a bit of a thump with 325gr cast bullets at 2100fps and 425gr at 1700fps, it shoots pretty good though.

bart74 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 05, 2009, 10:31:11 PM »

that sure is some good shooting

LONGTOM · « **Reply #8 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:44:48 AM »

That is a good group.
Was this at 50 or 100 yds?

LONGTOM

alien319 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 06, 2009, 04:32:44 AM »

Quote from: bigvarmnt on September 05, 2009, 05:54:36 PM

Quote from: alien319 on September 05, 2009, 02:03:16 AM
That is definitely a step up in power from the .45-70.

Alien, I knew YOU were gonna get thumped as soon as you said that!

Yeah I know! Sorry! It's OK. I deserved it. But you have to admit, that with normal .45-70 loads and not with the higher power or premium loads the .450 Marlin is a step up in power. I still liked it and wouldn't mine having one!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** September 06, 2009, 05:00:47 AM »

That's why the 450M was developed, standard SAAMI 45-70 ammo had to be weak enough in case it finds its way into an old trapdoor rifle. PMC used to make a realtively inexpensive +P 45-70 ammo that matched the 450M, and it shoots real good in the Handi if you ever find any, sadly PMC went belly up and the new Korean PMC mfr doesn't offer it any more.

The list below shows the available 45-70 and 450 Marlin ammo in 2003.

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/450Marlin.htm

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,6701.msg68823.html#msg68823

450 Marlin
$20.21 350g @ 2100fps, 3428fpe (Hornady @ Midsouth)

.45-70
$41.54 250g @ 2200fps, 2687fpe, Barnes X Flat Nose (Conley)
$??.?? 300g @ 1810fps, 2182fpe (Remington @ Remington web site)
$20.39 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Winchester JHP, Natchez)
$20.60 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Federal, Natchez)
$29.81 300g @ 1880fps, 2355fpe (Winchester Partition Gold, Natchez)
$22.84 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, HP (Conley)
$44.66 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Barnes Original Flat Point (Conley)
$32.50 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Nosler Partition (Protected Point) (Conley)
$41.54 300g @ 2100fps, 2938fpe, Barnes X Flat Nose (Conley)
$25.08 350g @ 1970fps, 3017fpe, Hornady JFP (Conley)
$34.89 350g @ 1800fps, 2519fpe, BCSP (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$19.47 350g @ 2025fps, 3188fpe, PMC @CheaperThanDirt.com)
$39.99 350g @ 2150fps, 3593fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$24.99 400g @ 1250fps, 1388fpe (Black Hills @ Cabelas)
$44.66 400g @ 1900fps, 3207fpe, Barnes Original Flat Point (Conley)
$54.46 400g @ 1900fps, 3207fpe, Swift A-Frame Flat Point (Conley)
$12.99 405g @ 1350fps, 1639fpe (PMC @ Cabelas)
$18.99 405g @ 1100fps, 1088fpe (Ultramax @ Cabelas)
$22.50 405g @ 1325fps, 1579fpe, RNFP (Conley)
$18.99 405g @ 1330fps, 1590fpe (Remington @ Cabelas)
$24.50 405g @ Huh (Winchester @ Cascade Ammunition web site)
$35.57 405g @ 1700fps, 2600fpe, FPPE (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$22.99 405g @ 1900fps, 3247fpe, JSP (Conley)
$39.99 405g @ 2000fps, 3597fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$41.99 405g @ Huh (Obsolete Ammunition @ Cabelas)
$50.00 420g @ 1850fps, 3200fpe (Garrett)
$39.99 430g @ 1925fps, 3537fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$34.50 460g @ 1650fps, 2780fpe, HC (Corbon @ Corbon web site)
$41.99 500g @ Huh (Obsolete Ammunition @ Cabelas)
$52.99 500g @ 1625fps, 2931fpe (Buffalo Bore Ammo @ Cabelas)
$50.00 540g @ 1550fps, 2880fpe (Garrett)
$180.00 500g @ 1530fps, 2600fpe (Speer AGS Tungsten, Garrett)

dk17hmr · « **Reply #11 on:** September 06, 2009, 05:39:13 AM »

Quote from: LONGTOM on September 06, 2009, 12:44:48 AM

That is a good group.
Was this at 50 or 100 yds?

I want to say 75 yards....I honestly dont remember. Thats with the 425gr hardcast. I dont have any pics of the 325gr cast bullets but they do that plus a bit at 100 yards. My rifle wears a Nikon Prostaff 2-7x scope, which makes it a great combo for anything I want to shoot.

Casull · « **Reply #12 on:** September 06, 2009, 07:35:30 AM »

I know you fellows love the 45-70, but looking at that list, I see 3 loads where the 45-70 is virtually the same as the single load shown for the .450. Doesn't seem like the 45--70 is "leaving the 450M trailing by a significant margin".

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** September 06, 2009, 09:35:34 AM »

Read it againl!

Tim

Quote from: quickdtoo on September 05, 2009, 05:09:17 AM

.....and in a Handi you can go into Ruger level leaving the 450M trailing by a significant margin......

Tim

Casull · « **Reply #14 on:** September 06, 2009, 10:08:12 AM »

Quote

Read it againl!

Still reads the same.

Quote

.....and in a Handi you can go into Ruger level
leaving the 450M trailing by a significant margin......

Hmmm. Checked the Hodgon load data on line and found this:

Top loads:

.450 Marlin - 350 grain @ 2196 fps
400 grain @ 2023 fps

45-70 in lever action -
350 grain @ 2135 fps
400 grain @ 2002 fps

45-70 in "modern" rifle -
350 grain @ 2300 fps
400 grain @ 2108 fps

Sooo, in a lever action, the .450 Marlin is slightly more powerful than the 45-70, and in a "modern" rifle the 45-70 has a 104 fps advantage with the 350 grain bullet and a 85 fps advantage with the 400 grain bullet. Yep, about 100 fps is "a significant margin".

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** September 06, 2009, 10:40:30 AM »

Take a look at Barnes' data, 300gr at close to 2600fps.

Tim

http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/45-70RugerNo1Web.pdf

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #16 on:** September 06, 2009, 10:58:46 AM »

I see lots of info on loading a 45/70 up to and above 450 levels. Is there any reason I could not load a 450 down to 45/70 levels or up to Buffalo Bore levels? Or for that matter is there a semi custom outfit out there already doing it?

I find it amusing that within minutes of anyone posting a 450 Marlin purchase someone must inform that a 45/70 can indeed be loaded to or above that 450 Marlin. Those Buffalo Bore loads are anything but mainstream available and they aren't cheap either. Once you are at the bench does your arm know or care which dies are in the press?

Jump in and let me know if I'm missing some other angle here. For what it's worth I do have a 1895 in 45/70 and don't have a 450 Marlin, cause well you know, a 45/70 can do anything a 450 Marlin can.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** September 06, 2009, 11:13:59 AM »

Most of those here that have had a 450M H&R no longer have them largely due to the harsh factory loads, which probably has a lot to do with why H&R dumped the 450M rifle years ago and has discontinued the 450M accessory barrel, yet they still offer the 45-70 in four models, 2 Handis, an Ultra Hunter and the BC.

Tim

Casull · « **Reply #18 on:** September 06, 2009, 11:29:31 AM »

Well, I see you found a single source that makes your point. I also found an Alliant listed load for the .450 M at about 2400 fps (or less than 200 fps slower than Barnes info). And, that load IS safe in a lever action. So, I guess that if you want to load only a Barnes 300 grain in a Ruger #1, then you have a point. Although, I still don't think that 190 fps with a single bullet (and less in a similar gun) is "a significant margin".

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** September 06, 2009, 11:49:15 AM »

I shoot the Barnes load in my Ultra Hunter, no need for a Ruger, the 500S&W has a bigger case head and a SAAMI MAP of 60kpsi with top loads listed right around 52kpsi, is factory chambered in the H&R, so Ruger level loads in a 45-70 H&R aren't an issue for the rifle, but they certainly are for most shooters, and why most stick with upper trapdoor or low to mid levergun.

Tim

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #20 on:** September 06, 2009, 11:52:34 AM »

alien319, I knew what you were getting started as soon as I read it. You sure got it stirred up. Hope the last line of your first post holds up. Let me know which cartridge kills best. They both sound too painfull for me but I am a little interested in both. I may grow a pair..... someday.

myarmor · « **Reply #21 on:** September 06, 2009, 12:06:46 PM »

It seems to be debated a lot, and even if a 450 can't be loaded right up to the high 45-70 RUGER levels... not to mention that the 45-70 H&R BC has the nice (yet longer and heavier) advantage of a 32" barrel... the 450 is still a deadly and very useful cartridge for those that choose it. I don't see it as a useless cartridge by any means, seems like another good option for shooters wanting a high power 45 offering.
Just my 2 cents

alien319 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 06, 2009, 05:27:59 PM »

Haha, It will hold up BigVarmnt. You all are still great guys to chat with! Stirring it up certainly wasn't intentional but it's good to raise the blood pressure a bit! I think I would like the .45-70 better because 1: it is a historical rifle cartridge, 2: it has more factory loadings and 3: I enjoy straight wall cartridges! They are all good rounds.

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #23 on:** September 07, 2009, 08:50:46 AM »

alien, when you get your Handimans 45-70 or 44 mag, post a pic along with that 700 308 you have. Just for comparison. Bet that delivers the air mail.

brad925 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 07, 2009, 01:56:35 PM »

I have both a BC in 45/70 and an ultra in 450 marlin. I love them both and and don't find the recoil untolerable at all. As for accuracy i have shot on the big bore silluette range with the 450 and did very well. No complaints here.

alien319 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 07, 2009, 06:59:55 PM »

Bigvarmnt, I will do that! Here is an older pic of the Rem 700 in .308. It still had the Dick's Scope special that came with it, I upgraded to the Konus Pro M30 4.5-16x44 with is a great set of optics by the way.

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #26 on:** September 08, 2009, 06:24:52 AM »

Thanks alien, Nice rifle. That one will reach out there farther than the 450M.

alien319 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 08, 2009, 03:28:57 PM »

It sure will!!