460 S&W vs. 45-70

[BOOTYMONSTER]

theres probally no chance ill ever own a gun in either caliber , but im really fascinated by them . the 460 is very powerful and can shoot 454 and 45 ammo also . it has a very wide range of power and cowboy loads could even be used for small game (headshots) . the 45-70 kinda has a mystikal aspect about it . i get the imression for a reloader its potiental is unlimited from rabbits to big bears and even big african critters . i guess it would come down to if a person is a reloader or not . but i was wondering if a guy ever had a chance to get his dream gun in one of those calibers ....... what would yall recomend ?

thanks

[Mohawk]

Dream caliber? Both could be had for much less than a "fortune". What is your price range?

[45-70.gov]

and  what  about states where  the  45-70  is  too  long
or  they state  want  a pistol cartridge

and  you  have  a good ammo compatable hand gun
the  45-70 revolvers  are huge and expensive

do  they  make  a handi in 460??  i forget
if they don't  they need  to   they are around $300

also  in factory load   which is more powerful?
i know  460 factory specs  are for pistols
and  45-70  specs are for rifle

[Tiapan64]

about the only thing I have seen as far as pistols go for the 45-70 are the encore type closed breech stuff.  The 460 stuff is mostly from the revolver so it is kind of hard to make a direct comparison, but I did find one at handloads dot com. They are with different grain bullets. and from what I read on there....the ones for the 45-70 are not really for pistols so I don't know if I would try them.
For the .460
   40.7 gr H 110  2,080 fps 2.208"  Fed LRM  guest
16" Encore cut back for break. 5 shot 1" group @ 50 yds., 9 shots 50yds to 150 yds was 1.8" group. Zeroed @ 200yds., 50, 100,& 150yds grouped 2.5 in. high. @250 yds. 4 bullets droped 8.25", group was 3.9 in
 
For the 45-70

54.8 gr IMR 3031  1,850 fps n/a"  CCI LP  guest
My load is very near MAX for a Marlin 1895ss. There are loads on this page for the 45-70 that will cause you harm at best. Several loads for the "trap door" rifles on this web-page will get you killed. Buy a reloading manual before you get hurt. 

[quickdtoo]

Here's the BFR 45-70 info.

Tim

http://www.magnumresearch.com/bfr_fact.asp

[MePlat]

I've seen this type question on the 45/70 before.  Most will have an agenda to show that their favorite is the most powerful etc..
I have chronoed 430 gr Buffalo Bore loads from a 15 inch Encore at 1770 fps.
I have shot 550 gr cast at 1500 fps.
The 45/70 contender SSK barrels will get 1400 with 500 gr Hornadys.  This is with loads that JD says runs 28000 psi.
The Encore is much stronger.  It is chambered in 375 H&H mag and SSK will put the 458 Win Mag on them also the 458 Lott.
Now it is up to the individual to determine which is Big Daddy between the two.  I don't really know.
What will the 460 do in the same gun?

[quickdtoo]

Hornady lists their 200gr 460S&W ammo at 2200fps, I can only share what it does in rifle, 2875fps in a 20" H&R.

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?page=ballistics/popup&product_sku=9152

For comparison in weights available in the 45-70, Hodgdon lists 460S&W pistol data from a 10.743" barrel, 300gr XTP @2067fps and 360gr Cast Performance WLNGC @1919fps.

Tim

[MePlat]

I have come to basically ignore velocity readings from test barrels by the reloading companies and from factories.
This is due to many, many, many, many years experience.
I have Hornady Leverevolution ammo in 45/70 that lists 2050 fps and my Marlin 22 incher hits 1890.
Has anyone ever reached the 1900 that Hornady use to list for the 350 grainer in 500 S&W?
Has anyone ever reached the listed velocity of the 500 gr Hornady loads in a 83/8's S&W 500?  (I believe it is listed as 1425)
Granted few might but not across the board.
I don't recall seeing any actual chronoed loads for the 460 using similar weight bullets that I listed for the 45/70 through actual chroning of a standard Encore Barrel.
Not saying it won't but I've never seen any published and don't   know anyone that had done it.
So I don't know from actual experience.
If we take the 1770 fps of the 430 gr load in a 15 inch Encore 45/70 one would have to push the 360 gr 460 bullet slightly over 2100 fps to get the same momentum.
With a 550 in a 45/70 at 1500 the 460 with a 360 would have to be pushed 2290 fps to equal the momentum.

[mcwoodduck]

I have shot the BFR in Both 454 aqnd 45-70.
the 45-70 factory loads are based for a 20" barrel.
the 454 loads are for a 7.5" barrel.
the 454 loads were a lot more potant out of the hand gun.
the 45-70 had a lot more flash.
I wish we had a chrono set up.  but one of the guys walking the show has some 45-70 black powder loads.
we shot those out of the pistol and they were every bit of what the 454 was.  Black is an enplosive rathern than a propellenat.
If I were to get a Bigger than 44mag revolver I would get the 460 to gain the extra MPH.  

[quickdtoo]

Can't help ya with any of the pistol velocities, but the 45-70 LE ammo does real close to 2050fps in a 24" barrel, it was designed and tested in the XLR which has a 24" barrel, it does the about same in a 24" H&R SS Ultra Hunter.

Tim