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Author Topic: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?  (Read 635 times)

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Offline buddybelt

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357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« on: August 31, 2009, 02:39:51 PM »
Does anyone have a good explanation or a fix for my 357 mag handi having such a first shot deviation of 108/180 fps difference than the rest of my 5 shot groups?  This happens consistently and it doesn't matter what powder I'm using.  If I shoot a 5 shot group, my first shot is always slower than the rest and a little high. I shoot that five, then go and reload another five and come back and its the same thing. Seems to be a cold barrel thing. I love the gun but am bewildered by this.  I hope to use it for deer this fall with 180gr Hornady XTPs. Any thoughts?
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Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2009, 02:51:00 PM »
Have you tried 1 shot groups?  Is it the same for every shot with a cold barrel?  Is the lock up tight every time?  What about shooting with out the forend on the gun?  What powder are you using and what charge?  Have you gone through the FAQ's?  It's alot to read, but answers to questions ya don't even know about yet in there.  DP
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Handi's:22Shot, 22LR, 2-22Mag, 22Hornet, 5-223, 2-357Max, 44 mag, 2-45LC, 7-30 Waters, 7mm-08, 280, 25-06, 30-30, 30-30AI, 444Marlin, 45-70, AND 2-38-55s, 158 Topper 22 Hornet/20ga. combo;  Levers-Marlins:Two 357's, 44 mag, 4-30-30s, RC-Glenfields 36G-30A & XLR, 3-35 Rem, M-375, 2-444P's, 444SS, 308 MX, 338Marlin MXLR, 38-55 CB, 45-70 GS, XS7 22-250 and 7mm08;  BLR's:7mm08, 358Win;  Rossi: 3-357mag, 44mag, 2-454 Casull; Winchesters: 7-30 Waters, 45Colt Trapper; Bolt actions, too many;  22's, way too many.  Who says it's an addiction?

Offline petemi

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Re: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2009, 03:48:44 PM »
I think perhaps your problem is a clean bore.  Do you clean it after each shoot?  Don't clean it and try it.  All my rifles like a little crud.  I do too cause I'm lazy :D  Seriously, when I shot a lot of traditional muzzleloaders, I found they all shot better after the first shot or two.  A slightly fouled bore is tighter.

Pete
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Offline trotterlg

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Re: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2009, 05:05:03 PM »
I would probalby just put .2gr more powder in some, put an X on them with a Sharpie and call them 1st shot rounds.  Larry
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Offline blind ear

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Re: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2009, 05:09:04 PM »
Pete, that makes sence. I had a muzzle loader that drove me nuts until I gave up on accuracy and quit cleaning it. It grouped better after that.
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Offline briannmilewis

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Re: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2009, 06:56:18 PM »
My Hornet became very accurate but it was after 150 rounds thru it the first time it went to the range. I have also read a lot about not cleaning your rifle, there is many mixed ideas about this. I agree with leaving it cruddy and see how accurate it gets over time, then watch for it to become less accurate and then clean it.
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Offline Badnews Bob

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Re: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 11:22:36 PM »
I don't clean mine until it starts to shoot bad. And I aint real sure when that is. It always shoots pretty good.
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Offline buddybelt

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Re: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 02:46:23 AM »
Thanks for your replies.  The gun shoots pretty well, its just the first one is about an inch high. The rest are within an inch at 50 yards. I'm using Lil'gun powder 15 gr.
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Offline dpe.ahoy

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Re: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2009, 09:01:42 AM »
What weight bullet are you using?  LilGun is a slow powder for handguns and needs the pressure to give uniform velocity.  Check the Hodgdon sight and don't go lower than they list.  Their top load is still pretty low pressure compared to H-110/W296.  I use LilGun only in my 357's and have stepped it up using loads out of Handloader Mag.  DP
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RIP Oct 27, 2017

Handi's:22Shot, 22LR, 2-22Mag, 22Hornet, 5-223, 2-357Max, 44 mag, 2-45LC, 7-30 Waters, 7mm-08, 280, 25-06, 30-30, 30-30AI, 444Marlin, 45-70, AND 2-38-55s, 158 Topper 22 Hornet/20ga. combo;  Levers-Marlins:Two 357's, 44 mag, 4-30-30s, RC-Glenfields 36G-30A & XLR, 3-35 Rem, M-375, 2-444P's, 444SS, 308 MX, 338Marlin MXLR, 38-55 CB, 45-70 GS, XS7 22-250 and 7mm08;  BLR's:7mm08, 358Win;  Rossi: 3-357mag, 44mag, 2-454 Casull; Winchesters: 7-30 Waters, 45Colt Trapper; Bolt actions, too many;  22's, way too many.  Who says it's an addiction?

Offline buddybelt

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Re: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2009, 01:53:59 PM »
dpe.ahoy

I'm using 180gr hornady xtp/hp with 15gr of Lil Gun.  I had it out tonight and just put the chrony up and was shooting 3/4 inch groups at 50 yards.

Is there a web address for hornady mag?
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Offline briannmilewis

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Re: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 08:04:36 AM »
L'il Gun likes heavy bullets in the 357...have researched that one to death.
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Offline BrianB

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Re: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 10:59:16 AM »
That is strange.  I have shot 158gr XTP's over 16gr of Lil' Gun and got excellent groups in .357 Magnum.  I am now shooting 180gr XTP's over 17 gr of Lil' Gun in .360 Dan Wesson casings out of my Handi and getting consistent groups there as well. Could you possibly be holding it differently or placing the rifle on a rest differently?  That's about the only thing I can think of, especially when it is changing after just one shot.  Maybe sight-in for the first shot and and just shoot the deer once. :D
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Offline zoner

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Re: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2009, 12:32:42 PM »
i'm still not clear whether that first shot is from a clean barrel or a dirty barrel
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Offline buddybelt

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Re: 357 mag handi rifle first shot equals about 108 to 180 fps deviation ?
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2009, 02:43:05 PM »
Zoner,

It was from a dirty barrel. 

My biggest question is why would the chrony show that much of a difference in feet per second between the first shot and the other 4 in my 5 shot groups once the barrel has cooled down? After that initial shot in the first shot groups the deviation would go down to 29fps spread. 
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