Lincoln Quote

[ms]

Don't know if Abe was right or wrong, but if he had not done as he did, there would not be a United states of America as we know it today. We would have been a bunch of small countries just like europe not the nation we became. Right, Wrong, or indiffrent He made this country greater.

Never thought about it that way thanks.

[beerbelly]

He controls everything.

If that is true and I meet him, after the way he let my wife suffer with throat cancer I will cut the SOB.
                          Berrbelly

[Cabin4]

Lincoln was a criminal. The states had the right to seperate from the Union. The south fired on an occupying force that refused to leave. Lincoln sent troops into the south to kill & destroy anything in thier path including innocent men, women, childeren, their homes & towns.

All this talk about God had it come out this way so we could defeat Germany & Japan provides nothing more than cover work for Lincolns illegal activities and the illegal central government we now have. I suppose God was in favor of 600,000 troop fatalities and the unaccounted tens of thousands of civilian deaths. Rediculous justifications.

[Swampman]

If God wasn't in favor of it, it couldn't have happened.

Lincoln was just doing his job.  He did it well.  He was a genius.

Repeating commonly believed myths is ok if that's what you like.  After all that's what most folks do.

[Cabin4]

If God wasn't in favor of it, it couldn't have happened.

Lincoln was just doing his job.  He did it well.  He was a genius.

Repeating commonly believed myths is ok if that's what you like.  After all that's what most folks do.

I suppose Pol Pot, Stalin and Mosoalini were all just doing their jobs also.

What myths are you referring to? Is it the 600,000 plus deaths? Or is it that you don't beleive states have a right to seperate from an illegal Union?

[Swampman]

They don't anymore.

The Bible says if you sow a wind You'll reap a whirlwind.  We did & are.

[Cabin4]

They don't anymore.

The Bible says if you sow a wind You'll reap a whirlwind.  We did & are.

Lincoln never finished either! If you remember he was assassinated. Perhaps God had him put down because of his evil doings....If God was as directly involved as you say, then you must be open to this theory.

You never answered my questions. I know, they are hard to answer after your prior posts on this....

[Swampman]

Lincoln was predestined to do his job.  He knew before hand that God would take him.  He was finished.  If he'd lived reconstruction would have never happened.  The race riots of the 60s would have never happened.

I answered your questions.

[Cabin4]

Lincoln was predestined to do his job.  He knew before hand that God would take him.  He was finished.  If he'd lived reconstruction would have never happened.  The race riots of the 60s would have never happened.

I answered your questions.

No you did not answer the questions I raised for you. You just keep fantasizing about who Lincoln was, what he did and what he would have done after his death. How anyone can speculate that the race riots of the 1960's never would have happened if Lincoln lived through reconstruction is taking the fantasy a bit too far.

I think we would still like your answers to the myth issue you raised: What myths are you referring to? Is it the 600,000 plus deaths? Or is it that you don't believe states have a right to separate from an illegal Union?

Lincoln was a cold blooded killer that perpetrated more crimes against this country and its people than any president in history. Obviously all the admiration for this baboon is a clear case of the victors writing the history books.

[Cabin4]

Your reaching and stretching again TM7.

This is a narrow discussion about Lincoln. At least let Swamp explain himself first and answer the questions. Then you can come to Swamps aid and to defend Lincoln, his violations of the constitution, murder, illegal activities and the resulting communist movement he gave birth to. I know your salivating at the opportunity to defend those who destroy the constitution in the name of socialism & communism but please, just hang on bit longer. Okay?

[Cabin4]

TM7,

You obviously have me confused with someone else. I think both parties are horrible. I also believe we should not have any troops abroad. SO what the heck are talking about and what does this have to do with the questions are asked regarding Lincoln?

On the point about me supporting the southern confederate charter.... I never even said anything about that! Again if you can find me writing that, then point it out.

The subject here is Lincoln and his illegal actions. So try and maintain some focus, okay. The questions I posed above are about Lincoln and anyine can see them.They are for Swamp but if you would like to answer for him go ahead.

This thread may widen and get into the issues you want at which time I would like to understand your apologist views for Lincoln murderous rampage and illegal & unconstitutional actions and the resulting mess we have on our hands today. But the rampage about me supporting slavery and Britain is all speculation on your part. Again, let’s try and stick to the subject, maintain focus and try and hold the pchyco babble to a minimum.

Thanks,
 C4

[Cabin4]

TM7,

You obviously have me confused with someone else. I think both parties are horrible. I also believe we should not have any troops abroad. SO what the heck are talking about and what does this have to do with the questions are asked regarding Lincoln?Naw, I don't think so. I've read you synopsis from 911 onward, McCain-Pallin support, foreign genocidal wars, undieing Bush support, and other usurpations of liberty and the charters giving passes all around to these GOPers doing this last coup.


C4 Answer: Your fantisizing again TM7. I voted for McCain becasue the only other option was your beloved commy Obama. What you convientlty failed to point out was that I also said I hated McCain. Nice try.

On the point about me supporting the southern confederate charter.... I never even said anything about that! Again if you can find me writing that, then point it out. You claimed Lincoln was a war criminal and invaded southern states claiming succession as their cause. The basis for this succession was supremist maintenance of 'labor' laws in those states in a large part. You associated with this, whereas I gave you the option to acknowledge the foreign influences of this 3rd battle for North America. You must know the English were fully willing to come into the war in concert with the Confeds.


C4 Answer: Who cares. It has nothing to do with Lincoln's murdourus rampage and constitutional violations.

The subject here is Lincoln and his illegal actions. So try and maintain some focus, okay. The questions I posed above are about Lincoln and anyine can see them.They are for Swamp but if you would like to answer for him go ahead. So, what were his illegal actions, and could you being missing some background info?

This thread may widen and get into the issues you want at which time I would like to understand your apologist views for Lincoln murderous rampage and illegal & unconstitutional actions and the resulting mess we have on our hands today. But the rampage about me supporting slavery and Britain is all speculation on your part. Again, let’s try and stick to the subject, maintain focus and try and hold the pchyco babble to a minimum.Trust me, swampie and I are coming at this topic from completely different directions, and he can speak for himself, of course. Therefore, I'm just asking you to clarify some of your radical extreme views; for example calling Lincoln a war criminal, socialists, anti-constitutionalist, blood brother of the devil in the likes of other dictators. You seem to think that he was in total control and planned all this civil war era melee, but I say he was reacting best he could to outside pressures. yes, you cvould turn down the hysteronics quite abit.


C4 Answer: Lincoln should have let the southern states secede. It was within their constitutional right. Lincoln wanted to hold the Union together so the aftermath of that poor unconstitutional decision rests on his door step. Just because you and others at that time did not like some of the policies of the southern states does not give you license to violate their rights and the constitution. The south was a different country at that point and the results of their policies are their issue, not the north (remaining Union).

It best to stick to the subject TM7. If you like Lincoln and respect & support his actions, so be it. I happen to think the guy was a horrible power hungary violator and murderer. The facts stand with me on this on the 2 major undiputibule points at debate here: 1. 600,000 troop deaths and countless tens of thousands of civilians. 2. The south had the right to seperate. If your position is that these deaths never occured and the Norht had a right to prevent the seperation, put forth your argument. McCain and Palin have nothing to do with this, no matter how much you try.

[Skunk]

C4 Answer: Just because you and others at that time did not like some of the policies of the southern states...

I'm thinking that TM7 might be getting up there in age, but I seriously doubt he is that old.  

[Swampman]

A clergyman remarked to President Lincoln:

"I hope the Lord is on our side."

The President replied; "I am not at all concerned about that, for I know the Lord is always on the side of the right. But it is my constant anxiety and prayer that I and this nation should be on the Lord's side."

[Cabin4]

So first of all, where do you come off saying I supported Bush? Your nuts TM7. I suppose it was when I said "I wish a constitutional attorney would go see him". Or is it simply because I refuse to accept your theory that Bush was directly responsible for taking down the twin towers on 9-11? Somehow you call this support.

None of the other stuff you wrote has anything to do with the points that Swamp made about Lincoln myths as he put it. I asked him about that and all you do is side track this discussion with the price of milk and eggs.

I very curious why you are so adamant here. Why are you demanding I see these other aspects of Lincoln. Why don't you reconcile your hate of Bush who sent troops off shore with your love for Lincoln for ordering the killing of innocent Americans and violating the constitution! Over 600,000 troops and countless tens of thousands of innocent Americans wiped out and you call the guy a hero!

[Redtail1949]

Been reading all the post about the cause of the Civil War  and so on..

There were many reasons that war came one of the triggers was the so called "Compromise of 1850" dealing with the settlement of the land disputes and boundries after the U.S. Mexican War. One of the major issues involved in that was slavery and its application to the territories and States that were involved.

It brought the issue of Slavery to the forefront of the discussions. The Southern Sates had formed a government in January 1861 and South Carolina had succeeded from the Union along with 6 others with four more to follow. Jeff Davis was appointed provisional President in February until an election could be held. During February the President of the United States Buchanon refused to surrender the Federal Forts to the Succeeding Sates and the States took them by threat of force.

South Carolina Troops turned a Federal Suppluy ship back that was trying to resupply Ft. Sumpter.

March 1861 Lincoln took Office as President and immeadiately informed all that he had no intention of ending slavery in the States that currently had it but that he would not acccept the Succession of the Southern States. He further announced that he wanted to settle the issues without a War.

In April Lincoln openly announced that he was intending to resupply Ft. Sumpter and that he wanted no hostilities yet the Southern Commanders felt it was a trick and immeadiatly ask the Union Commander to Surrender without bloodshed. He refused and stated that he would but only after all supplies were exhausted.

On April 12, 1861 South Carolina Troops attacked the Union Held Ft. Sumpter and the Civil War began.

[Redtail1949]

Just a little more...I decended from a family of 13 boys 7 of them fought for the South (on was my GGGGrandfather captured and put in prison in Illinois were over 70% under his command died he was lucky and was exchanged in April 1863 and lived to fight another day) Three of his brothers died in the war and two others were terribly wounded , one was blinded and also lost an arm. The other had his legs blown away by a direct hit with a cannon ball.

The brothers that fought for the north faired no better four were killed and one was crippled. One died in a hospital of disease.

Needless to say that war devestated our family and the repercussions of it last to this day. I was raised on tales of the war and the GD Yankess and the Scum Carpetbaggers that invaded the  South after the war ended.

Abraham Lincoln sought to end the tradegey and was very aware that punishment of the South for that war would do nothing to heal the terrible wounds of the people. He truly knew that the South had suffered enough and was adament that no retailiation of the Southern People take place. Yet there were many who saw it differently and wanted the South to pay dearly. Yet lincoln held them a bay until he was assasinated. Then the North went all out to make the South pay and indeed they did. Land (in my own family was confiscated) good public servants were removed from office and replaced with self serving and corrupt Carpetbaggers. The stories go on forever.


The truth is that not one person on this board or in America that had family that either fought or lived during that time has not come through it untouched. Many of the things that we deal with today are a direct result of that war and the years after it.
Many of our closely held beliefs and even our character were a result of our families perceptions and lingering thoughts from that war.

Just sit down and think about it how maybe your family thought about it and maybee how they talked about it. Think of the laws of today and the racial tentions and so on. I have and I am always amazed to think that a war over 140 years ago still impacts my life.

[Cabin4]

Yet lincoln held them a bay until he was assasinated.

Since the south was forced back into the Union, Licoln did nothing more than law required. He was the president of ALL the people including the south.

I still think he was nothing more than a constitutional violator and murderer.

[Mohawk]

  Free will of man is hardly God's intervention.

[gypsyman]

Wasn't Lincoln in favor of sending all the slaves back to Africa??  gypsyman

[Fazak]

Russia had Stalin,..America had Lincoln.

[Yankee1]

Hi TM7
   I find your recollections of history to very accurate. I believe that the KKK were originaly called "The Golden Knights of the Round Table" and were a secret subversive group that was supposed to cause as much trouble as possible between the north and the south. The English formed this group.
Only the leadership knew of their purpose which was to prevent the country from joining back together again. England wanted this country back again. The book "The Creature from Jekyll Island" has an account of this. Although the book is about the Federal Reserve it contains a wealth of information about this countrys history.  I find these disscusions very interesting.
                                       Yankee1

[SHOOTALL]

if you read history you might notice that the war of 1812 was expensive and the debt was being forced on the South thru. taxes on raw materials . The South was in a position of enomic decline caused by the northen states forcing these taxes on them . The slave thing was politics plain and simple .

[Dee]

Errrrr... how did we get on to the "revolutionary war"?

"the war of northern aggression" is a period term.  The Civil War is a post war term.  I rarely use it.

Innocents died on both sides. 

"YOUR POST" #11

Errrrr... how did we get to speaking German or Japanese, "the war of northen agression" is a PERIOD TERM!

Get a flashlight Swampy. You keep bumping into YOURSELF!

[Cabin4]

Russia had Stalin,..America had Lincoln.

Agree & Perfect. Those that stand with Lincoln also stand with Stalin, knowingly or not.

[Dee]

Yes they do Cabin4, but if you really want to know about Lincoln, simply type in any search engine: Racist remarks by Abraham Lincoln.
After reading a few of those, you also wonder how history has been so distorted that the black man now holds him up as their savior. It truly is amazing to actually get to know the man Lincoln. He wasn't A racist in that period of time but, instead was THE racist in that period of time. AND! He felt the same way toward the Mexican, calling Mexico a land infested with MONGRELS. Hmmmmm

[nw_hunter]

Here's one of the better reads that I've found on the subject. I'll post an excerpt, but read it all. In fact, bookmark it and read it often.

http://www.sobran.com/articles/tyranny.shtml

How Tyranny Came to America

If Washington and Jefferson, Madison, and Hamilton could come back, the first thing they’d notice would be that the federal government now routinely assumes thousands of powers never assigned to it — powers never granted, never delegated, never enumerated. These were the words they used, and it’s a good idea for us to learn their language. They would say that we no longer live under the Constitution they wrote. And the Americans of a much later era — the period from Cleveland to Coolidge, for example — would say we no longer live even under the Constitution they inherited and amended.

I call the present system “Post–Constitutional America.” As I sometimes put it, the U.S. Constitution poses no serious threat to our form of government.

The Civil War, or the War Between the States if you like, resulted from the suspicion that the North meant to use the power of the Union to destroy the sovereignty of the Southern states. Whether or not that suspicion was justified, the war itself produced that very result. The South was subjugated and occupied like a conquered country. Its institutions were profoundly remade by the federal government; the United States of America was taking on the character of an extensive, and highly centralized, empire. Similar processes were under way in Europe, as small states were consolidated into large ones, setting the stage for the tyrannies and gigantic wars of the twentieth century.

Allowing the Southern states to go in peace was the most popular secessionist notion in the middle states. The majority of Maryland's political leaders favored peaceful  secession in 1861.

They were all arrested by Federal soldiers by order of from  Lincoln, who suspended the writ of habeas corpus.They were never permitted to assemble in the state legislature to even debate the issue of secession!

[SHOOTALL]

TM-7 check TEXAS before saying it ain't maybe not for all but maybe for some .

[Cabin4]

Succession ain't legal under the Constitution.
TM7

Wrong TM7,

Section 8  and Section 10 clearly give us guidance on the issue of Secession. Section 8 limits the power of congress and affords all other power to the states. Section 10 defines the Powers prohibited by the States. I don't see Secession listed so therefore secession is well within scope for as a states right.

Additionally, as documented in our Decleration Of Independance it states the following: Whenever any form of government becomes destructive, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government," said Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence. Just as a group has a right to form, so too does it have a right to disband, to subdivide itself, or withdraw from a larger unit.

Lincolns actions were illegal and secession by the southern states was perfectly legal. Linclon is responsable for over 600,000 troop deaths and countless tens of thousands of innocent civilian deaths under false pretext and massive violations of the constitution.

[ironglow]

Yankee;
  I must respectfully disagree..The "knights of the Round Table" is part of the Arthurian legend..nothing to do with the Klu Klux Klan. The history of the Klan is quite open and not any kind of secret.
  It was started by veterans of the Civil War, primarily Gen Nathan Bedford Forrest (whose famous quote on logistics lives today; "be there the firstest with the mostest").
  Frankly, I don't believe it was at it's formation, anything like what it came to be 50-60 years later. The most ugly stuff started long after it's original inception.
  To be fair, the founders had some good reasons to resist..the carpet baggers and scalawags were some very distasteful folks to deal with.
   Accounts of the klan history can be found all over the net..most in reputable sources..check this one:

http://afroamhistory.about.com/cs/kukluxklankkk/a/kukluxklan.htm