Author Topic: Update. 30-30 misfires. (Read 1138 times)

44 Man · « **on:** August 20, 2009, 06:55:52 AM »

Well, I'm cleaning up a lot of projects and I did some scope swapping to get what I wanted on each rifle. So that resulted in having to sight them all in again! Had fun with the 45-70 (I forgot how much it kicks!) and got that all set, and my Marlin 35 rem. When I picked up my trusty old topper 30-30 is when the problems began. When I first got this gun, it would missfire about half the time and I found the firing pin bent and binding in the housing. I straightened it and that solved my problems. But when I went to sight in this gun today, it returned to the old trick of not firing about half the time. Right after the first missfire, I checked that I was pulling the trigger all the way back. Then I checked the firing pin and it is moving freely in the receiver and the transfer bar is coming up just fine. It is showing very light firing pin strikes on the primer. I tried it with a couple of empty cases that I re-primed and it shot fine. I have no re-loads as I have never shot this enough to need the get set up for this caliber, but I want to now. Maybe there are harder primers on factory Rem and Win loads? Maybe I need a new hammer spring, it feels strong enough, but this gun is a 1977 Topper. Could the ejector be giving a little as the firing pin hits and cushioning the blow? Any good ideas out there? 44 Man

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2009, 07:07:18 AM »

Wolff Spring offers heavy hammer springs, that's the most likely culprit, they get weak over time. Their double coil have two coils, one on each side of the hammer, may work with modification if yours has a single coil.

Tim

http://www.gunsprings.com/RifleShotgun/HR_RsNF.html

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=565785

44 Man · « **Reply #2 on:** August 20, 2009, 10:07:09 AM »

Got my order in to Midway. Hope that does the trick.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #3 on:** August 20, 2009, 11:55:30 PM »

Let us know how everything works out!!

CW

44 Man · « **Reply #4 on:** August 29, 2009, 07:07:48 AM »

OK, I received the extra power mainspring and just got back in from installing it. I tried it with several different loads, wouldn't fire. Light firing pin strikes show on the primer. I made sure I held the trigger all the way back also, and the transfer bar has good contact with the firing pin. When I push the firing pin forward with a pen, it moves easily and projects out of the receiver about 3/16 of an inch. When hold the gun upright with an aluminum cleaning rod down the barrel, the impulse of the firing pin hitting the rod will bounce it up about 6 inches. I'm at a loss. I guess it might be time for a 'real' gunsmith to take over. I can't figure it out, it should work! 44 Man.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** August 29, 2009, 07:15:19 AM »

Drop a round in the chamber and place a straight edge across the chamber mouth, how much below the straight edge is the primer? Recessed/short primer cups? Have you cleaned the rim cut recently? If it's cut deep and had some debris build up keeping headspace to a minimum and you cleaned it good, you now have excess headspace. Just a couple possibilities.

The only way to check firing pin projection is to cock the hammer and hold the hammer while pulling and holding the trigger all the way to the rear, lower the hammer while holding the trigger, this will raise the t-bar and allow the hammer to push the firing pin forward, then measure the firing pin projection with the tail of a caliper, this has to be done with the barrel removed.

Tim

kf4ocv · « **Reply #6 on:** August 29, 2009, 07:26:48 AM »

I done a quick search on gunbroker.com as I knew there some small lot parts on there. I found a hammer, ejector lever and springs and pins, and trigger with springs. but no fring pin or hammer springs. Good luck be sure to post the outcome.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** August 29, 2009, 07:36:16 AM »

Brownell's and Numrich sell parts, I've bought lots from both.

Tim

44 Man · « **Reply #8 on:** August 29, 2009, 09:41:31 AM »

Thanks for the advice, no, I haven't cleaned the rim cut and this was both factory and reloaded ammo. I talked to my gunsmith about this. He says he has seen this before. IF someone had done and improper 'trigger job' and had shortened the engagment on the hammer sear, then you can get a 'bounce' from the the trigger when the hammer passes it, causing the transfer bar to not engage as it should. When you check everything, looking and moving things, it won't show up, just during the firing stroke. The cure is a new hammer, I have one on order. I have not done anything to this, bought it a few years ago and had this problem when I got it. But the firing pin was bent, and dragging on the frame. I trued it up and have had no problems since. Now it has suddenly started doing this. 44 Man

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** August 29, 2009, 09:53:36 AM »

Yes, too light of trigger pull can cause problems for the same reason as not following thru with trigger pull, the t-bar drops out of place too soon, it's been discussed before and one of the reasons why Perklo doesn't recommend going too light. But FWIW I've had a couple ~20oz triggers with no problems other than just being too light when shooting multiple rifles in one range setting, surprise shots when the previous rifle's trigger pull was a few pounds more!!

Tim

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #10 on:** August 30, 2009, 01:09:18 AM »

no expert on these guns but ran into simular problems with my tcs and mostly the culprid was to much sizing. push back the shoulder just a tad to far and they wouldnt fire. Neck size the brass and i never have a problem. I know your a very experinced loader but with the thin brass on a 3030 its real easy to size a bit to much.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2009, 02:08:57 AM »

I can attest that a light trigger pull will cause light firing pin strikes. I had the exact same thing. I tuned a trigger down to a real light pull. Try as I might, I could not get it to fire consistently. I had more misfires than I had good strikes. Even if I jabbed the trigger, it would some times not fire. The transfer bar would simply fall out of place before the hammer struck it. The best cure is a new hammer and then be careful about tuning it too light. Good Luck and Good Shooting

cwlongshot · « **Reply #12 on:** August 30, 2009, 02:19:58 AM »

I have had this once as well, too lite a trigger I mean. I was able to get it with out replacing parts.
Post up once you get the new parts installed and have a chance to shoot it.

Just a suggestion here, If you tinker while its apart, just concentrate on smoothing for a crisp trigger. be conscious of angles and squareness. Weight is secondary. People put too much importance on trigger weight. A smooth, crisp 4-5# trigger is easily manageable.

CW

zoner · « **Reply #13 on:** August 30, 2009, 02:26:51 AM »

i had a similar problem...bought a new hornet,did a trigger job @ 3.5 lbs pull....no misfires but wanted the trigger a little lighter,went to 3 lbs and had multiple misfires....so i ordered a new trigger and went back to 3.5 lbs,problem solved.My 357 goes bang every time and it's right at 3 lbs...go figure.Is it mechanical or is it me,don't know for sure. I just do what i need to do to make em work

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 30, 2009, 09:52:32 AM »

The holes drilled in the frame for your pins and the parts tolerances add up differently on different frames. That is why no one can tell you that a 3 pound pull is as low as you can go or a 2 pound pull is as low as you can go. Like CW said, get your trigger crisp and smooth, the pull is secondary. I will guarantee you if the pull is crisp and smooth, it will not feel as heavy as it really is. Good Luck and Good Shooting

44 Man · « **Reply #15 on:** September 12, 2009, 05:58:08 AM »

It's alive! It's alive!!! Ok, long story short, new hammer did not cure problem, but as I was putting it in, the upper portion of the t-bar fell out, so that really simplified what to try next. I ordered a new t-bar and spring from brownells on Quick's recomendation (what would we ever do without him!). Those came in Friday and this morning I put it all back together. (Yes! I did remember how it all went after leaving the parts loose in a bag all week!) It works just fine. So I went through new hammer spring, new hammer, new transfer bar, and t-bar spring. (I felt like I should have put in a new trigger also..... just because everything else was new, but didn't) Thanks to all who responded for your help and advice, My favorite Handi is back and working again!

I'm almost as happy about this as when I had a new Grandson last week. (number 28) Well, almost. 44 Man

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** September 12, 2009, 06:25:44 AM »

Congrats and double congrats!!!

Tim

petemi · « **Reply #17 on:** September 12, 2009, 06:28:40 AM »

Congratulations Super Grandpa on the new grandson and the repair. Give the whole family a hug from Patty and I. Man, I'm afraid to hold those tiny critters

Pete

wreckhog · « **Reply #18 on:** September 12, 2009, 07:40:29 AM »

28 grandkids? Whoa!

AtlLaw · « **Reply #19 on:** September 12, 2009, 07:46:53 AM »

congrats on the fix and the gran chil!

28 of 'em huh... Looks like nobody in your family shoots blanks!

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 13, 2009, 08:36:20 AM »

congrats !!

Not trying to hijack the thread but ...........
Richard this is a family based sight that new pic borders on porn